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So, any shops seen any of theses? UKC going to have one for testing? DMM say March as a delivery but nothing specific.
Need a 2nd plate and these look to be the same price range as reversos and atc guides, and they are suitably shiny.
Need a 2nd plate and these look to be the same price range as reversos and atc guides, and they are suitably shiny.
In reply to fire_munki:
We had a play with one at the DMM stand at The Outdoor Show last month.
Very impressed, the lowering action in particular is superb. First impressions are also that it had a smoother feed with thicker ropes than the Reverso 4 (which admittedly isn't hard).
I'll probably buy one but until I've pulled a kilometre or two of 10mm+ rope through one I can't say for certain that I'll completely discard my slick and easy to feed Kong GiGi in favour of it.
We had a play with one at the DMM stand at The Outdoor Show last month.
Very impressed, the lowering action in particular is superb. First impressions are also that it had a smoother feed with thicker ropes than the Reverso 4 (which admittedly isn't hard).
I'll probably buy one but until I've pulled a kilometre or two of 10mm+ rope through one I can't say for certain that I'll completely discard my slick and easy to feed Kong GiGi in favour of it.
Post edited at 18:08
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
Cool, just now to wait (and then wait some more) for them to arrive in the shops.
Cool, just now to wait (and then wait some more) for them to arrive in the shops.
In reply to fire_munki:
I'm a big fan of DMM's kit, they don't ever go far wrong with their designs, but they do have form for promising something new is about to be available - even putting it in the catalogues - and then never actually getting the product to market! So hopefully the Pivot will be in shops this month, but maybe don't hold your breath! I'm still waiting for the Shadow Smart or whatever it was going to be called, and their ice screws with flip out handles...
I'm a big fan of DMM's kit, they don't ever go far wrong with their designs, but they do have form for promising something new is about to be available - even putting it in the catalogues - and then never actually getting the product to market! So hopefully the Pivot will be in shops this month, but maybe don't hold your breath! I'm still waiting for the Shadow Smart or whatever it was going to be called, and their ice screws with flip out handles...
In reply to fire_munki:
I'm interested in the Grip (belay device) - any ideas on whether that will be released soon? If not why not? It said March on the website....
I'm interested in the Grip (belay device) - any ideas on whether that will be released soon? If not why not? It said March on the website....
In reply to kylo-342:
It wasn't on the stand at ISPO so not sure on that one. The Pivot however was there and it's got to be said, it's a really excellent piece of kit at first look. I can't imagine they would even thing about dropping that one - they're going to sell that one hand over fist...
It wasn't on the stand at ISPO so not sure on that one. The Pivot however was there and it's got to be said, it's a really excellent piece of kit at first look. I can't imagine they would even thing about dropping that one - they're going to sell that one hand over fist...
In reply to fire_munki:
It should be available soon. You can preorder it here: http://www.dicksclimbing.com/products/dmm-pivot-belay-device
It should be available soon. You can preorder it here: http://www.dicksclimbing.com/products/dmm-pivot-belay-device
In reply to PPP:
They appear to be the only place so far, I wonder if DMM will see this and chip in?
They appear to be the only place so far, I wonder if DMM will see this and chip in?
Dick's Climbing say the Grip will be released in July. A DMM rep told me the other week that it had to go back into development for some reason.
In reply to sean1:
Shadow something anyway... Shadow Secure - that might have been it. Basically your standard (and great) Shadow straight gate krab but with a tiny gadget in the gate that you clicked and it would lock. Not quite as strong as a screw gate but seemed a great idea for first bolts and the like. But DMM had pics in the catalogue but could never get it quite to work to the standard they wanted.
Shadow something anyway... Shadow Secure - that might have been it. Basically your standard (and great) Shadow straight gate krab but with a tiny gadget in the gate that you clicked and it would lock. Not quite as strong as a screw gate but seemed a great idea for first bolts and the like. But DMM had pics in the catalogue but could never get it quite to work to the standard they wanted.
In reply to Colza:
I got a Pivot yesterday for reviewing for UKC https://twitter.com/TobyinHelsinki/status/583944758848028672
It was packed on a display card, i.e. for hanging on the shelves of shops, so presumably DMM are shipping these to shops right now. So I suspect they will be available for sale either already, or very soon, at least in some shops.
I got a Pivot yesterday for reviewing for UKC https://twitter.com/TobyinHelsinki/status/583944758848028672
It was packed on a display card, i.e. for hanging on the shelves of shops, so presumably DMM are shipping these to shops right now. So I suspect they will be available for sale either already, or very soon, at least in some shops.
1
In reply to TobyA:
I know it will be reviewed shortly, but do you have any first impressions on skinny ropes (8.1mm)?
BD ATC Guide works quite well for what I need, but lowering someone in a guide mode after a challenging route requires some Herculean strength...
I know it will be reviewed shortly, but do you have any first impressions on skinny ropes (8.1mm)?
BD ATC Guide works quite well for what I need, but lowering someone in a guide mode after a challenging route requires some Herculean strength...
In reply to PPP:
Afraid not, I haven't been able to persuade my family to come and dangle off some ropes for me to test it properly yet I'm afraid.
Afraid not, I haven't been able to persuade my family to come and dangle off some ropes for me to test it properly yet I'm afraid.
In reply to PPP:
I had a go with a deadweight sack at the Freidrichshafen show and I was impressed how easy and smooth it was to release. I know it's not a real world test, or comparative, but it was noticeably easy.
I had a go with a deadweight sack at the Freidrichshafen show and I was impressed how easy and smooth it was to release. I know it's not a real world test, or comparative, but it was noticeably easy.
In reply to Casa Alfredino:
It's so rare that I've needed to lower someone when using a belay plate guide style that I can't remember how difficult it is or isn't with non pivot devices.
I remember well over a decade ago not being able to lower someone on the first Reverso that came out which is why all have krab holes to make a handle since. I think I've lowered someone on Mega Jul without any big issues but will try it comparatively when I get to try the Pivot in that mode.
It's so rare that I've needed to lower someone when using a belay plate guide style that I can't remember how difficult it is or isn't with non pivot devices.
I remember well over a decade ago not being able to lower someone on the first Reverso that came out which is why all have krab holes to make a handle since. I think I've lowered someone on Mega Jul without any big issues but will try it comparatively when I get to try the Pivot in that mode.
In reply to TobyA:
I remember doing it with an ATC Guide and it was ok once you get it started but it's not the easiest thing to do. The impression I got wasthat the Pivot really made it a lot easier to start and control. But that may have been because of the lightness of the bag they were using, although it must have been a good 30-40kg bag?
I remember doing it with an ATC Guide and it was ok once you get it started but it's not the easiest thing to do. The impression I got wasthat the Pivot really made it a lot easier to start and control. But that may have been because of the lightness of the bag they were using, although it must have been a good 30-40kg bag?
In reply to TobyA:
No worries!
The difficulty is to keep the speed constant and it's quite difficult if you can't exactly see your second, so you have to guess that it's not too quick. I wouldn't buy another belay plate, but my current BD ATC Guide is showing signs of wear and I wouldn't mind an upgrade.
No worries!
The difficulty is to keep the speed constant and it's quite difficult if you can't exactly see your second, so you have to guess that it's not too quick. I wouldn't buy another belay plate, but my current BD ATC Guide is showing signs of wear and I wouldn't mind an upgrade.
In reply to fire_munki:
Has anyone seen or tried one of these? http://www.climbingtechnology.com/en-US/climbing/belay-devices-be-up.html They seem to aim at doing the same thing as the Pivot if I understand it correctly.
Has anyone seen or tried one of these? http://www.climbingtechnology.com/en-US/climbing/belay-devices-be-up.html They seem to aim at doing the same thing as the Pivot if I understand it correctly.
1
In reply to TobyA:
Yeah - they couldn't make it work... but Edelrid did manage it https://climbinggearreviewsuk.wordpress.com/2014/08/07/edelrid-pure-slider/ and of course there is the delightfully bonkers Grivel Twin Gate now.
Toby A: "I'm a big fan of DMM's kit, they don't ever go far wrong with their designs, "
Have you ever used the hateful V-twin? They don't always get it right!
> Shadow something anyway... Shadow Secure - that might have been it. Basically your standard (and great) Shadow straight gate krab but with a tiny gadget in the gate that you clicked and it would lock. Not quite as strong as a screw gate but seemed a great idea for first bolts and the like. But DMM had pics in the catalogue but could never get it quite to work to the standard they wanted.
Yeah - they couldn't make it work... but Edelrid did manage it https://climbinggearreviewsuk.wordpress.com/2014/08/07/edelrid-pure-slider/ and of course there is the delightfully bonkers Grivel Twin Gate now.
Toby A: "I'm a big fan of DMM's kit, they don't ever go far wrong with their designs, "
Have you ever used the hateful V-twin? They don't always get it right!
In reply to petellis:
Haha! No I haven't - is it terrible? I don't think I've heard anyone else complain about them. Actually my last DMM belay device if I think about it a Bettabrake from the early 90s. I still have it somewhere but I'm sure it would feel very grabby these days.
> Have you ever used the hateful V-twin? They don't always get it right!
Haha! No I haven't - is it terrible? I don't think I've heard anyone else complain about them. Actually my last DMM belay device if I think about it a Bettabrake from the early 90s. I still have it somewhere but I'm sure it would feel very grabby these days.
In reply to TobyA:
You could call the v-twin "reassuring" since it has a lot of holding power. But that comes with the added bonus of being snatchy with a lot of ropes, with a 10 mm galaxy it will occasionally lock solid.
I assume that the investment cast steel design was thought up by the same guy that took a load of acid and fired up the CNC machine to produce the old preadator axe. He's taking less drugs these days but he still gets a hit in now and then. Maybe he moved to Grivel though, I'm going to buy one of those twin-gates just to bamboozle my friends on sport routes I think.
You could call the v-twin "reassuring" since it has a lot of holding power. But that comes with the added bonus of being snatchy with a lot of ropes, with a 10 mm galaxy it will occasionally lock solid.
I assume that the investment cast steel design was thought up by the same guy that took a load of acid and fired up the CNC machine to produce the old preadator axe. He's taking less drugs these days but he still gets a hit in now and then. Maybe he moved to Grivel though, I'm going to buy one of those twin-gates just to bamboozle my friends on sport routes I think.
2
In reply to fire_munki:
DMM posted on Twitter that the first Pivots had come back from anodising around 3 weeks ago, so I guess it can't be that long before they are ready to be shipped to retailers.
Seen prototypes of both devices and as you would expect from DMM they looked great and were nice to use.
DMM posted on Twitter that the first Pivots had come back from anodising around 3 weeks ago, so I guess it can't be that long before they are ready to be shipped to retailers.
Seen prototypes of both devices and as you would expect from DMM they looked great and were nice to use.
In reply to fire_munki:
I am also curious why does DMM state that it's the best to use DMM Rhino in guide mode: "Recommended with the Rhino for smooth action in guide mode" ( http://dmmclimbing.com/documents/read-now-work-later-2014-2015.pdf ).
I always used HMS carabiner (Boa, BD Gridlock, Aero or anything else) with BD ATC Guide and imagine any HMS carabiner should work quite okay with DMM Pivot too. Rhino is esentially HMS as well, but it's less curved than DMM Aero or Boa. It's just not the lightest HMS screwgate for multi-pitch/alpine environment. Though it doesn't do much difference as it's only one carabiner in your rack (compared to wiregates, if you opt for even 5g lighter ones, you would potentially save couple hundred grams).
I am also curious why does DMM state that it's the best to use DMM Rhino in guide mode: "Recommended with the Rhino for smooth action in guide mode" ( http://dmmclimbing.com/documents/read-now-work-later-2014-2015.pdf ).
I always used HMS carabiner (Boa, BD Gridlock, Aero or anything else) with BD ATC Guide and imagine any HMS carabiner should work quite okay with DMM Pivot too. Rhino is esentially HMS as well, but it's less curved than DMM Aero or Boa. It's just not the lightest HMS screwgate for multi-pitch/alpine environment. Though it doesn't do much difference as it's only one carabiner in your rack (compared to wiregates, if you opt for even 5g lighter ones, you would potentially save couple hundred grams).
In reply to PPP:
Because the horn will help prevent the carabiner rotating to the i beam section and away from the round bar which is better for wear?
Because the horn will help prevent the carabiner rotating to the i beam section and away from the round bar which is better for wear?
In reply to PPP:
Well think about it, when you're using it in guide mode, the carabiner can rotate around so that you're running rope over the spine of the carabiner - if the spine is a fancy i-beam shape, you've got less metal so it will wear, or not lock as effectively. The rhino will stop that... don't know if that's the reason, but I bet it's got something to do with it...
Well think about it, when you're using it in guide mode, the carabiner can rotate around so that you're running rope over the spine of the carabiner - if the spine is a fancy i-beam shape, you've got less metal so it will wear, or not lock as effectively. The rhino will stop that... don't know if that's the reason, but I bet it's got something to do with it...
In reply to beardy mike:
Well, I believe they wouldn't say "for smooth action" then. You might be right, but some screwgates even feature I-beam construction on their top bit (Mammut Mythos, Wild Country Helix, DMM Sentinel, Edelrid Strike etc.). it doesn't look like that manufacturers really care about the wear on the I-beam construction (or they do care about you buying a new belay carabiner because the former one is worn!).
I realize that I usually keep my hand on the rope (to avoid having slack) anyway so there's no huge gap between the belay plate and carabiner. If it's loaded, it will never rotate either. I also try not to do multiple things while belaying (no matter with what device), so I keep an eye at the system most of the time. Even while climbing at the wall, I glance at the gate more than once while my partner climbs a single route - I finally have an OCD which isn't harmful!
Also, I would be more concerned about loading on the gate side because of two reasons.
Firstly, running the rope over the gate bit would unscrew the screwgate (as you can insert the screwgate from the left or right, it would either loosen or tighten the gate) and you might be unfortunate to drop your partner if unlocked screwgate hits a bulge or something.
Secondly, screwgate is really weakened if it's loaded on a gate side. Unless you belay a second with a kitchen sink attached to him/her, the carabiner would still be strong enough. If I recall correctly, it's at least couple of kN which is still a lot on a system where shock loading is not likely to happen.
However, I have never heard of either situation happening. Both situations require a high level of inattentiveness and stupidity combined!
Well, I believe they wouldn't say "for smooth action" then. You might be right, but some screwgates even feature I-beam construction on their top bit (Mammut Mythos, Wild Country Helix, DMM Sentinel, Edelrid Strike etc.). it doesn't look like that manufacturers really care about the wear on the I-beam construction (or they do care about you buying a new belay carabiner because the former one is worn!).
I realize that I usually keep my hand on the rope (to avoid having slack) anyway so there's no huge gap between the belay plate and carabiner. If it's loaded, it will never rotate either. I also try not to do multiple things while belaying (no matter with what device), so I keep an eye at the system most of the time. Even while climbing at the wall, I glance at the gate more than once while my partner climbs a single route - I finally have an OCD which isn't harmful!
Also, I would be more concerned about loading on the gate side because of two reasons.
Firstly, running the rope over the gate bit would unscrew the screwgate (as you can insert the screwgate from the left or right, it would either loosen or tighten the gate) and you might be unfortunate to drop your partner if unlocked screwgate hits a bulge or something.
Secondly, screwgate is really weakened if it's loaded on a gate side. Unless you belay a second with a kitchen sink attached to him/her, the carabiner would still be strong enough. If I recall correctly, it's at least couple of kN which is still a lot on a system where shock loading is not likely to happen.
However, I have never heard of either situation happening. Both situations require a high level of inattentiveness and stupidity combined!
In reply to fire_munki:
It looks like it's going to become available very soon. EpicTV shop said that they received them today and they will be available within couple of days - also cheaper than other shops.
It looks like it's going to become available very soon. EpicTV shop said that they received them today and they will be available within couple of days - also cheaper than other shops.
1
In reply to fire_munki:
Looks like they are becoming available soon.
https://www.facebook.com/dmmclimbing/photos/a.191468200900971.48257.1209043...
Looks like they are becoming available soon.
https://www.facebook.com/dmmclimbing/photos/a.191468200900971.48257.1209043...
In reply to PPP:
Did I link this above? https://twitter.com/TobyinHelsinki/status/589192010432700417/photo/1 Just a little tease for those of you who seem very excited about the Pivot!
Also lowered someone off using it in guide mode for the first time on Saturday, although it was a smallish child (my son!) so not sure if that counts as a true test.
Did I link this above? https://twitter.com/TobyinHelsinki/status/589192010432700417/photo/1 Just a little tease for those of you who seem very excited about the Pivot!
Also lowered someone off using it in guide mode for the first time on Saturday, although it was a smallish child (my son!) so not sure if that counts as a true test.
In reply to fire_munki:
Does anyone know if the dmm mantis is due out any time soon. I'm after a new belay device but am not sure I personally can see the need for a guide plate for my climbing (unless someone wants to convince me otherwise!).
Does anyone know if the dmm mantis is due out any time soon. I'm after a new belay device but am not sure I personally can see the need for a guide plate for my climbing (unless someone wants to convince me otherwise!).
In reply to TobyA:
It looks like I am the only psyched about it. As most of my friends are inexperienced, I probably lower someone more often than others.
Awaiting the review, but I have pre-ordered it already. Can't wait for it!
It looks like I am the only psyched about it. As most of my friends are inexperienced, I probably lower someone more often than others.
Awaiting the review, but I have pre-ordered it already. Can't wait for it!
In reply to Otis:
I wasn't sold by the idea at first either (and for some reason, British people don't like it?). However, I find guide mode brilliant and it helps you to escape the system easier (well, you always hope you never have to do that!).
It's also less awkward to belay the second.
I wasn't sold by the idea at first either (and for some reason, British people don't like it?). However, I find guide mode brilliant and it helps you to escape the system easier (well, you always hope you never have to do that!).
It's also less awkward to belay the second.
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