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http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/02/24/david-tredinnick-tory-mp-urges-n...
A Tory MP has said the NHS could use astrology to treat its patients, while branding anyone that doesn’t believe in it "racist" (that’s astrology – as in the belief that there is a relationship between astronomical phenomena and events in the human world).
David Tredinnick (who sits on both the Health Select Committee and the Science and Technology Select Committee) said on Tuesday that divination could have a "role to play in healthcare" and that employing prophecy in 21st century medicine could relieve "pressure" on doctors". In an interview with the Astrological Journal, the MP for Bosworth in Leicestershire said: "I do believe that astrology and complementary medicine would help take the huge pressure off doctors."
A Tory MP has said the NHS could use astrology to treat its patients, while branding anyone that doesn’t believe in it "racist" (that’s astrology – as in the belief that there is a relationship between astronomical phenomena and events in the human world).
David Tredinnick (who sits on both the Health Select Committee and the Science and Technology Select Committee) said on Tuesday that divination could have a "role to play in healthcare" and that employing prophecy in 21st century medicine could relieve "pressure" on doctors". In an interview with the Astrological Journal, the MP for Bosworth in Leicestershire said: "I do believe that astrology and complementary medicine would help take the huge pressure off doctors."
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In reply to Billy the fish:
I guess if the NHS starting using astrology then it would relieve pressure on the doctors.
As everyone who could beg, borrowed or stole some private healthcare cover.
I guess if the NHS starting using astrology then it would relieve pressure on the doctors.
As everyone who could beg, borrowed or stole some private healthcare cover.
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In reply to Billy the fish:
for me this - "sits on both the Health Select Committee and the Science and Technology Select Committee" - is the most worrying thing about Treddinick!
for me this - "sits on both the Health Select Committee and the Science and Technology Select Committee" - is the most worrying thing about Treddinick!
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In reply to Billy the fish:
If the problem is the "worried well" then I can see offering them some quack will stop them clogging up the real hospitals and preventing them treating genuinely ill people.
If he seriously thinks any of this will actually help cure people, then wtf is he doing on health and science commitees?
If the problem is the "worried well" then I can see offering them some quack will stop them clogging up the real hospitals and preventing them treating genuinely ill people.
If he seriously thinks any of this will actually help cure people, then wtf is he doing on health and science commitees?
In reply to Billy the fish:
What a load of tripe. Good job we Aquarians don't believe in that stuff.
What a load of tripe. Good job we Aquarians don't believe in that stuff.
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In reply to balmybaldwin:
since he is an expert in alternative bollox, sorry, medicine and science.
His contribution to the expenses scandal was spending 700 quid on astrology software.
> If he seriously thinks any of this will actually help cure people, then wtf is he doing on health and science commitees?
since he is an expert in alternative bollox, sorry, medicine and science.
His contribution to the expenses scandal was spending 700 quid on astrology software.
In reply to higherclimbingwales:
I think that's only the second most worrying thing. The most worrying thing is that his fellow MPs voted for him to represent them in this position.
> for me this - "sits on both the Health Select Committee and the Science and Technology Select Committee" - is the most worrying thing about Treddinick!
I think that's only the second most worrying thing. The most worrying thing is that his fellow MPs voted for him to represent them in this position.
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In reply to Billy the fish:
Actually seems quite sensible. Placebo effect is pretty much accepted and useful and, if placebo effect from believing that the position Venus in the 7th circle of some crap or another cures the back pain, I'm all in favour.
Actually seems quite sensible. Placebo effect is pretty much accepted and useful and, if placebo effect from believing that the position Venus in the 7th circle of some crap or another cures the back pain, I'm all in favour.
1
1
In reply to Jon Stewart:
Need to drown him first to see if he's heavier than a duck
> I think he's a witch. Can we burn him?
Need to drown him first to see if he's heavier than a duck
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In reply to Billy the fish:
I wish these Tories would make their minds up.
Not so long ago they were slating the NHS in Wales.
Now, if this gets the go-ahead, there'll be a brain drain- some of our best Consultant Druids lured to England .
Anyway, Astrologists- I won't believe it has actually happened until I see an episode of BBC1's Casualty, where the ever-observant hospital porter alerts an NHS astrologist to the undiagnosed potentially lethal conditon he has just noticed in a kindly old man waiting in A&E . It's bound to happen. After all, homeopathy has featured in past episodes.
youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0&
I wish these Tories would make their minds up.
Not so long ago they were slating the NHS in Wales.
Now, if this gets the go-ahead, there'll be a brain drain- some of our best Consultant Druids lured to England .
Anyway, Astrologists- I won't believe it has actually happened until I see an episode of BBC1's Casualty, where the ever-observant hospital porter alerts an NHS astrologist to the undiagnosed potentially lethal conditon he has just noticed in a kindly old man waiting in A&E . It's bound to happen. After all, homeopathy has featured in past episodes.
youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0&
In reply to Billy the fish:
>"A Tory MP has said the NHS could use astrology to treat its patients"
Well, I can see how this could work to save money...
Mr. Jones: Will I pull through, doctor?
Doctor: I'm afraid not. You've got Mercury in Uranus. You're done for. We might as well stop your £24,000 a week treatment now and let you die with dignity.
>"A Tory MP has said the NHS could use astrology to treat its patients"
Well, I can see how this could work to save money...
Mr. Jones: Will I pull through, doctor?
Doctor: I'm afraid not. You've got Mercury in Uranus. You're done for. We might as well stop your £24,000 a week treatment now and let you die with dignity.
Post edited at 23:12
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In reply to Billy the fish:
In line with the often made demand that people "respect" others belief in officialy sanctioned Sky faries.
If I'm going to respect belief in christianity of islam then I'd be a hypocrite if I called this snotball a simpering halfwit with no place in the government of a technological nation.
This is why I can't respect belief in religion - who am I to pick and choose which are sensible and which are batshit insane? I'll leave thet hypocrisy to the witch burning believers.
In line with the often made demand that people "respect" others belief in officialy sanctioned Sky faries.
If I'm going to respect belief in christianity of islam then I'd be a hypocrite if I called this snotball a simpering halfwit with no place in the government of a technological nation.
This is why I can't respect belief in religion - who am I to pick and choose which are sensible and which are batshit insane? I'll leave thet hypocrisy to the witch burning believers.
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In reply to wintertree:
Whether someting is an accepted faith or a delusion meriting psychiatric help is simply a question of prevalence.
CB
> This is why I can't respect belief in religion - who am I to pick and choose which are sensible and which are batshit insane? I'll leave thet hypocrisy to the witch burning believers.
Whether someting is an accepted faith or a delusion meriting psychiatric help is simply a question of prevalence.
CB
3
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In reply to cb294:
Since more than a few people have claimed to be abducted by aliens without it becoming an established religion (no-one really takes any notice of the Raelians) I suggest that something else may be behind such acceptance of sky-fairy bullshit. Maybe the utility to the establishment in providing well-paid jobs for people with no discernible skills but who come from the right stock?
However, I have studied the utter bowel-slurry that is Astrology at some length so if the NHS want me its £2000 a day consultancy fee...
Since more than a few people have claimed to be abducted by aliens without it becoming an established religion (no-one really takes any notice of the Raelians) I suggest that something else may be behind such acceptance of sky-fairy bullshit. Maybe the utility to the establishment in providing well-paid jobs for people with no discernible skills but who come from the right stock?
However, I have studied the utter bowel-slurry that is Astrology at some length so if the NHS want me its £2000 a day consultancy fee...
In reply to JLS:
Sounds like a RIDDOR to me, I hope you notified the HSE!
> You've got Mercury in Uranus.
Sounds like a RIDDOR to me, I hope you notified the HSE!
In reply to Clarence:
I was not actually trying to start a serious discussion of the subject, but here goes:
I guess the Raelians were a) too late, and b) their religion does not benefit the modern, post enlightenment society they live in (society as in its organizational structure, not necessarily individual people within it).
Humans are biased by evolution to accept explanations invoking a higher power as a byproduct of assigning agency to everything (it is clearly adaptive to think the noise outside the cave may be the bear coming home rather than just a noise). It is therefore not surprising that many people start looking elsewhere, including new age BS, when the explanatory power of traditional religion disappears. In many respects this is just another example where the evolutionary baggage we carry from our days in the trees still shines through.
As societies form, some religions have properties that render them beneficial to the society they develop in, and are in turn reinforced by these societies (e.g., "Render unto Caesar..." and the deferred hope for a better life offered by Christianity). There are interesting arguments along these lines as to why we don´t all believe in Mithras, which was at a crucial time actually more popular in the Roman empire than Christianity.
None of this has anything to say about the content of these beliefs, but may help to understand why certain beliefs fall in or out of favour over time and in different societies (the rise of fundamentalist Islam is just one highly relevant example, especially when contrasted with the declining importance of mainstream Christianity in Europe).
CB
I was not actually trying to start a serious discussion of the subject, but here goes:
I guess the Raelians were a) too late, and b) their religion does not benefit the modern, post enlightenment society they live in (society as in its organizational structure, not necessarily individual people within it).
Humans are biased by evolution to accept explanations invoking a higher power as a byproduct of assigning agency to everything (it is clearly adaptive to think the noise outside the cave may be the bear coming home rather than just a noise). It is therefore not surprising that many people start looking elsewhere, including new age BS, when the explanatory power of traditional religion disappears. In many respects this is just another example where the evolutionary baggage we carry from our days in the trees still shines through.
As societies form, some religions have properties that render them beneficial to the society they develop in, and are in turn reinforced by these societies (e.g., "Render unto Caesar..." and the deferred hope for a better life offered by Christianity). There are interesting arguments along these lines as to why we don´t all believe in Mithras, which was at a crucial time actually more popular in the Roman empire than Christianity.
None of this has anything to say about the content of these beliefs, but may help to understand why certain beliefs fall in or out of favour over time and in different societies (the rise of fundamentalist Islam is just one highly relevant example, especially when contrasted with the declining importance of mainstream Christianity in Europe).
CB
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In reply to David Martin:
A placebo is accepted and useful insofar as it is used in trials as a way of comparison with an other treatment. Using a placebo to treat something over a drug with known and tested efficacy is both wrong and unethical.
A placebo is accepted and useful insofar as it is used in trials as a way of comparison with an other treatment. Using a placebo to treat something over a drug with known and tested efficacy is both wrong and unethical.
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In reply to higherclimbingwales:
Even when all you're trying to treat is mild anxiety?
jk
> A placebo is accepted and useful insofar as it is used in trials as a way of comparison with an other treatment. Using a placebo to treat something over a drug with known and tested efficacy is both wrong and unethical.
Even when all you're trying to treat is mild anxiety?
jk
In reply to jkarran:
well, It doesn't necessarily need to be a drug, it could be any intervention that has been shown to be more effective. So to answer your question, yes, even mild anxiety. in clinical terms, a placebo is a failure - anything that performs no better than a placebo doesn't work.
well, It doesn't necessarily need to be a drug, it could be any intervention that has been shown to be more effective. So to answer your question, yes, even mild anxiety. in clinical terms, a placebo is a failure - anything that performs no better than a placebo doesn't work.
As a typical Gemini, I don't believe in all this bollocks.
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In reply to Reach>Talent:
Yes, it was from a defective NHS thermometer
> Sounds like a RIDDOR to me, I hope you notified the HSE!
Yes, it was from a defective NHS thermometer
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In reply to higherclimbingwales:
Whilst this is true, there is a marked improvement from no treatment to placebo, hence the use of placebos in trials rather than doing nothing.
Hence people taking sugar pills rather than pain killers report reduction in headaches etc.
Whilst this is true, there is a marked improvement from no treatment to placebo, hence the use of placebos in trials rather than doing nothing.
Hence people taking sugar pills rather than pain killers report reduction in headaches etc.
In reply to TomBaker:
Apart from placebos are rarely used. Generally it is the current best option.
In addition they are used to allow for double blinding of the experiment.
> Whilst this is true, there is a marked improvement from no treatment to placebo, hence the use of placebos in trials rather than doing nothing.
Apart from placebos are rarely used. Generally it is the current best option.
In addition they are used to allow for double blinding of the experiment.
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In reply to Billy the fish:
To me the best bit is where he is saying that Brian Cox only calls it rubbish because he have not studied it.
To me the best bit is where he is saying that Brian Cox only calls it rubbish because he have not studied it.
In reply to Billy the fish:
oh no! this is my local MP.
He's another old Etonian and Guardsman who's been elected for the last 100 years and will certainly get in next time again, assuming he's standing.
I want to weep.
oh no! this is my local MP.
He's another old Etonian and Guardsman who's been elected for the last 100 years and will certainly get in next time again, assuming he's standing.
I want to weep.
In reply to TomBaker:
What dissonance said above.
I highly recommend reading Ben Goldacre's books, 'Bad Science' and 'Bad Pharma' for a run down on placebos and clinical trials, also, Simon Singh's book 'Trick or Treatment' is very good at explaining the purpose of placebo in clinical trials.
What dissonance said above.
I highly recommend reading Ben Goldacre's books, 'Bad Science' and 'Bad Pharma' for a run down on placebos and clinical trials, also, Simon Singh's book 'Trick or Treatment' is very good at explaining the purpose of placebo in clinical trials.
> Whilst this is true, there is a marked improvement from no treatment to placebo, hence the use of placebos in trials rather than doing nothing.
> Hence people taking sugar pills rather than pain killers report reduction in headaches etc.
In reply to Babika:
Not only that. He has an Oxford degree and and MBA. The mind boggles…..
> oh no! this is my local MP.
> He's another old Etonian and Guardsman who's been elected for the last 100 years and will certainly get in next time again, assuming he's standing.
> I want to weep.
Not only that. He has an Oxford degree and and MBA. The mind boggles…..
In reply to Postmanpat:
According to Wikipedia, he told Parliament in October 2009 that blood does not clot under a full moon.
But hey, he's an Old Etonian, so he must be a splendid fellow.
According to Wikipedia, he told Parliament in October 2009 that blood does not clot under a full moon.
But hey, he's an Old Etonian, so he must be a splendid fellow.
In reply to Postmanpat:
In what, how to be a complete woo-merchant yet hold onto a parliamentary seat as an MP?
> Not only that. He has an Oxford degree and and MBA. The mind boggles…..
In what, how to be a complete woo-merchant yet hold onto a parliamentary seat as an MP?
In reply to dissonance:
Placebos are used all the time; it's often referred to as "homeopathy". ;O)
> Apart from placebos are rarely used.
Placebos are used all the time; it's often referred to as "homeopathy". ;O)
In reply to deepsoup:
Gotta reprise the old joke about the homeopathic patient who forgot to take their medication.
Died of an overdose.
Gotta reprise the old joke about the homeopathic patient who forgot to take their medication.
Died of an overdose.
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In reply to higherclimbingwales:
Noo, that's scientific definition getting in the way of logical thought. You only want a treatment that is *good enough*, so if a placebo makes lots of people who are think they are ill but aren't into people who are well then great.
The problem is the side effects. If we give them Asprin and they feel better they believe that sciece has cured them. If we give them astrology and they feel better they believe in astrology. Can we really afford to have that happen?
Noo, that's scientific definition getting in the way of logical thought. You only want a treatment that is *good enough*, so if a placebo makes lots of people who are think they are ill but aren't into people who are well then great.
The problem is the side effects. If we give them Asprin and they feel better they believe that sciece has cured them. If we give them astrology and they feel better they believe in astrology. Can we really afford to have that happen?
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