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Follow-up to "unusual strategy for starting ski touring" thread

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 tnewmark 22 Mar 2015
I posted a message in December last year about how to start ski touring with a wife who is keen but just has one week of skiing under her belt. The thread has been archived so I can't reply to it now.

Just as an update, we decided to postpone the ski touring and do a conventional week of piste skiing in Les Arcs. My wife now has two weeks under her belt and skied a black at the end of the week, and now just needs a bit of off-piste practice.

The best bit of the trip though was a little mini tour we did. My friend and I on touring gear, my wife and another friend on snow shoes. We had though we would part ways at some point but we actually stayed together the whole morning, although we had to wait for them on the decent. The week of piste skiing was fun, but didn't come close to that one day away from the crowds! Such a sense of accomplishment and even though the descent was on rather narrow tracks and there was very little fresh powder to be found even when it opened up, it was so fun that you can get down so quickly. Started fairly early at about 7am, and only saw three other tourers later on around lunch time.

Now we're back we're thinking of what to do next. I think the best plan is for a few of us who are keen to hire a guide for a long weekend, and base ourselves either in a valley or a hut. What we save on a lift pass (plus all those expensive meals in restaurants on the mountain that we don't really care about) can go some way to paying for the guide.

I'm looking back at the recommendations on the other thread, but if there are any other suggestions for where to start, that'd be much appreciated. The idea that was suggested to be based in a resort to get some lift-served off-piste and then go off on day tours might be the way to go. But we just want to get away from the resorts as quickly as we can.

 Elsier 22 Mar 2015
In reply to tnewmark:

I would recommend Ariege in the Pyrenees.

I'm fairly new to skiing with only about 4-5 weeks on snow in total and this year I went to Ariege on holiday. We skied on piste at Ax Les Thermes for a few days, and then went touring with a guide, which was amazing! We joined a group of french skiers which made the guiding a bit cheaper, but if there's a few of you, it might no be too expensive just to go independently and they can then tailor it more to your needs.

We also did a bit of climbing, it's a great sport for a mixed activity holiday and the mountains seemed really quiet unlike a lot of places I've been in the Alps.
 Gael Force 23 Mar 2015
In reply to tnewmark:

Still doubt your wife will be up to any off piste you'll need a guide for unfortunately...perhaps side country at first, there's a good off piste guide for Les Arcs and other Tarantaise resorts...
 Casa Alfredino 24 Mar 2015
In reply to tnewmark:

Firstly good on you for getting out there and giving it a go! Secondly, Gael Force is right, there is a world of difference between piste skiing and off piste. The main thing is that any faults in your piste skiing will show up like a sore thumb when you get off piste, which will often lead to crashes gallore and frustration! Get some side country in and then by the end of that week of doing side country, perhaps further and further from the piste, thats the time to spend your money. The worst result you could have here is that your wife gets discouraged and throws the towel in because she finds it too hard! The trouble with touring is whilst you don't have to be Lindsey Vonn or Rachel Gleich, you do need to be able turn where you WANT to turn, and be able to do it safely, in conditions which are usually far from perfect, in a rapidly changing snowpack which can be powder one second where the sun hasn't gotten to it behind a gully wall, to hard wind blown slab within a metre. That said its a fun process learning, as long as you take it steady and put in the ground work. What could be better than skiing?

So where to go. I'm massively biased because I own a place in the Dolomites, and thats where I'd recommend. But here's why.

Good skiing. The Dolomites is the largest linked ski resort in Europe, if not the world. It is massive. The pistes are very well prepared, and you can ski uninterrupted for an eternity. We've had comments from well travelled skiers (including the ex head of army skiing) that its the best skiing they have done anywhere.

Cost. That massive lift pass is cheaper than any french lift pass. Seriously, check it out at Dolomiti Superski. Not only that but accomodation is a reasonable price and food is a normal price, not 8 euros for a punnet of chips. For that you get a proper meal.

Variety. Speaking about our place now, we're not IN a resort, but we are within a half hour drive from Malga Ciapela, Alleghe and the Civetta Zoldo Range, Arraba, Canazei and the Sella pass, Pozza di Fassa, Passo Falzarego and Falcade. You can ski fresh pistes every day without ever repeating runs.

Off piste. We are five minutes from the lift at Malga Ciapela, the lift to the top of. Marmolada. This only has one run down which is often crowded. So why would I recommend it? The lift is a three stage lift that gives you 2200m of uplift in one hit and dumps you onto the largest glacier in the Dolomites. As its several KM wide, it means you have a wide open slope which is less skied than any slopes in resort in France. It means in terms of side country you can ski a familiar piece of terrain repeatedly, getting further and further from the groomed slopes and build confidence. Once you get bored of Marmolada you can go over to Arabba from Malga Ciapela which is famous for steeper skiing, and which has many off piste runs. From here the Sella Group is an easy target, where you can ski routes like Val Lasties, Val Mezdi, Val Setus and many others, all lift served with the odd walk along often well trodden tracks as its a fairly popular "tour" albeit it one you dont have to use skins or touring skis for. Take a guide with you and they will be able to recommend the best thing to do, but these tours are what I would consider sking to be all about. Stunning scenery, a mountain journey and a fun day out.

If you fare well on that day, our local rental shop also rents out touring gear, so by the last day you should be ready for a proper tour. For this straight out of the house you have excellent back country to the south skiing from Malga ciapela you can go towards Falcade over one of the passes, or up to Malga Ombretta beneath the south face of Marmolada, or up Sasso Bianco. Or if you feel confident enough you cousld look at the two day tour around Civetta.

And when you get bored of that you can go ice climbing in the Serrai di Sottoguda which is five minutes from the house and only has 30 plus routes to be getting on with. But that's never going to happen right ?

Cheers,

Mike
 HeMa 24 Mar 2015
In reply to tnewmark:

My advice is mileage... For her and off-piste. The easiest way to achieve this is ski side-country from a resort. And also ski on the groomers, when they are really icy, cruddy and nasty.

This will make the transition to proper touring a much nicer experience. After all, going up is generally rather easy (for ski-touring, not necessary true for ski-mountaineering), but coming down when a tad tired and on non optimal conditions can be rather challenging. This is in my opinion the thing to fix, so she can actually enjoy the downhill as well.

After all, for majority the sole purpose of ski-touring is to get a good run down.

So, I would head to a smaller resort in the Alps (or a bigger one in Swe/Nor), rent a chalet... cook dinners there and make baguettes or other lunch snacks. And then get her to ski as much as possible off groomers and every kind of snow.
 blurty 25 Mar 2015
In reply to tnewmark:
The comment above re: mileage is right. Your wife needs several weeks of skiing under her belt I'd suggest.

There is a good week long course run by Off-Piste Performance (AKA the famous Alison Culshaw) in Chamonix & also Scotland called something like 'Off piste skiing for Mountaineers'. It will help her (& maybe you!) get around off piste with some style.

Highly recommended.

Give Alison a call to see what she can offer

The other part of the equation is safety in the Mountains. When I started out a few years back I organised a trip with Rob Jarvis (High Mountain Guides). He taught us the basics (Given we'd been alpine climbing for years) and got us off to a really good start.
Post edited at 14:00
 aostaman 25 Mar 2015
In reply to tnewmark:

As you've discovered once you've left the pistes and ski toured, your view of piste ski-ing changes irrevocably. I do ski on piste with friends but it's not very interesting any more.

However you are in the mountains proper, it is not a controlled environment and that means all in the party need to be prepared.

Ski-ing ability is one thing but mountain / avalanche and weather skills are the things that pistes and even general fitness just don't help with.

The gear is also 'different' the boots and skis work slightly differently and generally the rental stuff although often good these days, is of course basic.

I was very lucky, I gained my skills and experience whilst living in Aosta (Italian western alps), going out with locals and doing some 'Club Alpine Italiano' courses. I am assuming you don't have access to these in Scotland for example and that your time is 'work vacation' based, apologies if I'm wrong

A guide or a course as others have suggested , will provide all of you with a transceiver, probes and shovel, (in some parts of Italy, it is a criminal offence for anyone to be off piste without this gear). Also insurance needs to be proper BMC type 'mountain insurance', do not rely on standard ski-ing insurance whatever anyone says.

I (like Casa Alfredino) could recommend any number of 'easy'/ 'safe' routes in my part of the world, but then you've got to rent gear, know how to use it. Little things like 'where do you park the car?? which way actually is the route, sometimes it's obvious, sometimes not.

He/she will take the hassle out of this and if they speak good English you'll learn a bit about mountain skills and you can enjoy what you are there for when time is limited.

Have fun and stay safe.
OP tnewmark 02 Apr 2015
In reply to tnewmark:

Thanks all for taking the time to share your views, especially but not only Casa Alfredino. Just to give you a bit more context, while I'm very keen on the descent, my wife is much more interested in the ascent. She's always been a bit scared of descending, whether that is on a road bike or on skis, but loves both the cardio aspect of going up, and just being out in the mountains away from people. In fact, she beat me to the top of Mt Ventoux on our honeymoon.

But what goes up must come down. While it doesn't necessarily need to be fun to come down, it does need to be tolerable for her, and I agree that some more off-piste mileage is necessary, especially as we won't be able to easily pick the route and the snow conditions we descend on.

So, I think another week of skiing, with a couple of day tours towards the end of the week. I'll look at the suggestions, but Italy has appealed to myself and my friend for a while now, so think that looks like a good option.

Many thanks again,

Tom
 MG 02 Apr 2015
In reply to tnewmark:

If your downhill ability is iffy but you are keen to go touring then one thing to get very good at is downhill kick turns. It is possible to traverse pretty much any snow however horrible and if you can kick turn at the end, you will get down. Eventually.

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