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A question for any teachers and student teachers out there.
I have recently received an unconditional offer to study for a PGDE (Secondary) at Strathclyde University. I'm 37 with a wife and two kids. I climb and mountain bike as often as I can just now but not as much as I'd like to - only 3 winter routes so far this season!!!
I'm keen to teach for a variety of reasons and I've obviously done plenty of research into the profession and spent time observing in schools etc. It is obvious from this that teachers work extremely hard and often undertake long hours to complete all their planning and marking. I would be keen to hear the views of any teachers on here with regards to their work/life balance. Can you carry out the role effectively and still have time for a quality family life whilst maintaining a climbing (and mountain biking!) addiction. I know this is quite a subjective issue but I'd be keen to hear people's views.
I have recently received an unconditional offer to study for a PGDE (Secondary) at Strathclyde University. I'm 37 with a wife and two kids. I climb and mountain bike as often as I can just now but not as much as I'd like to - only 3 winter routes so far this season!!!
I'm keen to teach for a variety of reasons and I've obviously done plenty of research into the profession and spent time observing in schools etc. It is obvious from this that teachers work extremely hard and often undertake long hours to complete all their planning and marking. I would be keen to hear the views of any teachers on here with regards to their work/life balance. Can you carry out the role effectively and still have time for a quality family life whilst maintaining a climbing (and mountain biking!) addiction. I know this is quite a subjective issue but I'd be keen to hear people's views.
In reply to BofA Matt:
I'm a primary teacher, though a relatively new one, and have no family. You get weekends off, and I try to limit weekend work to sunday night. i think you should manage as much on the weekends as you would with any other job. i do stay 9 hours a day in school though usually, and have some stuff to do in the house as well. sometimes less though. I'm enjoying it so far, though only got a few months under the belt.
I will say that the pgce (did mine in wales) is pretty intense. don't expect to get too much done once placements start. I tried to allow myself one work free day a week, which for you I imagine will have to go to the family. and that does mean a LOT of work the rest of the time. midweek i was basically just stopping to eat and sleep (a bit!). it is only a year though, and less than that is on placement.
good luck!
I'm a primary teacher, though a relatively new one, and have no family. You get weekends off, and I try to limit weekend work to sunday night. i think you should manage as much on the weekends as you would with any other job. i do stay 9 hours a day in school though usually, and have some stuff to do in the house as well. sometimes less though. I'm enjoying it so far, though only got a few months under the belt.
I will say that the pgce (did mine in wales) is pretty intense. don't expect to get too much done once placements start. I tried to allow myself one work free day a week, which for you I imagine will have to go to the family. and that does mean a LOT of work the rest of the time. midweek i was basically just stopping to eat and sleep (a bit!). it is only a year though, and less than that is on placement.
good luck!
1
In reply to Lloydfletch:
Thanks for that mate. I fully expect the PGDE to be pretty intense and imagine it can consume most of your free time. I just hope that after the course and maybe the first year or so of actual teaching it is possible to maintain a decent quality of life outside of work that is sustainable for the long term.
Thanks for that mate. I fully expect the PGDE to be pretty intense and imagine it can consume most of your free time. I just hope that after the course and maybe the first year or so of actual teaching it is possible to maintain a decent quality of life outside of work that is sustainable for the long term.
In reply to BofA Matt:
Hello Matt,
I have been a secondary school Geography teacher in London for 5 years. 3 years in state school and the last 2 in private. At the end of this year I am leaving the profession, moving away from London, taking a Master's and hopefully beginning an academic career. I love my subject but really don't like the job. I am quite jaded by the profession so please take that into account when reading my thoughts.
I find the work life balance a bit lopsided being a teacher. You are always putting on a performance and cannot have an 'off' day. I find that your work is never complete and you could always do a better job of what ever you have completed. Some people like this aspect of the job and rise to it but it just doesn't suit my personality. I find it impossible to switch off because I am always thinking about the next morning and what needs doing. I find myself pulled in too many directions at work so I can never complete something as satisfactorily as I would like.
I have a wife and find it a challenge balancing time with her, work and my climbing. When I worked a 9 to 5 I could get into a good rhythm, found it much easier to have weekend's away and was 'there' in the evening. I find teaching too difficult to get that rhythm back, the term time is too intense to do anything other than the job properly and then I (but this is me) cannot switch off at the holidays.
Cheers,
Max
Hello Matt,
I have been a secondary school Geography teacher in London for 5 years. 3 years in state school and the last 2 in private. At the end of this year I am leaving the profession, moving away from London, taking a Master's and hopefully beginning an academic career. I love my subject but really don't like the job. I am quite jaded by the profession so please take that into account when reading my thoughts.
I find the work life balance a bit lopsided being a teacher. You are always putting on a performance and cannot have an 'off' day. I find that your work is never complete and you could always do a better job of what ever you have completed. Some people like this aspect of the job and rise to it but it just doesn't suit my personality. I find it impossible to switch off because I am always thinking about the next morning and what needs doing. I find myself pulled in too many directions at work so I can never complete something as satisfactorily as I would like.
I have a wife and find it a challenge balancing time with her, work and my climbing. When I worked a 9 to 5 I could get into a good rhythm, found it much easier to have weekend's away and was 'there' in the evening. I find teaching too difficult to get that rhythm back, the term time is too intense to do anything other than the job properly and then I (but this is me) cannot switch off at the holidays.
Cheers,
Max
1
In reply to BofA Matt:
I'm in my eleventh year of teaching and still love the classroom part of the job (the actual teaching) but the interference from government, pointless paperwork and the growing micromanagement by a clueless SLT are slowly wearing me down.
In terms of a work/life balance there are busy times during the year, where I spend the odd Sunday catching up with work, but on the whole I tend to treat it like an 8 - 4 job. You will hear horror stories about people who spend every evening planning and marking (which you do tend to do in the first year) but most weeks I work about forty hours. In a busy week, or if I've been a bit lazy the previous week, this could go up to fifty. However, there are also quiet times during the year when I will get away with less - normally when Year 11 have left.
I'm in my eleventh year of teaching and still love the classroom part of the job (the actual teaching) but the interference from government, pointless paperwork and the growing micromanagement by a clueless SLT are slowly wearing me down.
In terms of a work/life balance there are busy times during the year, where I spend the odd Sunday catching up with work, but on the whole I tend to treat it like an 8 - 4 job. You will hear horror stories about people who spend every evening planning and marking (which you do tend to do in the first year) but most weeks I work about forty hours. In a busy week, or if I've been a bit lazy the previous week, this could go up to fifty. However, there are also quiet times during the year when I will get away with less - normally when Year 11 have left.
2
In reply to BofA Matt:
It's very hard but not impossible to create a decent balance but it does very much depend on whether or not your management team are a bunch of clueless career obsessed cocks living in fear of Ofsted (common) or whether they are reasonable people (rare). Management fear for themselves ( not normally connected to providing better education for the kids you're teaching) is common and leads to all sorts of stupid extra and unnecessary work
It's very hard but not impossible to create a decent balance but it does very much depend on whether or not your management team are a bunch of clueless career obsessed cocks living in fear of Ofsted (common) or whether they are reasonable people (rare). Management fear for themselves ( not normally connected to providing better education for the kids you're teaching) is common and leads to all sorts of stupid extra and unnecessary work
7
In reply to BofA Matt:
Just to balance my post above, I should mention that I have several friends who have left the profession in the last couple of years as they have become disillusioned with the job or have suffered from work-related stress. I've just had a quick think and I can count eight members of staff who have left with stress in the last two years and six who have left to pursue other careers outside teaching.
So not all good...
Just to balance my post above, I should mention that I have several friends who have left the profession in the last couple of years as they have become disillusioned with the job or have suffered from work-related stress. I've just had a quick think and I can count eight members of staff who have left with stress in the last two years and six who have left to pursue other careers outside teaching.
So not all good...
3
In reply to All:
Thanks folks - it's great to get some different views on this. Keep them coming!
Thanks folks - it's great to get some different views on this. Keep them coming!
Post edited at 15:11
In reply to BofA Matt:
Have you thought about teaching/looking after nursery children instead?
You can earn around 14k and you won't have the home marking and associated paper work.
Any teachers I know or have known seem to work a lot of evenings during the week.
If you're very organised or habitually get up at five o'clock, you could have more free time.
Have you thought about teaching/looking after nursery children instead?
You can earn around 14k and you won't have the home marking and associated paper work.
Any teachers I know or have known seem to work a lot of evenings during the week.
If you're very organised or habitually get up at five o'clock, you could have more free time.
Post edited at 15:28
In reply to BofA Matt:
How about teaching part time? that is the only way I can ever see myself teaching long term (I'm thinking of doing PGCE next year). Is it possible/realistic to become a newly qualified teacher and then move to part time? The lower salary would be fine with me.
Ben
How about teaching part time? that is the only way I can ever see myself teaching long term (I'm thinking of doing PGCE next year). Is it possible/realistic to become a newly qualified teacher and then move to part time? The lower salary would be fine with me.
Ben
In reply to BofA Matt:
If you want to be a teacher you have to commit totally or you will be discontented. The holidays are long but that's all the time you'll have for climbing . Your standards will drop because you won't be able to train hard enough. Your family can't be expected to take second place to a climbing obsession and they won't be happy if you dash off as soon as you have a space in your diary. You don't have to relinquish your enthusiasm but you'll just have to climb easier on the odd days you are allowed to climb.
I've just finished my teaching career and I'm out and about a lot more now. Trouble is I can't crank it like I could 30 years ago. Running helped feed the rat whilst I was working so it might work for you.
I don't regret anything, though. If you can do that commitment thing then teaching is the best job in the world.
It is vital that you don't give up climbing completely. You have to give yourself in teaching, so if you let your spirit wither there'll be nothing of a self to give. And when the going gets tough you can always go to that place where you're a climber and take solace there. And, who knows, take your pupils too. They will be ever grateful. I am to the teachers who took me on my first climbs.
If you want to be a teacher you have to commit totally or you will be discontented. The holidays are long but that's all the time you'll have for climbing . Your standards will drop because you won't be able to train hard enough. Your family can't be expected to take second place to a climbing obsession and they won't be happy if you dash off as soon as you have a space in your diary. You don't have to relinquish your enthusiasm but you'll just have to climb easier on the odd days you are allowed to climb.
I've just finished my teaching career and I'm out and about a lot more now. Trouble is I can't crank it like I could 30 years ago. Running helped feed the rat whilst I was working so it might work for you.
I don't regret anything, though. If you can do that commitment thing then teaching is the best job in the world.
It is vital that you don't give up climbing completely. You have to give yourself in teaching, so if you let your spirit wither there'll be nothing of a self to give. And when the going gets tough you can always go to that place where you're a climber and take solace there. And, who knows, take your pupils too. They will be ever grateful. I am to the teachers who took me on my first climbs.
4
In reply to Morty:
Our management have decided we aren't busy enough when year 11 leave and give us extra pointless tasks to do.
Our management have decided we aren't busy enough when year 11 leave and give us extra pointless tasks to do.
1
In reply to BofA Matt:
I reckon you can manage a work/family balance or a work/play balance, but to teach and do all 3 properly might be tricky.
How understanding is your wife and how old are your kids?
I reckon you can manage a work/family balance or a work/play balance, but to teach and do all 3 properly might be tricky.
How understanding is your wife and how old are your kids?
2
In reply to marsbar:
I would say that my wife is moderately understanding! Two girls - 6 and 2. Any job requires negotiation as well as give and take to sustain a climbing lifestyle. As I say, I am well prepared for hard work and longish hours. I couldn't however give up climbing term time - that would be an end to my winter climbing which would not be good!
I would say that my wife is moderately understanding! Two girls - 6 and 2. Any job requires negotiation as well as give and take to sustain a climbing lifestyle. As I say, I am well prepared for hard work and longish hours. I couldn't however give up climbing term time - that would be an end to my winter climbing which would not be good!
In reply to BofA Matt:
I've just retired, but I can still remember my first year(s) - if you want to do the job properly in a secondary school, you can forget any idea of an eight hour day, or free weekends. You'll be marking and planning for at least three to four hours per night, plus at least one day of the weekend. It's a constant grind, hard graft, and you'll never get everything finished. Having said that, I knew what to expect and was under no illusions, and I wouldn't have stuck it out for 33 years if I hadn't loved it.
JW
I've just retired, but I can still remember my first year(s) - if you want to do the job properly in a secondary school, you can forget any idea of an eight hour day, or free weekends. You'll be marking and planning for at least three to four hours per night, plus at least one day of the weekend. It's a constant grind, hard graft, and you'll never get everything finished. Having said that, I knew what to expect and was under no illusions, and I wouldn't have stuck it out for 33 years if I hadn't loved it.
JW
1
In reply to BofA Matt:
i entered secondary teaching at your age. For me it is the best job I have had; very rarely have a feeling of 'dread' going into work in the morning any more.
The workload is hard, especially at the start for the first 2-3 years (I hated it for first 2-3 years). I would say that you will not know if it is a long-term option until after 2-3 years so I would give it a chance until then. It gets a LOT easier as you go on and gain confidence. Whether you enjoy it long term, IMHO, depends massively on whether you can relate/empathise/understand etc. the pupils you teach. This takes time and a maybe a change of some beliefs that you may hold (it did with me).
As for the workload, IMHO, it comes in waves, sometimes mad busy, sometimes less so. It gets easier and less stressful to deal with with experience. I think that success in a teaching career is being able to achieve a balance for yourself and your situation. One thing to bear in mind is that you will NEVER finish all the work that you have to do and taking an objective view on this and not beating yourself up about it is a good skill to have.
Obviously the particular school/management comes into play a lot in the above, but the general principles are sound I think.
Happy to discuss via PM, Cheers, Si
i entered secondary teaching at your age. For me it is the best job I have had; very rarely have a feeling of 'dread' going into work in the morning any more.
The workload is hard, especially at the start for the first 2-3 years (I hated it for first 2-3 years). I would say that you will not know if it is a long-term option until after 2-3 years so I would give it a chance until then. It gets a LOT easier as you go on and gain confidence. Whether you enjoy it long term, IMHO, depends massively on whether you can relate/empathise/understand etc. the pupils you teach. This takes time and a maybe a change of some beliefs that you may hold (it did with me).
As for the workload, IMHO, it comes in waves, sometimes mad busy, sometimes less so. It gets easier and less stressful to deal with with experience. I think that success in a teaching career is being able to achieve a balance for yourself and your situation. One thing to bear in mind is that you will NEVER finish all the work that you have to do and taking an objective view on this and not beating yourself up about it is a good skill to have.
Obviously the particular school/management comes into play a lot in the above, but the general principles are sound I think.
Happy to discuss via PM, Cheers, Si
3
In reply to BofA Matt:
I don't think I could manage it with children so young. However I am sure that others do.
Some subjects are worse than others for marking. Some schools are more sensible than others as well.
I don't think I could manage it with children so young. However I am sure that others do.
Some subjects are worse than others for marking. Some schools are more sensible than others as well.
In reply to BofA Matt:
I'm in my third year of teaching. Second in science in my current school and was head of chemistry last year.
I climb every night of the week unless there's an ofsted or academy review which obviously isn't very often. I head away at weekends. Sometimes I spend a Sunday evening or a Friday afternoon doing some work (we finish at 13.20 on Fridays - excellent for weekend trips).
Don't get me wrong, I love a good moan about the state of our schools as the next teacher. However I like to stop and remind myself that I do a fantastic job for my pupils, get paid a better basic salary than some of my medic friends, a holiday no more than 8 weeks away, and am climbing better than I've ever climbed.
I'm in my third year of teaching. Second in science in my current school and was head of chemistry last year.
I climb every night of the week unless there's an ofsted or academy review which obviously isn't very often. I head away at weekends. Sometimes I spend a Sunday evening or a Friday afternoon doing some work (we finish at 13.20 on Fridays - excellent for weekend trips).
Don't get me wrong, I love a good moan about the state of our schools as the next teacher. However I like to stop and remind myself that I do a fantastic job for my pupils, get paid a better basic salary than some of my medic friends, a holiday no more than 8 weeks away, and am climbing better than I've ever climbed.
6
In reply to JayK:
It's great to hear someone really positive about this issue!
There has been some great replies to this thread - thanks for all the info!
It seems that a lot depends on the school and management style of those in charge. I wonder if there is a difference between Scottish and English schools with regards to this?
It's great to hear someone really positive about this issue!
There has been some great replies to this thread - thanks for all the info!
It seems that a lot depends on the school and management style of those in charge. I wonder if there is a difference between Scottish and English schools with regards to this?
Post edited at 22:31
In reply to BofA Matt:
I'm doing my NQT year at the moment. PGCE is very intense, and the workload as an NQT is similar. I've been very lucky that I'm at a really good school, feel very well managed and have a supportive head of department and excellent colleagues.
I was very hesitant about going into teaching, but I'm really enjoying it. The workload is getting in the way of some climbing at the moment, but it's just meant I've had to be a bit more goal focussed. I don't have any family commitments which makes it a bit easier, but I can't imagine it's significantly harder to balance that than with any other job. My working week is longer than it used to be, but the holidays make up for it and it's a very rewarding job. I'm never bored and feel very motivated to do a good job of it!
My climbing grade hasn't suffered either - I've been getting out a bit less this year, and getting away for a whole weekend is tricky at the moment, it usually involves missing wall visits in the week to make up the work - But it's possible. Last year was probably my most successful to date if we're just interested in grade chasing. I think I'd be struggling a bit if I was into winter climbing, but if you're motivated for that you'll find the time.
I'm doing my NQT year at the moment. PGCE is very intense, and the workload as an NQT is similar. I've been very lucky that I'm at a really good school, feel very well managed and have a supportive head of department and excellent colleagues.
I was very hesitant about going into teaching, but I'm really enjoying it. The workload is getting in the way of some climbing at the moment, but it's just meant I've had to be a bit more goal focussed. I don't have any family commitments which makes it a bit easier, but I can't imagine it's significantly harder to balance that than with any other job. My working week is longer than it used to be, but the holidays make up for it and it's a very rewarding job. I'm never bored and feel very motivated to do a good job of it!
My climbing grade hasn't suffered either - I've been getting out a bit less this year, and getting away for a whole weekend is tricky at the moment, it usually involves missing wall visits in the week to make up the work - But it's possible. Last year was probably my most successful to date if we're just interested in grade chasing. I think I'd be struggling a bit if I was into winter climbing, but if you're motivated for that you'll find the time.
1
In reply to BofA Matt:
Can you maintain a work-life balance as a teacher? Perhaps - but not for the first couple of years.
The four hardest years of my life:
#4: my NQT year
#3: finals at Oxford
#2: my PGCE (I'm not quite sure which way #2 and #3 should be - the stresses were so different)
#1: the year after my NQT year, when that cosy 10% protected free time was taken away
PGCE is bloody hard. The NQT year is survivable, if you're in a decent and supportive school. It's the year after that when you lose the protected time that really hurts - losing 10% doesn't sound so bad but it's about half of your free periods, and that's when you really learn to mark and plan fast. When I was training interns I had them work on planning lessons in twelve minutes - this means you can plan a whole day in an hour, at a push, and sometimes you will have to do this.
Once you get into your third year things begin to let off. You'll be recycling lesson plans and you'll be happier to ad-lib somewhat. Depending on your subject and its marking load you'll be able to take more than a very occasional weekend off - don't bank on any more than that in the first two years.
If you want to do it, go for it - it's the best job in the world. Nothing I have ever done is better than having a class really going well. But it will take all you can give it. After I'd taught for ten years I got out, because I didn't really have much left to give. I'm glad I did whilst still relatively young, because there's a lot I want to do now I'm not knackered all the time.
Can you maintain a work-life balance as a teacher? Perhaps - but not for the first couple of years.
The four hardest years of my life:
#4: my NQT year
#3: finals at Oxford
#2: my PGCE (I'm not quite sure which way #2 and #3 should be - the stresses were so different)
#1: the year after my NQT year, when that cosy 10% protected free time was taken away
PGCE is bloody hard. The NQT year is survivable, if you're in a decent and supportive school. It's the year after that when you lose the protected time that really hurts - losing 10% doesn't sound so bad but it's about half of your free periods, and that's when you really learn to mark and plan fast. When I was training interns I had them work on planning lessons in twelve minutes - this means you can plan a whole day in an hour, at a push, and sometimes you will have to do this.
Once you get into your third year things begin to let off. You'll be recycling lesson plans and you'll be happier to ad-lib somewhat. Depending on your subject and its marking load you'll be able to take more than a very occasional weekend off - don't bank on any more than that in the first two years.
If you want to do it, go for it - it's the best job in the world. Nothing I have ever done is better than having a class really going well. But it will take all you can give it. After I'd taught for ten years I got out, because I didn't really have much left to give. I'm glad I did whilst still relatively young, because there's a lot I want to do now I'm not knackered all the time.
3
In reply to marsbar:
Yes, that sounds familiar. Mind you, with the amount of pointless initiatives (that seem to change every week) that we are bombarded with by SLT, it is never difficult to explain how any extra time you get will be taken up. This for me is one of the greatest concerns about the profession: the lack of trust in the professionalism of individual teachers.
SLT are so busy trying to justify their positions that they feel they have to create endless reams of pointless evidence proving that they are monitoring and improving. I also think that it is hilarious that we end up being managed by teachers who started chasing promotions the moment they got in the classroom and whose timetables have diminished as their responsibilities have grown. We have a head and several members of SLT who have never taught a full timetable.
Despite these idiots I still love the job and enjoy the rewarding aspects (for there are many) of teaching.
To the OP: I came to teaching in my 30s with two young children at home. With effective organisation you can enjoy a full family life and get a few routes in too!
Good luck
Kev
Yes, that sounds familiar. Mind you, with the amount of pointless initiatives (that seem to change every week) that we are bombarded with by SLT, it is never difficult to explain how any extra time you get will be taken up. This for me is one of the greatest concerns about the profession: the lack of trust in the professionalism of individual teachers.
SLT are so busy trying to justify their positions that they feel they have to create endless reams of pointless evidence proving that they are monitoring and improving. I also think that it is hilarious that we end up being managed by teachers who started chasing promotions the moment they got in the classroom and whose timetables have diminished as their responsibilities have grown. We have a head and several members of SLT who have never taught a full timetable.
Despite these idiots I still love the job and enjoy the rewarding aspects (for there are many) of teaching.
To the OP: I came to teaching in my 30s with two young children at home. With effective organisation you can enjoy a full family life and get a few routes in too!
Good luck
Kev
2
In reply to Morty:
I love the job, but I'm fed up of the constant nonsense that goes with it.
Current annoyance is mostly due to PE teachers telling me how to mark books, and constant streams of people checking up on me.
Ofsted are due so management have gone into PANIC mode and are doing headless chicken impersonations.
I suspect that Scotland may have slightly less nonsense but I can't say for sure.
I love the job, but I'm fed up of the constant nonsense that goes with it.
Current annoyance is mostly due to PE teachers telling me how to mark books, and constant streams of people checking up on me.
Ofsted are due so management have gone into PANIC mode and are doing headless chicken impersonations.
I suspect that Scotland may have slightly less nonsense but I can't say for sure.
2
In reply to BofA Matt:
Ever since we lost the strike in the '80s and Thatcher trashed us, the profession has been under the cosh with every new education minister treating it like their private plaything. Teachers have got to unite (unionise) and stand up for themselves and the children, or it'll keep getting worse.
(I know, it's alright for me, I'm retired.)
Ever since we lost the strike in the '80s and Thatcher trashed us, the profession has been under the cosh with every new education minister treating it like their private plaything. Teachers have got to unite (unionise) and stand up for themselves and the children, or it'll keep getting worse.
(I know, it's alright for me, I'm retired.)
1
In reply to BofA Matt:
Can a teacher have a decent work life balance?
Are you serious?
Teachers don't get much holidays at all, they even have to extra time off for inset days.
Can a teacher have a decent work life balance?
Are you serious?
Teachers don't get much holidays at all, they even have to extra time off for inset days.
In reply to rogersavery:
INSET days are part of a teacher's 195 days of employment - 190 days teaching and 5 days of INSET.
INSET days are part of a teacher's 195 days of employment - 190 days teaching and 5 days of INSET.
1
In reply to rogersavery:
The kids get a day off. We get to stay at school and die of boredom. That was another great invention from the department of half baked ideas.
The kids get a day off. We get to stay at school and die of boredom. That was another great invention from the department of half baked ideas.
1
In reply to BofA Matt:
Teaching's hard work and rubbish, I've just had to work right through my half term
youtube.com/watch?v=FC6FXELkEaI&
Teaching's hard work and rubbish, I've just had to work right through my half term
youtube.com/watch?v=FC6FXELkEaI&
Post edited at 13:19
3
In reply to Timmd:
If you dont want the extra just sub teach. I do that out here. I'm a preferred teacher at a number of schools so generally teach higher level biology to well behaved intelligent kids. I really enjoy the classroom side and with being a sub I have no marking, nor prep.. money's not great at all but I'm done at 3 pm. Typically after just teaching 2 classes in a day.
If you dont want the extra just sub teach. I do that out here. I'm a preferred teacher at a number of schools so generally teach higher level biology to well behaved intelligent kids. I really enjoy the classroom side and with being a sub I have no marking, nor prep.. money's not great at all but I'm done at 3 pm. Typically after just teaching 2 classes in a day.
In reply to Removed UserDeleted bagger:
Thanks for your valuable input Mr Bagger. I'll take it that on board.
Thanks for your valuable input Mr Bagger. I'll take it that on board.
In reply to BofA Matt:
You asked about the possibility of going part time, which is something I've just done and one of the best moves I've ever made. Until I went part time, I hated my job because the work-life balance was all wrong and despite working fairly long hours and being exhausted, I still didn't feel I was doing a great job. Now I have some days off, my work-life balance is excellent and I actually enjoy the work side of the equation much more because I have time to do it well.
In my experience, though, Heads don't like to have part time staff. Amongst other reasons, it really complicates timetabling and ends up with more classes split between teachers. It's something you'll probably only be able to negotiate if you have extra leverage of some kind. I was lucky to teach a subject with a severe shortage of teachers. They knew I would be difficult to replace so when I suggested going part time they took me up on it. The only other types of teacher I've seen get a part-time contract are excellent experienced teachers returning from maternity leave or good teachers nearing the end of a long career and struggling with their health when trying to maintain a full timetable.
In short, I think part time is probably the answer if you want to juggle teaching, family and hobbies, but sadly it's probably going to be hard to find. As others have said, supply might be the way to go, though you'll probably want to get some normal teaching experience under your belt first. Going straight into supply might be career limiting in the future, if you find you want a normal teaching job.
You asked about the possibility of going part time, which is something I've just done and one of the best moves I've ever made. Until I went part time, I hated my job because the work-life balance was all wrong and despite working fairly long hours and being exhausted, I still didn't feel I was doing a great job. Now I have some days off, my work-life balance is excellent and I actually enjoy the work side of the equation much more because I have time to do it well.
In my experience, though, Heads don't like to have part time staff. Amongst other reasons, it really complicates timetabling and ends up with more classes split between teachers. It's something you'll probably only be able to negotiate if you have extra leverage of some kind. I was lucky to teach a subject with a severe shortage of teachers. They knew I would be difficult to replace so when I suggested going part time they took me up on it. The only other types of teacher I've seen get a part-time contract are excellent experienced teachers returning from maternity leave or good teachers nearing the end of a long career and struggling with their health when trying to maintain a full timetable.
In short, I think part time is probably the answer if you want to juggle teaching, family and hobbies, but sadly it's probably going to be hard to find. As others have said, supply might be the way to go, though you'll probably want to get some normal teaching experience under your belt first. Going straight into supply might be career limiting in the future, if you find you want a normal teaching job.
In reply to Luke90:
Hi Luke90 - thanks for the reply. There's no way I could afford to go part time mate. As it stands I'd be taking a big pay cut to enter the profession.
Hi Luke90 - thanks for the reply. There's no way I could afford to go part time mate. As it stands I'd be taking a big pay cut to enter the profession.
In reply to BofA Matt:
Oh yeah, I misremembered, it was climbercool that said he might want to go part time. I guess my post's addressed at him really.
To you, I would say that work/life balance depends upon the conditions and leadership in your school, which is pretty obvious and gets mentioned a lot. However, it also depends on how talented, effective and efficient you are at your job. That's probably hard or impossible for you to estimate at the moment. Whatever work you're currently doing, it will inevitably be very different to teaching.
Those who only ever work 8 until 4, or similar hours, are either scraping by being moderately effective and not doing much marking/preparation or they are unusually efficient and talented. That's not to imply a judgement on anyone in this thread or elsewhere who works relatively few hours, I know several teachers who fit the second option I've described there.
However naturally talented you are, though, you're not going to reach that stage in the first few years of teaching. I think you'd have to be prepared to significantly compromise on family or hobby time for at least your PGCE and NQT year. Having said that, I know a good teacher who moved house and had a second baby in his successful NQT year. He's now in a leadership role after only a few years teaching. It can be done. He certainly didn't have any time for hobbies, though.
Oh yeah, I misremembered, it was climbercool that said he might want to go part time. I guess my post's addressed at him really.
To you, I would say that work/life balance depends upon the conditions and leadership in your school, which is pretty obvious and gets mentioned a lot. However, it also depends on how talented, effective and efficient you are at your job. That's probably hard or impossible for you to estimate at the moment. Whatever work you're currently doing, it will inevitably be very different to teaching.
Those who only ever work 8 until 4, or similar hours, are either scraping by being moderately effective and not doing much marking/preparation or they are unusually efficient and talented. That's not to imply a judgement on anyone in this thread or elsewhere who works relatively few hours, I know several teachers who fit the second option I've described there.
However naturally talented you are, though, you're not going to reach that stage in the first few years of teaching. I think you'd have to be prepared to significantly compromise on family or hobby time for at least your PGCE and NQT year. Having said that, I know a good teacher who moved house and had a second baby in his successful NQT year. He's now in a leadership role after only a few years teaching. It can be done. He certainly didn't have any time for hobbies, though.
1
In reply to BofA Matt:
So you have 2 small children and you are thinking of taking a pay cut so you can give you energies to other people's kids and work too many hours.
Why?
Don't get me wrong there are aspects of my job that I love and find rewarding but I don't have small children and I wouldn't take a pay cut to be treated like I need constant checking up on.
What are your hours like at present? Do you hate your job that much?
So you have 2 small children and you are thinking of taking a pay cut so you can give you energies to other people's kids and work too many hours.
Why?
Don't get me wrong there are aspects of my job that I love and find rewarding but I don't have small children and I wouldn't take a pay cut to be treated like I need constant checking up on.
What are your hours like at present? Do you hate your job that much?
2
I am also considering leaving my current profession and heading in to teaching. Just trying to gauge opinion. I have a number of friends who are teachers and currently dating a teacher (all secondary schools in Liverpool, Sefton and Lancashire). I am struggling to work the profession out as going by my mates and the girl I am dating they aren't as stressed or as stuck for free time as some on here or the teachers you see on the news would have you believe (they have been in the job ranging from 2 - 7 years).
Currently I work a minimum of 65-70 hours per week and do work related things I.e. complete reports most evenings of most weeks (I am working on a report at the moment). Some days for me can see me work 9am - 5pm and then back to work at 8PM until anytime until 4am (depends what job I am on). Other times I am in the office 07:30 until 18:30 to then work on a report at home. Next Wednesday I know for example I am in 09:30 until 17:00 and then I have night time monitoring works to do which have to be undertaken after 21:00 to fit in with the client (I have to go to their home and they can't provide access until then).
Anyways, my work life balance is shite, I get paid less than a teacher and going from the teachers that I do know and am dating they all have a better life balance and on more pay. So thinking I might go down the teaching route as from what I see I think it will be less stress than at the moment.
On another note using my friends as the source of the opinion those that seem to have the loudest moan about the work load and stress etc have only ever known education I.e. they have gone school, college, uni and then back to school. The two I know who have not followed that route seem to cope better with the demands and workloads etc. Like I say just an observation from my small group of teacher friends.
Currently I work a minimum of 65-70 hours per week and do work related things I.e. complete reports most evenings of most weeks (I am working on a report at the moment). Some days for me can see me work 9am - 5pm and then back to work at 8PM until anytime until 4am (depends what job I am on). Other times I am in the office 07:30 until 18:30 to then work on a report at home. Next Wednesday I know for example I am in 09:30 until 17:00 and then I have night time monitoring works to do which have to be undertaken after 21:00 to fit in with the client (I have to go to their home and they can't provide access until then).
Anyways, my work life balance is shite, I get paid less than a teacher and going from the teachers that I do know and am dating they all have a better life balance and on more pay. So thinking I might go down the teaching route as from what I see I think it will be less stress than at the moment.
On another note using my friends as the source of the opinion those that seem to have the loudest moan about the work load and stress etc have only ever known education I.e. they have gone school, college, uni and then back to school. The two I know who have not followed that route seem to cope better with the demands and workloads etc. Like I say just an observation from my small group of teacher friends.
1
In reply to Alan M:
You'll do less work than that teaching, unless you really can't manage your own work load or you are totally obsessed with the job, there's lots to like about it as a career.
You'll do less work than that teaching, unless you really can't manage your own work load or you are totally obsessed with the job, there's lots to like about it as a career.
1
In reply to LakesWinter:
That's it, my friends and the girl I am dating are all encouraging it as a career. Though I am personally finding it hard to work the profession out for example I hear what they say, I see what they do and then I read posts on here or see some representative from the teachers union on the news and I end up thinking... F that for a laugh!!
The truth must be in the middle somewhere.
> You'll do less work than that teaching, unless you really can't manage your own work load or you are totally obsessed with the job, there's lots to like about it as a career.
That's it, my friends and the girl I am dating are all encouraging it as a career. Though I am personally finding it hard to work the profession out for example I hear what they say, I see what they do and then I read posts on here or see some representative from the teachers union on the news and I end up thinking... F that for a laugh!!
The truth must be in the middle somewhere.
In reply to marsbar:
Marsbar - believe me it's not a decision I have come to without some careful consideration. The job that I do just now is lucrative but is also boring, unchallenging and has very anti-social (possibly marriage-damaging) hours. I am completely unfulfilled by it and it leaves me with little energy to effectively use the free time that I have. I take your point about the negatives of teaching. I have had a few jobs in my time. All have negatives. You can cope with these negatives if they are outweighed by the positives though. To have aspects of a job which you love and find rewarding is something you should be very proud of. This is what I aim for again through a career change. I am old enough and ugly enough to know all will not be sweetness and light though!
My post on this forum was just to gain a bit of input from folks who understand the need that climbers and outdoors people have to sustain this way of life whilst having a fulfilling career and family life.
Thanks for your reply again mate.
Marsbar - believe me it's not a decision I have come to without some careful consideration. The job that I do just now is lucrative but is also boring, unchallenging and has very anti-social (possibly marriage-damaging) hours. I am completely unfulfilled by it and it leaves me with little energy to effectively use the free time that I have. I take your point about the negatives of teaching. I have had a few jobs in my time. All have negatives. You can cope with these negatives if they are outweighed by the positives though. To have aspects of a job which you love and find rewarding is something you should be very proud of. This is what I aim for again through a career change. I am old enough and ugly enough to know all will not be sweetness and light though!
My post on this forum was just to gain a bit of input from folks who understand the need that climbers and outdoors people have to sustain this way of life whilst having a fulfilling career and family life.
Thanks for your reply again mate.
In reply to BofA Matt:
Bear in mind the Scottish system is different from other countries, so some replies will be more relevant tham others. I have friends who teach and love it, and others who hate it and can't wait to retire.
If you want to keep your family life, personal interests and career in balance you'll just need to plan and make sure you prioritise.
Good luck, it's an amazing career and hopefully one you won't regret taking up.
Bear in mind the Scottish system is different from other countries, so some replies will be more relevant tham others. I have friends who teach and love it, and others who hate it and can't wait to retire.
If you want to keep your family life, personal interests and career in balance you'll just need to plan and make sure you prioritise.
Good luck, it's an amazing career and hopefully one you won't regret taking up.
1
In reply to BofA Matt:
I love teaching. I'm a Faculty head and I climb 3/4 times a week. I ski at least once a weekend in the winter and I will be surfing twice a week in the summer months as well as the climbing. I don't have any kids yet. I think teaching has got to be one of the best jobs in the world.
I don't have kids but as you can probably tell I do have time for the fun things I want to do. I work on average 8 - 6 Mon to Thurs and 8:30 till 3:30 on Fridays - Half day Friday in the South East of Scotland. I also have an hour commute each way.
Also, I think I should make it very clear that the Scottish system is very, very different from the English system. Some of the comments about the challenges teachers face such as making up lessons plans (I haven't made one since my probation year)for people to see, prescriptive management, insane demands from Management are very far removed from what I've experienced in my 7 years in the Scottish system. Each school is different of course but when I read the English forums on TES it's like a different world and the Scottish contributors there will say the same thing. There are worries that some of the ideas down South might be picked up up here but the Scottish system has more of a focus on the Professionalism of the teacher and that the teacher's judgement matters. Our Unions also seem to be much stronger too. My friends who started teaching down South and moved North have all told me that it's a different world and all my friends who qualified in Scotland and went South have either quit, come back, or left the country entirely because of what they experienced.
I cannot express more how different the system is. There are similarities but in the same ways there are similarities between the Irish, Aus, Canadian, and U.S systems. It will give you an idea of what teaching is like but our systems are very, very different. The biggest challenge at the moment are the new National qualifications but the major issues with these will be ironed out when you qualify. It will also be difficult as most contributors and you appear to have recognised to have a good work life balance when training and in the first couple of years. My probation year was the hardest year in the job along with my first year as Faculty head.
I do know that some teacher's in Scotland don't enjoy the job but I really want you to take what you hear about education from contributors from down south with a pinch of salt if you are considering staying and teaching in Scotland. I have been told and from what I've read they are very very different.
I love teaching. I'm a Faculty head and I climb 3/4 times a week. I ski at least once a weekend in the winter and I will be surfing twice a week in the summer months as well as the climbing. I don't have any kids yet. I think teaching has got to be one of the best jobs in the world.
I don't have kids but as you can probably tell I do have time for the fun things I want to do. I work on average 8 - 6 Mon to Thurs and 8:30 till 3:30 on Fridays - Half day Friday in the South East of Scotland. I also have an hour commute each way.
Also, I think I should make it very clear that the Scottish system is very, very different from the English system. Some of the comments about the challenges teachers face such as making up lessons plans (I haven't made one since my probation year)for people to see, prescriptive management, insane demands from Management are very far removed from what I've experienced in my 7 years in the Scottish system. Each school is different of course but when I read the English forums on TES it's like a different world and the Scottish contributors there will say the same thing. There are worries that some of the ideas down South might be picked up up here but the Scottish system has more of a focus on the Professionalism of the teacher and that the teacher's judgement matters. Our Unions also seem to be much stronger too. My friends who started teaching down South and moved North have all told me that it's a different world and all my friends who qualified in Scotland and went South have either quit, come back, or left the country entirely because of what they experienced.
I cannot express more how different the system is. There are similarities but in the same ways there are similarities between the Irish, Aus, Canadian, and U.S systems. It will give you an idea of what teaching is like but our systems are very, very different. The biggest challenge at the moment are the new National qualifications but the major issues with these will be ironed out when you qualify. It will also be difficult as most contributors and you appear to have recognised to have a good work life balance when training and in the first couple of years. My probation year was the hardest year in the job along with my first year as Faculty head.
I do know that some teacher's in Scotland don't enjoy the job but I really want you to take what you hear about education from contributors from down south with a pinch of salt if you are considering staying and teaching in Scotland. I have been told and from what I've read they are very very different.
3
In reply to BofA Matt:
Just read this post.....as i said the answer is yes.
> It seems that a lot depends on the school and management style of those in charge. I wonder if there is a difference between Scottish and English schools with regards to this?
Just read this post.....as i said the answer is yes.
1
In reply to paultgraham:
Great to hear a view from the Scottish perspective - sounds a lot more promising! Thanks for that
.
Great to hear a view from the Scottish perspective - sounds a lot more promising! Thanks for that
.
In reply to BofA Matt:
I have found that the teachers who complain about how hard their job is are the ones who came into the profession straight from university. I work with teachers who used to be coppers, oil workers, miners and factory workers; every one of them agrees that teaching, for all its stress and commitment, is a cushy number in terms of freedom and holidays.
As for the Scottish/English thing; everything is better up here: class sizes are smaller, the kids are nicer, the exams are easier, the curriculum is excellent and it is always sunny.
I have found that the teachers who complain about how hard their job is are the ones who came into the profession straight from university. I work with teachers who used to be coppers, oil workers, miners and factory workers; every one of them agrees that teaching, for all its stress and commitment, is a cushy number in terms of freedom and holidays.
As for the Scottish/English thing; everything is better up here: class sizes are smaller, the kids are nicer, the exams are easier, the curriculum is excellent and it is always sunny.
2
In reply to BofA Matt:
Aye, 30 years of living with a teacher mate. The mental capacity act might have have to invoked......
> Thanks for your valuable input Mr Bagger. I'll take it that on board.
Aye, 30 years of living with a teacher mate. The mental capacity act might have have to invoked......
1
In reply to BofA Matt:
I've often seen it said that it's simply a different job North of the border, and several of the replies here back that up. It's a different job in the private sector too - having done some time there I can't believe how easy they have it.
I've often seen it said that it's simply a different job North of the border, and several of the replies here back that up. It's a different job in the private sector too - having done some time there I can't believe how easy they have it.
1
In reply to Jamie Wakeham:
Another to the list of tried it, now doing other things pile. I was a science teacher.
I struggled getting any time to climb when I was teaching. My work life balance sucked from the 2nd week of PGCE to the final term when I left. It started to change me in directions I wasn't happy with, killed my relationship with my ex and made the only conversation I could speak with any authority was "my year7s" etc etc. It was all consuming.
However, there were those in the school who loved it and would defend it to the hilt.
I still think it is for many a very hard and costly (in a personal sense) way to make a mediocre living. For others, its the only way to live.
K
Another to the list of tried it, now doing other things pile. I was a science teacher.
I struggled getting any time to climb when I was teaching. My work life balance sucked from the 2nd week of PGCE to the final term when I left. It started to change me in directions I wasn't happy with, killed my relationship with my ex and made the only conversation I could speak with any authority was "my year7s" etc etc. It was all consuming.
However, there were those in the school who loved it and would defend it to the hilt.
I still think it is for many a very hard and costly (in a personal sense) way to make a mediocre living. For others, its the only way to live.
K
1
In reply to BofA Matt:
It sounds like you will have a much better time of it in Scotland.
Sorry if it sounds like I was questioning you, but I have seen quite a few career change teachers come in full of the joys of "giving something back" saying that they worked all hours and how hard can it be. A large proportion of them haven't stuck it. The last one dropped out after a couple of months of on the job training. One of our students I think will stick it, but he had gone from being very very senior in the city, to being a student teacher and he was somewhat shell shocked at not having a secretary any more to do the tedious stuff, and he soon stopped saying things like how come it takes so long to mark books.
It sounds like you have given it a lot more thought than most. I do love it. I don't like not being trusted, and being made to waste my time on stuff that doesn't need doing and has no benefit except to some paper pusher. There seems to be less of that North of the border. I also work in a school where there are issues with certain staff members and that can be exhausting. So take what I say with a pinch of salt.
Good luck.
It sounds like you will have a much better time of it in Scotland.
Sorry if it sounds like I was questioning you, but I have seen quite a few career change teachers come in full of the joys of "giving something back" saying that they worked all hours and how hard can it be. A large proportion of them haven't stuck it. The last one dropped out after a couple of months of on the job training. One of our students I think will stick it, but he had gone from being very very senior in the city, to being a student teacher and he was somewhat shell shocked at not having a secretary any more to do the tedious stuff, and he soon stopped saying things like how come it takes so long to mark books.
It sounds like you have given it a lot more thought than most. I do love it. I don't like not being trusted, and being made to waste my time on stuff that doesn't need doing and has no benefit except to some paper pusher. There seems to be less of that North of the border. I also work in a school where there are issues with certain staff members and that can be exhausting. So take what I say with a pinch of salt.
Good luck.
1
In reply to Alan M:
I have worked all kinds of jobs. In a factory, in an old peoples home, in a shop, for social services with kids in care and in prison.
It sounds like you work hard and long hours. So do some of the other jobs you mentioned.
I'm not knocking that.
I'm not lazy but I get peed off having to spend my time doing pointless stuff and having to work inefficiently.
Edit
Sorry I think some of that is for Alan M and some for Alan Moore.
I have worked all kinds of jobs. In a factory, in an old peoples home, in a shop, for social services with kids in care and in prison.
It sounds like you work hard and long hours. So do some of the other jobs you mentioned.
I'm not knocking that.
I'm not lazy but I get peed off having to spend my time doing pointless stuff and having to work inefficiently.
Edit
Sorry I think some of that is for Alan M and some for Alan Moore.
Post edited at 18:31
1
In reply to marsbar:
I think pretty much every sector works inefficiently to a point (I've worked in a few) ... honestly the stuff that goes on in my current place of work with form filling and box ticking to show compliance with government guidance is a nightmare. My pet hate at the moment - We have to manually complete every paper form twice so that we have one for our file, one for the client to keep and then the kick in the guts is that once back in the office you then have to scan it to save it as a digital file before then creating a service request on the systems and updating the outcomes of the audit!! Talk about inefficiency
I think the point I was making was that I am considering changing my career and heading in to teaching. Based on the small group of teacher friends I have (all in different secondary schools) including the girl I am dating they all encourage the change of career and talk up teaching as a profession. The confusion comes in when I read some posts for example on here or see representatives from the teaching union on the news, they portray a completely different profession and opinion that my friends don't necessarily agree with when I speak with them. Like I say it's hard from the outside to work the profession out.
> I have worked all kinds of jobs. In a factory, in an old peoples home, in a shop, for social services with kids in care and in prison.
> It sounds like you work hard and long hours. So do some of the other jobs you mentioned.
> I'm not knocking that.
> I'm not lazy but I get peed off having to spend my time doing pointless stuff and having to work inefficiently.
> Edit
> Sorry I think some of that is for Alan M and some for Alan Moore.
I think pretty much every sector works inefficiently to a point (I've worked in a few) ... honestly the stuff that goes on in my current place of work with form filling and box ticking to show compliance with government guidance is a nightmare. My pet hate at the moment - We have to manually complete every paper form twice so that we have one for our file, one for the client to keep and then the kick in the guts is that once back in the office you then have to scan it to save it as a digital file before then creating a service request on the systems and updating the outcomes of the audit!! Talk about inefficiency
I think the point I was making was that I am considering changing my career and heading in to teaching. Based on the small group of teacher friends I have (all in different secondary schools) including the girl I am dating they all encourage the change of career and talk up teaching as a profession. The confusion comes in when I read some posts for example on here or see representatives from the teaching union on the news, they portray a completely different profession and opinion that my friends don't necessarily agree with when I speak with them. Like I say it's hard from the outside to work the profession out.
In reply to BofA Matt:
The fact that you are 37 and have presumably worked in other industries will probably count in your favour in maintaining work / life balance.
As others point out it depends on lots of factors like subject, your departmental boss and the SLT but mostly on your own approach. It is a job that is open to endless tinkering and it can fill as many hours as you wish but it's important to remember that working longer hours does not make you a better teacher.
It also gets much easier after the first few years when you get a handle on what is actually essential and what is pointless faff.
The fact that you are 37 and have presumably worked in other industries will probably count in your favour in maintaining work / life balance.
As others point out it depends on lots of factors like subject, your departmental boss and the SLT but mostly on your own approach. It is a job that is open to endless tinkering and it can fill as many hours as you wish but it's important to remember that working longer hours does not make you a better teacher.
It also gets much easier after the first few years when you get a handle on what is actually essential and what is pointless faff.
3
In reply to BofA Matt:
It's a total skive when you're in college and proper hard work when you're on placement.
> Thanks for that mate. I fully expect the PGDE to be pretty intense and imagine it can consume most of your free time.
It's a total skive when you're in college and proper hard work when you're on placement.
1
In reply to BofA Matt:
I'm a chemistry teacher in Liverpool. The hours can be long (I often get up at 4am to mark/plan and stay in work until 7pm at least one day a week, the other days regularly finish at 5.30 - 6pm) but even after 17 years its still very rewarding. I have a young family and still manage to get out most weekends and twice during the week, mainly by staying in school to get the work done where possible. My advice to keep a decent balance: buy a fingerboard. Short hard sessions at home to top up or extra training will help you stay fit, psyched and sane during the busy periods.
Andy F
I'm a chemistry teacher in Liverpool. The hours can be long (I often get up at 4am to mark/plan and stay in work until 7pm at least one day a week, the other days regularly finish at 5.30 - 6pm) but even after 17 years its still very rewarding. I have a young family and still manage to get out most weekends and twice during the week, mainly by staying in school to get the work done where possible. My advice to keep a decent balance: buy a fingerboard. Short hard sessions at home to top up or extra training will help you stay fit, psyched and sane during the busy periods.
Andy F
1
In reply to Alan M:
I did my first year teaching in Liverpool. It was a lot more positive than where I am now. The kids were hard work but the staff worked brilliantly together. It was a work hard play harder kind of place. I think maybe a lot of my moans are to do with being in London and surrounded by Southerners who don't like plain speaking, and a general culture in my school that is a bit off balance. I'm also struggling with the kids in this school being spoilt little princesses which I am not used to.
I did my first year teaching in Liverpool. It was a lot more positive than where I am now. The kids were hard work but the staff worked brilliantly together. It was a work hard play harder kind of place. I think maybe a lot of my moans are to do with being in London and surrounded by Southerners who don't like plain speaking, and a general culture in my school that is a bit off balance. I'm also struggling with the kids in this school being spoilt little princesses which I am not used to.
In reply to Alan M:
I'm guessing it's like any other profession - if you've been in it long enough to remember 'the good old days' then it probably is relatively un-enjoyable now. Anyone who's been doing it under 10 years hasn't known anything different.
I'm guessing it's like any other profession - if you've been in it long enough to remember 'the good old days' then it probably is relatively un-enjoyable now. Anyone who's been doing it under 10 years hasn't known anything different.
In reply to Toerag:
Are you really claiming that all professions have declined in this way? That's a very gloomy picture. I'm sure you exaggerate, because many people are claiming that things outside the London area are a lot better (indeed almost the better the further you get away from London!) Certainly, living now in the East Midlands, I find the general attitude to life and work much healthier than in London and SE. And much more honest. In fact, the whole time I've lived up here - about 23 years now - I don't recall ever being ripped off once.
> I'm guessing it's like any other profession - if you've been in it long enough to remember 'the good old days' then it probably is relatively un-enjoyable now. Anyone who's been doing it under 10 years hasn't known anything different.
Are you really claiming that all professions have declined in this way? That's a very gloomy picture. I'm sure you exaggerate, because many people are claiming that things outside the London area are a lot better (indeed almost the better the further you get away from London!) Certainly, living now in the East Midlands, I find the general attitude to life and work much healthier than in London and SE. And much more honest. In fact, the whole time I've lived up here - about 23 years now - I don't recall ever being ripped off once.
In reply to Toerag:
I'd say that (again, in England, at least) it got significantly worse during the time I was teaching (2001-11). At the start, OFSTED was a minor annoyance that came around every few years. By the end, it was the absolute driver behind everything we did.
A true story - a couple of years before I left, I taught an observed lesson which was assessed to be outstanding. Twelve months later, we had another inspection sprung upon us and I happened to have an almost identical class at exacly the same point in the course. Brilliant, thinks I, as I pull the outstanding lesson plan out, and deliver it just as well (if not better) than last time. Satisfactory with good features, it seems, and questions were asked as to how I could have done so badly when the school needed me to perform. That sense of the goalposts shifting so seismically was one of the things that pushed me to get the hell out.
> I'm guessing it's like any other profession - if you've been in it long enough to remember 'the good old days' then it probably is relatively un-enjoyable now. Anyone who's been doing it under 10 years hasn't known anything different.
I'd say that (again, in England, at least) it got significantly worse during the time I was teaching (2001-11). At the start, OFSTED was a minor annoyance that came around every few years. By the end, it was the absolute driver behind everything we did.
A true story - a couple of years before I left, I taught an observed lesson which was assessed to be outstanding. Twelve months later, we had another inspection sprung upon us and I happened to have an almost identical class at exacly the same point in the course. Brilliant, thinks I, as I pull the outstanding lesson plan out, and deliver it just as well (if not better) than last time. Satisfactory with good features, it seems, and questions were asked as to how I could have done so badly when the school needed me to perform. That sense of the goalposts shifting so seismically was one of the things that pushed me to get the hell out.
In reply to marsbar:
We don't have OFSTED in Scotland to make our lives a misery.
Instead we have the SQA whose M.O. is very different but has the same effect.
> It sounds like you will have a much better time of it in Scotland.
We don't have OFSTED in Scotland to make our lives a misery.
Instead we have the SQA whose M.O. is very different but has the same effect.
Post edited at 22:18
In reply to Jamie Wakeham:
This is supposed to have have changed now and Ofsted apparently will base their findings much more heavily on data (like how well your pupils did in their GCSEs) rather than requiring you to demonstrate that all 33 pupils got cleverer over the 30 minutes you were observed teaching them.
This is supposed to have have changed now and Ofsted apparently will base their findings much more heavily on data (like how well your pupils did in their GCSEs) rather than requiring you to demonstrate that all 33 pupils got cleverer over the 30 minutes you were observed teaching them.
In reply to crossdressingrodney:
Sadly the data for my bottom sets isnt as good as the data for my tops sets. This is replicated across the dept. It seems to be based on made up primary school levels.
Sadly the data for my bottom sets isnt as good as the data for my tops sets. This is replicated across the dept. It seems to be based on made up primary school levels.
In reply to marsbar:
Having spent the last seven years of my career working on school performance data, you wouldn't believe just how true this is.
Having spent the last seven years of my career working on school performance data, you wouldn't believe just how true this is.
1
In reply to All:
Hey folks - I'd just like to say thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread. It's been very informative and great to hear positive and not so positive views on the matter. I have really benefited from the input of teachers who actually do the job and continue to maintain their passion for climbing and the outdoors lifestyle. I've accepted the offer at Strathclyde so I will start my PGDE in August this year. I'll report back in a couple of years and give you my take on the work/life balance question!
Cheers,
Matt
Hey folks - I'd just like to say thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread. It's been very informative and great to hear positive and not so positive views on the matter. I have really benefited from the input of teachers who actually do the job and continue to maintain their passion for climbing and the outdoors lifestyle. I've accepted the offer at Strathclyde so I will start my PGDE in August this year. I'll report back in a couple of years and give you my take on the work/life balance question!
Cheers,
Matt
3
In reply to BofA Matt:
Good luck. All the crap is worth it when the kids suddenly get that "ooo now I get it" look on their face.
So, my top tips for work life balance;
Don't have a dog and bark. Delegate tedious tasks to the kids, its good for them to have responsibility, and can do far more themselves than people realise. Too many teachers are control freaks and don't let the kids do anything.
Get good at spreadsheets if you aren't already. It will make your boring data handling easier.
Learn how to mail merge on word and set up report writing so that you can write personalised reports with less effort. It takes a while to set up but saves time in the long term.
Mark exams all of one page at once, its faster than doing beginning to end.
Get stamps or stickers to speed up marking your books.
Work on peer marking, it requires training the pupils but its worth it. Give them a template of what to look for if its not simple.
Don't reinvent the wheel. There are lots of good resources on tes and in various other places.
Good luck. All the crap is worth it when the kids suddenly get that "ooo now I get it" look on their face.
So, my top tips for work life balance;
Don't have a dog and bark. Delegate tedious tasks to the kids, its good for them to have responsibility, and can do far more themselves than people realise. Too many teachers are control freaks and don't let the kids do anything.
Get good at spreadsheets if you aren't already. It will make your boring data handling easier.
Learn how to mail merge on word and set up report writing so that you can write personalised reports with less effort. It takes a while to set up but saves time in the long term.
Mark exams all of one page at once, its faster than doing beginning to end.
Get stamps or stickers to speed up marking your books.
Work on peer marking, it requires training the pupils but its worth it. Give them a template of what to look for if its not simple.
Don't reinvent the wheel. There are lots of good resources on tes and in various other places.
2
In reply to marsbar:
I thought this was how it had always been done; i.e. the Primary stuff was ignored?
> I know. We baseline test our year 7s now!
I thought this was how it had always been done; i.e. the Primary stuff was ignored?
In reply to Kipper:
The performance data is based on primary as are all the targets
We do our own baseline so we can explain why certain kids didn't achieve their stupid target when we get hassled.
There are other tests as well. Sadly our management are not mathematics based and they make certain decisions based on misuse of the data. Usually mixed with excessive optimism and rose tinted glasses.
The performance data is based on primary as are all the targets
We do our own baseline so we can explain why certain kids didn't achieve their stupid target when we get hassled.
There are other tests as well. Sadly our management are not mathematics based and they make certain decisions based on misuse of the data. Usually mixed with excessive optimism and rose tinted glasses.
In reply to marsbar:
What's the cause of that then? I've heard that well-meaning support staff might intentionally or unintentionally give too much support in exams, which might artificially inflate grades for SEN kids -- could this be the reason your bottom sets have unrealistic targets?
What's the cause of that then? I've heard that well-meaning support staff might intentionally or unintentionally give too much support in exams, which might artificially inflate grades for SEN kids -- could this be the reason your bottom sets have unrealistic targets?
In reply to crossdressingrodney:
The main cause is that primary schools are judged on the data they provide so its in their interests to be optimistic.
As you mentioned SEN kids sometimes get too much help. I have had words with a few TAs before because they want to help too much which means we don't get a true picture.
The main cause is that primary schools are judged on the data they provide so its in their interests to be optimistic.
As you mentioned SEN kids sometimes get too much help. I have had words with a few TAs before because they want to help too much which means we don't get a true picture.
In reply to marsbar:
Nothing hacks me off more than my sons telling me that they spent the lesson marking each others papers!
Please don't do it!!
It might make your life easier but that's not really the point is it?
In contrast No 1 son told me the other day how useful one of his A Level maths teachers marking was as she put really helpful comments. I told her at parents evening and she was really pleased and explained how she'd changed after talking to another Maths teacher.
Good marking is a valuable teaching skill - don't be lazy and delegate it.
> Work on peer marking, it requires training the pupils but its worth it. Give them a template of what to look for if its not simple.
Nothing hacks me off more than my sons telling me that they spent the lesson marking each others papers!
Please don't do it!!
It might make your life easier but that's not really the point is it?
In contrast No 1 son told me the other day how useful one of his A Level maths teachers marking was as she put really helpful comments. I told her at parents evening and she was really pleased and explained how she'd changed after talking to another Maths teacher.
Good marking is a valuable teaching skill - don't be lazy and delegate it.
3
In reply to Babika:
Thanks for a great example of parents know best, another great joy of teaching.
Proper peer marking with scaffolding as described enables pupils to see each others mistakes and to to gain a much better understanding of the success criteria. The time spent not marking by me can then be better used to analyse results and plan thoroughly to help them improve.
Or the short version, stop telling me how to do my job and don't call me lazy. On the papers I mark I do put helpful comments btw. I always have.
Perhaps you would also like to tell Ofsted how we should teach as peer marking Iis something they look for.
Thanks for a great example of parents know best, another great joy of teaching.
Proper peer marking with scaffolding as described enables pupils to see each others mistakes and to to gain a much better understanding of the success criteria. The time spent not marking by me can then be better used to analyse results and plan thoroughly to help them improve.
Or the short version, stop telling me how to do my job and don't call me lazy. On the papers I mark I do put helpful comments btw. I always have.
Perhaps you would also like to tell Ofsted how we should teach as peer marking Iis something they look for.
Post edited at 07:16
5
In reply to Babika:
You've just read this thread, and you still think teachers are in it to 'make their lives easier'? Jaysus wept.
Look. Peer marking, at best, is an excellent and involving learning experience in and of itself. Before critical coursework tasks I used to get the class to peer mark dummy pieces of written myself. It had more effect on their grades than any amount of my telling them what to do or writing mocks.
And at worst, it gets a job done in ten minute that would have taken the teacher 90 minutes that night. Time which will be better spent planning your son's next lesson.
Just maybe that qualified professional at the front kinda knows what they're doing.
OP: very best of luck.
You've just read this thread, and you still think teachers are in it to 'make their lives easier'? Jaysus wept.
Look. Peer marking, at best, is an excellent and involving learning experience in and of itself. Before critical coursework tasks I used to get the class to peer mark dummy pieces of written myself. It had more effect on their grades than any amount of my telling them what to do or writing mocks.
And at worst, it gets a job done in ten minute that would have taken the teacher 90 minutes that night. Time which will be better spent planning your son's next lesson.
Just maybe that qualified professional at the front kinda knows what they're doing.
OP: very best of luck.
3
In reply to Babika:
Yes indeed, because as any fule no, marking a piece of A level work is exactly the same as marking a Yr 7 quiz. Thanks for your valuable input.
JW
Yes indeed, because as any fule no, marking a piece of A level work is exactly the same as marking a Yr 7 quiz. Thanks for your valuable input.
JW
2
In reply to BofA Matt:
My wife used to teach primary and found it hard work. A lot of preparing lessons , marking and classroom prep. Having said that, I think on the whole she enjoyed it, preferring the inner city school with a lot of poorer background children to the middle class school in the suburbs.
Possibly something to think about long term to improve your work life balance with your new skills is learning the 11+ syllabus and tutoring for it. If you move to an area close to some very good grammar schools then your work/life balance could tip massively in your favour if any of the tutors I have heard of are anything to go by. I have colleagues who send their children for 11+ tutoring and the set up the teachers have is pretty impressive. One tutor hires a church hall on saturday mornings and has 20 students all paying £3k up front(!) for the 60 lessons. She then teaches them all for 1.5 hrs on a sat morning. £60k gross for half your sat mornings for 18 months! Others spend a bit more on smaller classes. One tutor does 5 students for 1.5 hrs around her kitchen table @ £55 a session, again paid for up front (so no issues with students not turning up and losing money), so £275 for a sat morning. One barrier to entry for this is the track record. Parents usually want to know how succesful you have been in getting students in to the schools and who knows how long the 11+ testing system will be in place. But I thought it was pretty impressive way of leveraging the system and teaching skills to earn decent money and giving up little time.
My wife used to teach primary and found it hard work. A lot of preparing lessons , marking and classroom prep. Having said that, I think on the whole she enjoyed it, preferring the inner city school with a lot of poorer background children to the middle class school in the suburbs.
Possibly something to think about long term to improve your work life balance with your new skills is learning the 11+ syllabus and tutoring for it. If you move to an area close to some very good grammar schools then your work/life balance could tip massively in your favour if any of the tutors I have heard of are anything to go by. I have colleagues who send their children for 11+ tutoring and the set up the teachers have is pretty impressive. One tutor hires a church hall on saturday mornings and has 20 students all paying £3k up front(!) for the 60 lessons. She then teaches them all for 1.5 hrs on a sat morning. £60k gross for half your sat mornings for 18 months! Others spend a bit more on smaller classes. One tutor does 5 students for 1.5 hrs around her kitchen table @ £55 a session, again paid for up front (so no issues with students not turning up and losing money), so £275 for a sat morning. One barrier to entry for this is the track record. Parents usually want to know how succesful you have been in getting students in to the schools and who knows how long the 11+ testing system will be in place. But I thought it was pretty impressive way of leveraging the system and teaching skills to earn decent money and giving up little time.
1
In reply to marsbar:
That's exactly what I was thinking! I am married but no kids. I have been a teacher since 2001, previously Biology/Science and now Support for Learning. My wife is very understanding of my climbing and I get out often enough nowadays. However, if we did have kids, I would imagine that I would get out far more rarely.
> I reckon you can manage a work/family balance or a work/play balance, but to teach and do all 3 properly might be tricky.
That's exactly what I was thinking! I am married but no kids. I have been a teacher since 2001, previously Biology/Science and now Support for Learning. My wife is very understanding of my climbing and I get out often enough nowadays. However, if we did have kids, I would imagine that I would get out far more rarely.
In reply to Mark Bannan:
Thanks for the reply Mark. I'm interested in why you think it would be more difficult, as a parent, to find time for climbing whilst employed as a teacher as opposed to any other career?
Cheers,
Matt
Thanks for the reply Mark. I'm interested in why you think it would be more difficult, as a parent, to find time for climbing whilst employed as a teacher as opposed to any other career?
Cheers,
Matt
In reply to BofA Matt:
I'm interested in why you think it would be more difficult, as a parent, to find time for climbing whilst employed as a teacher as opposed to any other career?
Sorry Matt - I must have misled you! I simply think being a parent would leave fewer opportunities for climbing than not!
I'm interested in why you think it would be more difficult, as a parent, to find time for climbing whilst employed as a teacher as opposed to any other career?
Sorry Matt - I must have misled you! I simply think being a parent would leave fewer opportunities for climbing than not!
1
In reply to Mark Bannan:
Aye Mark - very true! Been a Dad for six years and still manage to get out though. My current job gives a lot less opportunities than others that I have had. I hope teaching will be compatible with both family and climbing.
Aye Mark - very true! Been a Dad for six years and still manage to get out though. My current job gives a lot less opportunities than others that I have had. I hope teaching will be compatible with both family and climbing.
In reply to BofA Matt:
Just to add..
Today I taught Advanced Bio at at high school, so was in at 7:10 am, up at 5:50 am. But finished at 2:30, spent 30 minutes sorting out some marking, handing stuff back, leaving reports. Then did a 15 mile run in sunlight in the winter... by 6 pm I was having a sauna, by 7 I was home all done for the day.
Ok as a proper teacher not sub I'd now have a few hours prep but you do have the flexibility to use day light and get out if you lived in the right area.
I'm a non-qualified teacher, just a bio PhD, so teach part time at a local high school when required and deliver one module (adjunct) at a local uni, so cant take longer term positions anyway. But I do think teaching would be something I could do at the right school. I teach in one of the roughest counties in the US but also a very rich district is in that county so within 5 miles I can teach at one of the best high schools in the country, or be at a high school teaching Maths to students who have no long term teacher and you are baby sitting with even the smallest gain a victory... some of the schools I teach in I never go back and could never work there.
Just to add..
Today I taught Advanced Bio at at high school, so was in at 7:10 am, up at 5:50 am. But finished at 2:30, spent 30 minutes sorting out some marking, handing stuff back, leaving reports. Then did a 15 mile run in sunlight in the winter... by 6 pm I was having a sauna, by 7 I was home all done for the day.
Ok as a proper teacher not sub I'd now have a few hours prep but you do have the flexibility to use day light and get out if you lived in the right area.
I'm a non-qualified teacher, just a bio PhD, so teach part time at a local high school when required and deliver one module (adjunct) at a local uni, so cant take longer term positions anyway. But I do think teaching would be something I could do at the right school. I teach in one of the roughest counties in the US but also a very rich district is in that county so within 5 miles I can teach at one of the best high schools in the country, or be at a high school teaching Maths to students who have no long term teacher and you are baby sitting with even the smallest gain a victory... some of the schools I teach in I never go back and could never work there.
In reply to BofA Matt:
As a committed primary school teacher, I don't think my Mum could have managed to fit in climbing as well as being a teacher and a parent.
> Aye Mark - very true! Been a Dad for six years and still manage to get out though. My current job gives a lot less opportunities than others that I have had. I hope teaching will be compatible with both family and climbing.
As a committed primary school teacher, I don't think my Mum could have managed to fit in climbing as well as being a teacher and a parent.
In reply to BofA Matt:
Yes - good luck with this! My current job as a secondary Teacher of Learning Support is certainly the best career I have happened on so far (and I have had a reasonably varied career in my life).
M
> (In reply to Mark Bannan)
>
> I hope teaching will be compatible with both family and climbing.
>
> I hope teaching will be compatible with both family and climbing.
Yes - good luck with this! My current job as a secondary Teacher of Learning Support is certainly the best career I have happened on so far (and I have had a reasonably varied career in my life).
M
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