UKC

Anyone here used a running coach? What difference did it make?

In reply to Robyn Vacher:

I've participated in coached sessions and whilst I wouldn't claim to be a coach, I've led groups for structured sessions, speed work etc.

What are you trying to achieve?

In reply to Robyn Vacher:

I had a consistent running injury that a physio couldn't fix, as a last resort I tried a coach, who changed my running technique totally and now I run a fair bit.

Really it comes down to the question already asked, what is it you're looking to fix or change ?

In reply to Robyn Vacher:

I'd be wary.. There are some great coaches out there, many mates do it, but its also totally unregulated so there are lots of cowboys..

The 'qualifications' are a joke, I hold one, and mine was at least a qualification but it was just a box ticker for getting coaching jobs. I coach the XC team at a local University which I couldnt have done without it. But when people brag they are a qualified coach the qualification isn't worth the paper it's written on.

It's expensive though, you are probably looking at around £100 a month.

If you've plateaued or have issues getting consistent mileage I'd consider one, but if you are still improving I'd probably not.. But think about what you want, speak to them and get contact details for people they have coached.

In reply to Robyn Vacher:

Yes - I have a coach. They are there in person at most of the rep sessions I do (along with the rest of the training group also coached by the same person), and we communicate several times a week on top of that. They set 95% of my training and are a help for all of the reasons you might imagine. The best things being they stop me from over-doing it at times and are prefect to bounce ideas off. Oh and they do this for free in case you are interested, because they love the sport.
NB this is completely different to having an online coach who you will never meet and will just send you an online schedule and not ask for any feedback - beware!

In reply to Humperdink:

do you run for a good club though?

I ran for a club with no coaching.. and whilst I improved in the early years it was pretty hit and miss and I was very much self coached. Just through experience and chatting to as many coaches as possible I refined my training but wished I'd had some advice earlier.

However I see a few who crash under a coach as they don't understand the runner and their motivations.. I think you can spot a bad coach when they promise way too much too soon..

In reply to Robyn Vacher: i had a couple and they helped me a lot. However they both came with big reputations.

There are an awful lot of mediocre to rubbish coaches as well.. Maybe the thing to look at is that if it doesn't make sense then i would look again. Also you're clearly pretty 'raw' so if you haven't improved after 3 months look again.

What do you want to race and where do you live. I think for most 1 on 1 is unnecesary , if you live near a club thats successful, has form for being competitive and has a group interval session, start there.

In reply to Robyn Vacher:

Left right left right left right.

And repeat.

You're welcome)

I've used one when I did competitive athletics; I wouldn't bother for recreational stuff.

In reply to Robyn Vacher:

I've recently joined a club and while so far the actual running coaching has been omitted to "swing your arms like this" and blowing a whistle to signal the start and end of intervals, the mobility and stretching exercises at the beginning and end of a session are things I wouldn't have considered.

In reply to IainRUK:

I would say I do But my coach does not really coach within the club structure ie we don't meet down the club every Tuesday & Thursday like a lot of clubs. That set-up can also be poor with everyone in the club doing the same session (for 80 people of a huge ability range). I once went to a cub where this was the law as apparently if the faster runners did a different session it was "elitist". Consequently I joined an "elitist" club and ran much faster - I wonder why? I can't believe your club had no coaches - I'm not sure that's even legal these days (although depends upon your definition of a coach - is a leader in running fitness a coach?). There's a whole other discussion there about what makes a good coach but think that's for another time!

I was also mostly self-coached for the first few years of my serious running (although I did have a good athlete to bounce ideas off/ watch and learn) and did run some good times. I've run quicker working with my coach but I don't have the control data! Like everything I think you can only gain the full benefit of a good coach once you reach a certain level of commitment and have been doing that sport for a while. For beginners (climbing or running) you can get across the right way of doing things and give an indication of progression (mostly not too much too soon) but you can't get into advanced stuff because they are not ready for it. It also helps if you come into a sport young as that way you will more than likely join a "club" and start to be coached even if informally as a result.

Totally agree Re: bad coaches, some will make all sorts of promises! a good thing to look at is how many of the coaches runners are injured and how often?

In reply to DancingOnRock:

That's how it should be if you have recently joined. If you become more interested in progressing with your running then you should speak to someone 1:1 and discuss things in more detail and maybe even think about a specific training plan for a target race. On the other hand if you just go to the club training sessions and do them plus a bit of steady running on the side that's also fine!

In reply to Humperdink:

We didnt even have a formal training night.. We'd meet on Tuesdays in winter for hill reps, but that was it..

They now have some Leadership in running fitness, I think two, but still no formal sessions apart from with the kids.

In reply to humperdink:
i'm very curious as to which elitist club you run for. Does your coach only coach club members - mine had groups with people from a myriad of clubs

Incidentally I like your racing targets for the year I assume you've done a Nat XC before so you know how to do it

In reply to IainRUK and Humperdink:

I made enquiries about joining the club Iain is referring to back in 2006. I e-mailed the secretary about my intentions as I wanted to meet people through running having just returned to the area from overseas.

I got an e-mail back saying that they weren't interested in training sessions and the only time they met up was for races and people basically did their own training! Seemed like a very elitist ideology at the time to me and put me off club running.

I did eventually join the club for a year, but then left the area again. Haven't since bothered joining a club but I often wonder how much better I would have done with proper directed/targeted training sessions rather than just running as I felt, usually with a dog.

Without a time machine, guess I will never truely know what difference it would have made.

In reply to Humperdink:


Yes. I think I lost my train of thought there.

I meant that there are lots of aspects that a coach can add, not limited to running.

Also someone looking at your form, diet or helping with a plan. It's always good to get a second opinion or look at something in a different way.

I went to one of their Marathon clinics as well and picked up some ideas that I'd not considered or read about.

It can't hurt.

In reply to Thickhead:

There is finally a training coordinator and I think a weekly session..

It was strange for a long time training, like proper training, was almost against the ethos of the club, the club prided itself on being a fell running club and runs in the hills were enough, anything else was elitist.. it was strangely unelitist and not inclusive.

I even tried to run some training nights at the time but they refused to have them through the clubs insurance..

In north wales the best training club was Menai Track and Field, they had a good youth section so had good weekly track sessions. That taught me a fair bit about all the drills, stretching and planning a session. Tended to be shorter quicker stuff for the kids so not ideal but suited me well enough then.

I find drills and strides were a big add.. just learning how to plan a proper effort session, various dynamic stretches, drills, strides, a sufficient warm up, made a proper session much more enjoyable and beneficial. I saw a guy coaching kids/students in Texas and asked could I join in.. he was a great coach to watch. You could see he really cared about the kids long term fitness and health.

In reply to IainRUK:

Yeah... Inclusive (or lack of) would probably have been a better word than elitist.

Strange club really, especially given how popular and "famous" they are on the running scene, at least in that neck of the woods.

I think to get my times down from where I got I would have to have done more drills/speed work and a coach/club colleague to mentor that would have helped.

In reply to wbo:

Ah, now that would be telling! Its not really an elitist club (anyone can join and we have a range of abilities) - that was just meant as a tongue in cheek comment as one club I was at before didn't like faster runners doing something different to the slower runners and thought the faster runners were being "elitist". Its a typical track and field club with a strong middle/ long distance tradition.

As with your experience my coach works with folks from a number of clubs and I think if people are keen and show commitment then he'll work with most people.

Cheers Re: targets, I've had the pleasure of the Nat XC a couple of times already (including the snowy one in Sunderland the year before last). Target is to be a bit higher up this year so we'll see how it pans out.

In reply to IainRUK:

Doesn't sound great, unless they are in a remote area with very small membership then you sort of wonder why bother?! Looks like you did the best thing by joining another club.

In reply to Thickhead:

That does sound like a non-conventional set-up for a club, more like a set of experienced individuals who want to race under one banner or a group of non-social runners who don't want to pay the unattached EA levy at races! Joining a good club would have made a big difference both socially and fitness wise I'm afraid. Its a real shame that put you off clubs as in my experience they can be really good (although you might have to try a couple to find the right one for you).

In reply to Humperdink:
It has finally changed..

But yeah it was a banner to race under. There was and is enough to hold formal sessions. We did a hill reps night but I know a few thought we were a tad elitist..

Our idea was form maybe 3 groups and run the 6-8 mile group with 10 or so hill reps from 4 mins to 30 seconds at their pace. We'd do them what we'd call 'Kenyan style' where we'd run the recoveries briskly them hit hills hard.. It was a brutal session.. But it meant we were reluctant to form groups with slower runners. Some were fine with this but I know some weren't happy with our approach. We'd warm up and stretch and cool down in groups but I do think the actual efforts should be separated if it's that sort of route.. It is elitist but racing is elitist.. Ideally we'd have had an old coach on a bike with a whistle or something to motivate others but we had few willing to actually coach and not just run on the hills. Certainly I'd organise weekly track sessions and try to make them so we could all do them but I'd also be doing them and wouldn't say make my rests between mile reps longer to accommodate slower runners..

In reply to IainRUK:

We're running to time rather than distance. So if we do 4minute effort everyone covers a different distance, then for the one minute recovery everyone loops back onto the back marker and jogs together until the minute is up.

However, last night we did one 6minute effort at the end which really spread everyone out. That's with around one minute difference in paces. We had five groups of different abilities out on five different routes.

I think people have to accept that people have different abilities and it's not being elitist unless you call the groups 1, 2, 3... Or A, B, C... Maybe call them Ian's group and Neil's group etc.

In reply to DancingOnRock:

Yeah that can work.. when I used to train with the college/HS group we set groups.

I know I'm bad at sometimes running too quick with the faster guys, pushing my recovery and not finishing the session.. on the shorter quicker stuff you can get away with it but last night was 3 x 2 miles with UPenn's clubs runners and I had to back off them and run my own 2 miles with 1 other as the quicker group could hold 5-5:15 minute miles.. I can do one, even 2 miles at that if flat out but I can't complete a 10k load at that speed.

In reply to wbo:

Sorry, (bit slow on the uptake and don't get on here often), I also meant to say: if you have any advice for the national I'm more than willing to listen

In reply to wbo:

Interested in your view on "how to run the Nat XC".

In reply to Robyn Vacher: Honestly? Well I can fill it out later but cautiously aggressive would be my advice. For a top 50 place you don't need to be with the leaders, but you don't need to be outside the top hundred at the first bend especially if theres an early tricky section like Newark where you can't overtake, and will you to do a lot of work later.
In ye olde days it was 9 miles and i used to panic, go to slowly for the first lap and be going like a train in the last 3 but too far back. When it went down to 7,5 I think you can be aggressive all the way, and use the pace you'd normally use for a 5. Andrenaline and a lot of pain will get you though the last 2. It is really hard to come right though at the end, and not that many blow up. You need to treat it like a normal race and not just drift around

A better man than me said you needed to get stuck in a bit.

If it's at parli hill though ask someone else. I never mastered that course, and have really had some tough days there. 'The hardest race in Britain' - that just might be Parliament after a week of heavy rain.

In reply to wbo:

Well I don't seem to be a fast starter so tend to come through which works ok provided you don't get held up and then spend the race chasing as you suggest. Last weekends southerns at Brighton was a good example of this with guys who had gone off too fast actually walking up the hills on the third lap! Your right it is hard to come through right at the end and I think this is because at the front end everyone can and does pick it up over the last mile. I like Parly Hill but still haven't had a great run on it yet, I think because it is often wet, the mud there can be quite special!

In reply to Robyn Vacher: for Context, where approx, did you come - top 10, 20, 30. I just think it's urealistic to expect to make up a minute or more in the last mile or so, especially as the groups racing each other drag each other along, but you'll be working thro' alone. And you almost certainly will get held up.

My housemate was too 20 in the world cross and said the pace at the start of that was so fast he got the giggles.

I never ran well at Parly hill and hated it. I am too short and don't lope thro' the gloop. Won the team prize tho, but all that meant was I couldn't just go there and cruise, I had to try a bit

In reply to Robyn Vacher:

Hi Robyn Vacher. Good question. I was also thinking that would a running coach makes any differences in running. After going through “natrun.com.au” I came to know that those who are trained with a private coach performed much better and improved significantly more in several fitness categories than those who worked out alone.