UKC

I hate it. It's a pubic hair on the toilet seat of the modern world.

It's user interface is appalling and counter-intuitive.

When I try to sync my iPhone I get so many warning about what I'm about to erase, I just cancel it. Why can't it keep what I've purchased on my phone and stick it on my computer and vice versa?

Absolute pile of shite, and from Apple, who seem to make everything else so easy and user friendly.

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

I'm guessing you've never used TIA Portal from Siemens.

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

Apple is for morons, period. The bigger picture is that by forcing you go through this it makes it much more likely you'll stay within Apples expensive Colditz style walled garden.

In reply to Indy:

Yes, and while I'm at it, why are all apps now only for iOS 7, which I can't download because it takes up too much room on my phone. I suppose if I sync it, I'll lose so much stuff I'll have enough room for iOS 7...

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

Well that or you'll upgrade.

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

I thought apple, just worked?

In reply to Indy:


That's not very nice now is it?


Chris

Sounds like the wailing of the dispossessed to me.

---sent from my iPad---

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

Are apple users allowed to use anything else besides iTunes?

In reply to Chris Craggs:

My experience of Apple users has tended over the years to support my stated view.

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:



I suspect you don't see the irony of Apples original 1984 superbowl advert.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

"I hate your laptop. I'm thick; I miss my Mac." - my girlfriend, February 2015.

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

No its not. Windows 8 is.

In reply to Indy:


Apple users? Not their kit then?


Chris

(sent from my MacBook Pro 15")

In reply to Chris Craggs:


The cheapest one of those is an eye-watering £1600 going up to a ludicrous £2000 plus options. What do you feel your getting over a a non-apple brand for that sort of money?

In reply to icnoble:


I like windows 8 (8.1) a lot. My experience with it is on a touch screen Dell laptop with an SSD. It's rock solid (no crashes or foibles at all in a whole year), boot time from cold is seconds and is backwards compatible with all the Windows software I've ever bought. And it runs new stuff lightning fast too.

Mrs moffatross's ipad doesn't get the same approval rating from her and it needs all sorts of weird and funky special white cables and connectors to do the simplest things.

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

If you're used to Outlook and Office, changing to Google Mail and Docs in a work environment has to be the one of the most traumatic experiences in your working life!!!
Utter and complete rubbish!!

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

I'm guessing you haven't used SPSS or EndNote, then.

Why are you syncing via iTunes rather than wirelessly? I'm not sure if I can recall ever plugging in my 2 year old iPhone other than to the charger (depressingly often, for sure)

b

In reply to FactorXXX:

Using Outlook and Office were the biggest time wasters in my last job. Google Mail & Docs are a breath of fresh air.

Just goes to show that one size doesn't fit all.

If you want a complete waste of an opportunity try Sharepoint: a dinosaur of a product using outdated methodologies which means it can't even do its basic role (document management) properly.

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

Why ho why can apple phones not talk to android phones via Bluetooth?

Is this deliberate?

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

I got given an ipod nano touch unfortunatley. Anyway it's ok to use when I'm in the gym. To avoid infecting any of my hardware with itunes I use this:
http://www.copytrans.net/
Easily transfers music to the ipod without itunes anywhere near my PC.

Boggy

In reply to Yanis Nayu:


Slightly off topic but, how did you sneak shite passed the "star machine" when shit obviously gets the full start treatment.

what other words can be snook passed the pissing, fart, bastard thing.

In reply to Yanis Nayu:
I'm with you. iTunes is about as friendly as a cornered rat.

You: I'd like to copy this song from my PC to my phone.
iTunes: I'm going to wipe your phone.

You: I'd like to delete this song from my PC.
iTunes: I'm going to wipe your phone. And your PC.

You: I'd like to add this song to my library.
iTunes: I'm going to wipe your phone. And your PC. And your iPod. Aren't I clever?

In reply to krikoman:

Like it - LOL.

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

I think Media Monkey works well, not that I've used it very much.

In reply to The Lemming:



What do you think :|

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

Er, has anyone mentioned Lotus Notes? Amongst myriad other sins, what other software has to have a separate standalone program to kill it when it won't close?!

In reply to ben b:



AARRRGGHHH!!!!! The worst thing is the racket Thomson/Reuters and Microsoft are running, making a version of one program obsolete once the IT department enforces upgrades for the other.

I keep on wasting money on new versions of endnote like there is no tomorrow, and every new version is shitter than its predecessor. Worst bloatware ever!

I am currently running endnote X7.01. I have no idea how the program is supposed to be used, but have eventually figured out ways to beat it....

SPSS is OK,

CB

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

You can access the file system on your phone easily enough, put it into itunes then sycn it all back to start fresh.

Theres a few free, and paid for apps to do it, Sharepod and ibrowse being two of them.

http://www.macroplant.com/downloads?_ga=1.33273150.1275252708.1423768032

http://lifehacker.com/5954309/how-to-transfer-everything-from-your-iphone-t...

You should then be able to update to ios 7 or 8 once youre plugged in, it only takes up too much space when you try and do it wirelessly.

HTH

In reply to cb294:

To be fair SPSS is ok, my understanding of stats isn't!

I agree with the Thomson/Reuters/MS cabal thing - it's a prolonged rort, in essence, and the software gets more and more unpleasant by the year

b

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Daily Mail reader probably

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

While iTunes is bloody awful it has a long way to go to be the worst software going: The sony mp3 player management software was awful on a whole new level. Lotus notes is utterly abysmal and a source of regular frustration but I'd like to nominate every blasted HMI on a Siemens touch screen, even the new ones look like they were programmed by a moron in visual basic v1.

In reply to krikoman:

MediaMonkey does work very well. On a PC...

It will talk to iThings (sadly, needing the Apple bloatware components to do so), and can untangle the iThing's file system obfuscation clusterf*ck, and pull all your media off the iThing, and save it all in a nice, orderly fashion.

Having created a sane media library, you can then choose which elements you want to sync to the iThing (with a simple tick-box selector), and then tell it to sync. And off it goes.

Then you can use MM as a UPnP media server, and get it to play music to UPnP renderers.

PS. I'm not dispossessed, as I have a 64GB iPad. Just it sits there doing nothing, as I much prefer my Hudls and £35 Android media box... Oh, and that is now running as a UPnP media server, using BubbleUPnP (£3.04 for four instances), and acting as a NAS using DroidNAS. Sadly, Windows won't talk to the NAS; one last hurdle that may be fixed by rooting.

In reply to Indy:


What is your opinion on bike owners? Any particular dislikes?

In reply to Reach>Talent:

I remember struggling with Sony crap software back in the days of mini discs, sonic stage I think. It was the devil incarnate compared to iTunes.

In reply to Chris Craggs:


But unfortunately true, at least in parts.

I am typing this from a MacPro, own an iPhone and a Macbook Pro, and have been using Macs since the times of the old SE cube. I really wish they would have stuck to their original user friendly and robust approach rather than integrate everything to the point it breaks. Problem is, they would probably have gone under. By putting style over substance they manage to recruit a fanbase of idiots that would probably buy ibog paper that can change its smoothness by voice command (and sends images to the NSA...), and are now incredibly successful.

I went to Munich to buy crampons on the day the last iphone was rolled out, and just off Marienplatz there were queues hundreds of meters long where people were standing in the rain for the privilege of buying the first, buggy version of a new bloody telephone!
On any other day, just go to your nearest iTemple (a.k.a. Apple Store) and then tell me the presentation and the customers there don´t remind you of some bizarre cult .

These guys ARE morons, and it is embarrassing to be associated with them even by just being a customer of the same company.

When I will move my lab I will have to start fresh, and it is really unlikely I will stick with Apple.

CB

In reply to Morgan Woods:


I had a friend ask for help with that. It was not a pleasant experience.

In reply to Reach>Talent:

What about WinZip? I've had the misfortune to buy the thing, something that 10 years ago used to work and was friendly is now totally incomprehensible. I think the marketing and coding departments have all swapped jobs.

In reply to Indy:


That takes the biscuit for idiotic comment of the week. I thought the dispossessed had grown out of all this "walled garden" wailing crap a few years ago, largely motivated by the proliferation of malware, ransomware, zombies and other crapware on less regulated platforms, and had realised that if someone wants to opt in to a more regulated device, that's their free choice.

Just out of interest, do you moan and wail that the computers and integrated SatNav within a new car are a "walled garden"?


I guess we move in different circles. I'm sat using my Mac to run entirely free and open source soft are, as are people in the building all around me. It's news to me that I'm in a walled garden, really it is. If I take my code and run it on the linux cluster downstairs is some prison guard going to come and shot me? Are Apple going to delete my code when I send it to a different machine?

Muppet.

Edit: Yes, iTunes does piss me off. Great thing is, I don't have to use it. I'd still rather use it than the software that came with my last MiniDisc player to "load" music files on to it. Vile crap.

In reply to cb294:

Frankly, I find it offensive when someone is calling a group of consumers names just because they own a particular brand of merchandise.

In reply to cb294:


The irony of course being that Apple and their loyal customers really won't give a shit.

I'm loving this thread - all Apple customers are morons!!! Good god you know them all? The millions and millions worldwide? How did you manage to interview them all, it must have taken ages? What test did you use to ascertain there intellectual ability, I'm seriously impressed!!

Did it ever occur to you that many people like Apple because they have more important things to worry about than their iTunes software. It does what it needs to do, end of. People are lazy. Me i'm looking for an iWife and iChildren so my entire life can be integrated onto the cloud and made much simpler.

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

This could have been a great thread, a nice idea and really engaging.

But within the first dozen words it became crass, nasty and just downright low. Why anyone needs to brand other people in such a childish way is beyond me.

I could think of many awful software packages that I use worse than iTunes but my engagement with this thread starts and stops with this post.

In reply to Father Noel Furlong and Sir Stefan:

I was not the poster who called all Apple users morons, kind of understandable seeing as I am one myself.

However, it is very hard to find another brand of consumer product that - at least for some fraction of its customers - has to a similar extent become a secular, ersatz religion. This is not just true since the advent of iEverything, already in the 90s and early 2000s there were Apple fan clubs putting on training events and shows (with their own equipment they had paid for, not Apple demo kit), trying to proselytize Windows users. They were not paid by Apple, FFS, but appeared to genuinely believe that it was for the greater good if more people bought Apple equipment.

These people ARE morons, and so is everyone who gets their self esteem from being among the first to buy a new product.

CB

In reply to cb294:

Rapha. I like Rapha a lot and own quite a bit of their kit, but they attract the religious zeal and also have many haters.

In reply to cb294:


Fair enough.


Not true. Loads of designer labels eg trainers carry the same level of loyalty. The difference with technology is it carries with it the novelty value of also being a toy. "What new amazing thing will they think of next?" - unlike other products which essentially do the same thing they always have done eg trainers.


Kinda harsh and judgemental. How do you know they get self esteem from being the first to buy the product? Maybe they buy it for all sorts of reasons, but hey you seem to have the answers.

In reply to cb294:

Sorry, if I got your previous post wrong.

With regard to your religious metaphor, there seem to be an anti-Apple religion too, and some followers of that sect are too fundamentalistic to my taste. Maybe they do not understand the fanboy-possession, but why refer to exorcism?

In reply to Father Noel Furlong:


Probably true, but then I wouldn´t know, as I buy clothing strictly according to "form follows function".


Granted, but then this is the pub forum. A bit of argument for the arguments sake is par for the course, and I am happy to take as I dish out.


Extrapolating from the Apple fanboys I have to suffer at the institute unlikely to be far off the truth.
Generally I believe there is a benefit in waiting until a new piece of kit has gone through its teething troubles. How long that will take will vary for different products. Apple used to be excellent in that respect, but on evidence of the last OS updates, no longer.
As part of my work I have to stay at the forefront of many different technological development (microscopy, genome engineering,...), but have to invest in the trouble shooting. Doing the same for consumer electronis is more likely to be simple vanity, unless you are, say, an app developer.


Of course, that´s why I am trying to get tenure as a professor!!!

CB

In reply to Sir Stefan:

No worries. Anti Apple exorcists are of course just as bad.

CB

In reply to The New NickB:

Bike and climbing kit is obviously completely different!

CB

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=+iTunes+shit

23.3 million hits the last time I looked...

In reply to cb294:

However, it is very hard to find another brand of consumer product that - at least for some fraction of its customers - has to a similar extent become a secular, ersatz religion.

An unbeliever! - Persecute. Kill the heretic!

In reply to captain paranoia:

Nice argument. Googling rose+shit gave 40.4 million hits...

In reply to The Lemming:

Of course they are. Most just don't know how to google an alternative.

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

Spotify. Why are you still 'buying' music?

D

In reply to Dauphin:

Can you get spotify in your car?

Have we established any actual alternatives to iTunes yet? I'd quite like something that I can just use to play through the music on my mac - I'm not using iTunes partly out of bloody-minded contrariness, and partly since I don't have an iPhone or iPod I need it to sync to

In reply to nufkin:


If you have a Mac with music on it that you want to play why would you not use iTunes? Just press the big 'Go' arrow - it is easy. You can Pause using the space bar too


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:


Reading some of the first page of 23.3 M hits, you do get the impression that iTunes does have some genuine issues. I particularly liked this page:

http://ok-cleek.com/blogs/?p=2124

[for the benefit of Sir Stefan: this is all a bit of fun, but with some basis in fact. iTunes is a piece of massive, megalomaniacal software].

In reply to captain paranoia:

I guess that's where I am doing wrong, I download the music and listen to it - period.

It synchs automatically to my phone and ipod so I don't do need to do any chuffing about with it, no issues, no hassles,


Chris

PS If I download it to the phone ore the ipod it still synchs - brilliant

In reply to Chris Craggs:

How? Why don't you get messages warning you how all the music you've legitimately bought is about to be lost by your temerity in wishing to sync your 'phone and computer?

In reply to Father Noel Furlong:

Well you can have it on yr phone or ipod, pretty sure it manages yr non Spotify music via the PC/PC/LINUX program.

D

In reply to captain paranoia:

It is especially important to read the comments on that link!

iTunes is shit, but it didn´t used to be. Version 3 or so was absolutely excellent, but our IT department includes itunes in its "managed" updates. so im am fukced. Anyway, Apple makes sure iTunes 3 wouldn´t be compatible with the current OS.

CB

In reply to Chris Craggs:


Well, I might have to if it turns out that there aren't any alternatives - it's a bit childish, but I was hoping for something that wouldn't try to make me part of the Appleverse

In reply to nufkin:

You have a Mac already - you are a fully signed up member!


Chris

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

I've never had any issues, 500+ albums at the last count, 70% copied to iTunes on a crappy old windoze laptop when someone bought me an iPod as a birthday present. Newer stuff uploaded on different machines, (most recently MacBook air) and some downloaded.

It all still there and all still works and syncs without problem (2 iPads, 2 iPhones, 1 MacBook, 1 crappy PC)

Must be something you are doing wrong!

(Typed on iPad)

In reply to butteredfrog:

Got similar experiences. Plus the ease of playing music from either gadget via the AirPort Express hardwired to my stereo set.

In reply to Sir Stefan:
Well, it's pretty clear from many user reports, and from comments in the technical press that many people DO have significant problems with itunes. And, on the other hand, there are reports from people like you and Chris who evidently find it seamless. And I believe both sets of reports.

So, the question is; why the different experiences? It's the same piece of software, so how does it work for some, and yet get in a complete shambles for others?

And no, you can't blame users for not understanding how it works. Not when you're a company who claims to make products 'that just work'. My suspicion is that iTunes gets into a confused state somehow, possibly caused by user actions with the UI. But it shouldn't be possible for the UI to allow it to get into such a confused state. The issue reported in the link I posted earlier, that of not finding a network store, and autonomously dropping back to a local store is a matter over 'over-Appling'; trying to be too bloody clever, but ending up being stupid. More sensible software would probably put up a warning dialogue to say it couldn't find the network store*, and asking the user to investigate, or give the option to specify another library. But because of Apple's nanny-ish "you don't need to worry your silly little head about complicated things like that, let clever Nanny Jobs look after it for you" approach, it drops over automatically, which results in a mess.

* MediaMonkey, for instance, will grey out library entries it cannot currently find, but it will not try to look elsewhere for them (actually, I think the Gold version does give that option), and it won't change the library database, so that when the location re-appears, the tracks are available again immediately. The downside of this is that, if you move your entire library to a new location, it won't automatically update the library. But there's an add-on script to do that.

I sorted out the iTunes library for a mate who isn't very computer-savvy, and it was a shambles, with duplicated tracks and artwork all over the place. Then add in the issue of his iPod, containing m4a transcoded versions of the tracks, and it was quite a struggle to get back to the original files (avoiding the transcoded tracks). I installed MediaMonkey for him, and he's had no further music library issues. He even managed to install it for himself on a new laptop he bought, and transfer the library... For him, MediaMonkey 'just works', and he's got rid of all his Apple products; he downloads music from Amazon, and rips CDs straight into his MM library.

But if you use an Apple, you can't run MM...

In reply to captain paranoia:


And my hopes had been slowly rising while reading all that

In reply to nufkin:

Sorry; I did give a spoiler earlier in the thread...

But, if you want an alternative to iTunes on a Mac, then googling "iTunes alternative" does bring a lot up. I recall looking before, but I can't remember any of the stand-out programs. And I don't have a Mac. Well, I do, but it only has a 20MB HDD, being a Mac SE...

Anyway, as Chris says, iTunes is perfect, so why on earth would you want anything different?

Repeat after me: "one of us. One of us. ONE OF US".

In reply to moffatross:


Strangely I agree. My four year old laptop with windows 8.1 and upgraded with an SSD is much faster than my new iPad.