UKC

Since the removal of the unsafe boulder previously used as a jump across to the Isolated Buttress at Harrison’s Rocks, The Harrison’s Rocks Management Group (HRMG) are in discussion about future access to the block and are asking for feedback on your views. As an interim measure a fixed rope has been put in place to provide access to the Isolated Buttress. Have you accessed the block using the current method with the rope down to the wedged boulder of Boulder Bridge Route, and up the other side? Do you have ideas on how future access to the block might work? What are your thoughts?

In reply to Sarah Cullen:
I definitely don't like the rope. It's very vunerable to being tampered with, possibly without the user knowing which could result in disaster.

My vote would be for either a bridge, or a jump - see below. OK it means that non climbers would be able to access the top of the buttress, but they already can access the tops of most of the rest of the rocks. The Niblick is a prime example where there have been BBQs etc.So would it really matter if non climbers accessed the top of Isolated Buttress?

The alternative would be to construct a concrete platform exactly where the now destroyed loose block used to be and re-instate the jump.

Of the two I favour the latter as it replicates, as closely as possible, what used to be there.

In reply to Trangia:

I think your last suggestion is best. Concrete replica of what used to be there.

In reply to Trangia:

PS. Hope people are also now doing that long and rambling old 2b/3a? traverse route to get to the top.

In reply to Sarah Cullen:
In terms of any modification e.g. concrete, I would be dead against it. The rocks should be allowed to fall down and change.

I would access the top of Isolated Buttress climbing on belay for the very easy chimney root, directly below the old jump. So climb the chimney on direct belay from a tree at the top, and top out onto Isolated Buttress, to set up top ropes.

In reply to jotunscope:


And how does a climber get down in that scenario since lowering off or abbing is not allowed ?

In reply to foxwood:

Err, down climb with the protection of a top-rope.

In reply to deacondeacon:


Which would involve leaving various slings and caribiners at the top!

In reply to Oceanrower:

No it wouldn't , you can use the same top rope he used to get up there.
The one on the crag side of the gap.

In reply to deacondeacon:

I must be being particularly dim today.

Let me see I've got this right.

To climb on the buttress, someone goes up this bridge and sets up topropes on the climbs they want to do.

Others then climb, say, Birchden Corner. Untie at the top, drop the rope back down for the next person and then joins the queue for the bridge route to downclimb. This will give his partner time to walk round the back of the buttress to join the queue to belay him on the downclimb.

(I am assuming there will be a queue as, on a busy day, there could easily be 8-10 people at any one time climbing simultaneously. There's often a short queue even with the step!)

In reply to Oceanrower:

Yep. In my eyes it's better than building a bridge, or leaving a fixed rope up there, just to reduce the length of queuing time.

In reply to deacondeacon:

I'd like to think you are right.

However, I strongly suspect that, rather than wait, people will just lower off between climbs and just downclimb at the end so they can retrieve gear.

In reply to Sarah Cullen:

I favour a simple bridge. Aren’t there many belay rings with wire back-ups cemented into the block ? So no need to worry too much about maintaining everything in a natural state or making replica blocks.

In reply to Oceanrower:



Yes, I think there's a real risk of the whole thing getting trashed, because a lot of climbers are both impatient and lazy. I wish something like the original could be restored. A bridge would be sad.

In reply to Sarah Cullen:

A rope bridge would probably have the least environmental impact (no need for concrete and less rock wear) so that would be my choice.

In reply to Sarah Cullen:

I think people should climb up

In reply to XXXX:

As mentioned above, climbing up isn't the problem, it's getting down again!

In reply to Oceanrower:

Climb down?

In reply to XXXX:

Good luck with that!

In reply to Oceanrower:

Well if it's too hard, you shouldn't be up there. Should we put a ladder on every rock pinnacle in the land? Napes Needle? Or just the ones on sandstone? The one at Stone Farm seems to manage just fine

In reply to XXXX:

Well, the Boulder Bridge Route is perfectly OK to reverse. The snag with recommending that as a solution is that you're bound to get big traffic jams with people trying to ascend and descend at the same time ...

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Queues my deter people but it may also spread the traffic across the crag. It's not exactly unknown to have to queue when climbing.

In reply to XXXX:

And, realistically, people just aren't going to bother. They'll just lower off.

In reply to Oceanrower:

That's the worry.

In reply to Oceanrower:

So take the bolts out. Soloing only. There is no need for concrete or bridges. It's a natural landscape, not a pleasure garden or a theme park.

In reply to XXXX:


Well said!
I climbed on southern sandstone 2-3 times a week for the first couple of years of climbing, and I'd say 3 out of 4 visits you'd see people treating the rock like shit. now climbing the same frequency but in the peak, it's a real rarity.
So what makes climbers down south worse with their rope work, behaviour and respect for the rock.
In fairly sure there was a debate on here a couple of years ago stating that it's necessary to police behaviour on the crags due to regular misuse

It's an isolated boulder, just because the escape is more difficult we shouldn't be succumbing to bridges for convenience.

In reply to deacondeacon:

I was only an occasional visitor but from what I saw the problem was lack of peer pressure. In the peak you would soon have people come and talk to you if you were following practices that were strongly advised against.

In reply to XXXX:


The problem is that I suspect people would then toprope from trees on the "mainland" by throwing a rope over the buttress. The very problem the bolts were placed to try and prevent & no I don't have a good solution.

In reply to XXXX:


Bolts out of the entire length of cliff ? that’s not going to happen – or the fandango of roping the gully. IB has 10 plus routes on it.

Harrisons is a bit of a theme park, with top rope eyelets glued in the entire length of cliff, ground levelled, matting, vegetation cleared, toilet block !

In reply to Removed UserArdverikie2:

There comes a point where climbers have to be responsible for their actions and those of others. If climbing cannot take place without the landscape being irreparably damaged, perhaps climbing should be banned as it is at many other sandstone crags.

Or maybe a permit system with only a limited amount issued per year, to locals and those who volunteer with conservation at the site.

Whatever, please don't build bridges or start concreting.

In reply to Jim Hamilton:

All of which are being done to desperately try and preserve the landscape for future generations. The only reason to have a bridge is to give access to the top of the boulder. The only reason to go there is for climbing, not even that. It is for people who aren't patient or skilled enough to get there on their own.

Must we destroy rare and special environmental features because we can't be bothered to wait in a queue?

In reply to XXXX:



Whilst, in principle, I agree with you, would this be the landscape that is an artificially planted forest, full of paths and sculptures, with a levelled base and a sodding great railway just tthe other side of a field surrounded by fencing?

In reply to XXXX:


You seem to have changed from not wanting a bridge because it might be an eyesore, to not wanting it as it would reduce climbing. Wouldn’t these discouraged climbers just increase traffic on other areas ?

In reply to Oceanrower:

Actually, my understanding is that much of the woodland is self-seeded and has been allowed to get out of control. It needs thinning drastically. Maybe the trees at the top of the isolated buttress could be removed at the same time as the bolts to stop people belaying from them.

Paths. Right. Yes it has paths. A bridge between the pinnacles on Crib Goch would go down well, after all Snowdonia has paths too.

A levelled base. You mean the matting? Again, right. To try and preserve things but is largely unnoticeable if maintained. A whole other level to replacing a whole boulder with concrete or a bridge.

The railway, that is at the bottom of the valley and has no impact on the rocks.

I will re-iterate my point and leave it at that, I think it's made and there's no point repeating myself. If a large part of the buttress has fallen off, then instead of replacing it with intrusive, man made structures of concrete, we should consider why it has fallen off in the first place. Lets think about how we can climb here, without damaging the place for everyone else.

If people can't be trusted to use ropes safely, hack all the trees back at the top and take all the bolts out. Make it a bouldering venue.

In reply to Jim Hamilton:
My primary concern is for the rocks, after all, they can't be replaced.

In reply to XXXX:

People have demonstarted quite thoroughly over decades that they can't be trusted to use ropes safely.
The sandstone code-of-conduct is both clear and far from onerous and still ignored by the great majority.

If it weren't for the rquirement for cutting down trees I'd be inclined to agree.