UKC

Hi,

I'm writing here in the hope of raising awareness about the general situation in Fontainebleau, especially since we're in the lead-up to the half-term holidays in the UK and Ireland.

I live in the Font area and while I usually go to lesser-known areas to find solace (though still well documented in all guidebooks), I do once in a while climb in popular places, like L'éléphant. But I don't do it very often as I'm sickened by what I see there: layer upon layer of chalk, climbers who don't brush the holds, who don't clean up their shoes before climbing, who listen to music on their phone, and groups cluttered around the same problems as everyone else (like Voie Michaud, Le coeur, L'éléphant and Lépreux).

The consequences are well known: holds become polished thus unusable or on the contrary deeper, making the routes easier (where's the fun in that?), and the overuse of chalk turns into a visual pollution, not only for climbers but also for other people trying to enjoy the forest (and there are many).

Now why am I writing this here? Because since I arrived in the area, 90% of all climbers I came across were foreigners, and I would say a good third of them were from the British isles. And I feel like they're either unaware of all this, or they just don't care.

This is why I urge anyone going to Font to please brush off the holds, clean up their shoes, go to lesser-known areas and try lesser-known problems. Seriously, where's the fun in going to overcrowded places, thus increasing erosion? Where's the fun in doing the very same problems as every one else (I mean come on, L'éléphant is a boring problem)? Why go to Isatis, Cuisinière or Cuvier when there's dozens of places that are as good as those and have more problems than you could do in a week? The only reason why these areas are more developed is because they're closer to Font and were discovered earlier, it doesn't mean that they have better problems.

Also, please refrain from camping at carparks because it's forbidden (there's cheap campings and even free authorized bivouacs), lighting up fires because it's forbidden and dangerous, and climbing at night because it disturbs the fragile wildlife and is also forbidden.

I'm obviously not pointing the finger at anyone in particular, nor am I demonizing foreigners (my fellow countrymen can be just as empty-headed), I'm just trying to raise awareness about the situation (which is nothing new) for fear that ultimately, the authorities might use sanctions or restrict some areas. Imagine if the Peak District was as popular as Font...

All the best,
Adrien

In reply to Adrien:

There's no excuse for not brushing holds, leaving litter or being anti-social. Avoiding the honey-traps is trickier. I always make sure that on any trip I go to at least two new areas, but it's hard when on holiday to wean yourself away from the popular and well known venues. Going to Font is a treat for me, it only happens once a year, so I kind of feel obliged to make sure that I get the most out of it. I've done my fair share of failing to find an obscure crag, or got there to discover that it's mossy and overgrown. I think one of the problems is that the entire place has got busier as bouldering has become more popular - 10 years ago you could go to Cuisinière mid-week and be the only team there, and same applies for parts of Apremont. It's a whole different ball game these days, and I'm not sure what the answer is. If you've got any tips for good unpopular venues, I'm eager to hear about them!

In reply to Adrien:

I went to Font last year and have decided that it would probably be my last trip there because of the problems you highlight. I have been going there almost every year for the last 30 years and it has changed for the worse beyond all recognition. Even the more remote areas you refer to are starting to become crowded as more and more people try to avoid the honey spots,

The rate at which the rock has become polished is staggering. Font used to be famous for it's exceptional friction, not so much now. One of the biggest causes is people dogging moves they can't do. Yes, have a go but if you can't do it in style without scrabbling move on, don't spend ages trying it over and over again each time causing a tiny bit of erosion/polish.

I agree with you about the excessive use of chalk, it looks awful.

The other thing is the shit and shit paper. The forest and crevices around the climbing areas are becoming a big outdoor toilet. On a hot day with the flies this is becoming downright unpleasant, not to mention the health risk.

In reply to Adrien:

You find more Brits climbing in the Peak but less toilet paper dotted about... oui?

In reply to mrchewy:

I can't compare but my kid loves the Peak caves and sadly they tend to have a liberal share of loo paper topped turds.

In reply to danm:

I think there's no magic bullet with Font being so close to Paris (i.e so accessible). Besides it's not just climbers crowding the place, go to Dame Jouanne on a Sunday and you'll see children running around, hikers, horseriders.

Litter is a HUGE problem. Yesterday I went to Restant du long rocher for the first one (great place by the way, though moss is coming back...) and found a printer and two PC towers off a "path". There's actually an observatory to report this and other violations (like construction firms dumping rubble and other waste). But in the long run I don't know what we can do as it's a question of changing people's mindset, which takes generations to accomplish. I'm convinced it's about the culture; I'm pretty sure theses discharges of rubbish would never happen in a country like Norway for instance. In terms of measures, I was thinking maybe rangers could roam around the forest.

In terms of good unpopular venues, I haven't been to all of them yet but I suggest just trying those close to popular areas that will likely sport similar features. So, instead of going to Roche aux sabots, why not go to 95.2, 91.1, Rocher Guichot, Rocher fin, Potala... If you want lots of problems, Rocher d'Avon is a big area (divided in three sections in the 5+6 guidebook), though a bit mossy. Mont Aigu is on the other side of the Gorges de Franchard and has lots of cool problems too; etc etc. Again these are not hidden areas! I'm not a big fan of hacking my way through the forest myself. But I think it would be good to just divert part of the flow of climbers towards contiguous areas (Cuisinière/Isatis> Sablons/Haute-Plaines/Raymond/Meyer).

Trangia: Yeh I can see why one would be sickened by all this. Plus everyone comes around the same time (which is fair since winter, despite being amazing in terms of friction, is veeeeeeery unstable weatherwise - not to mention the presence of those darned hunters). But this winter I've managed to spend an entire afternoon alone in L'éléphant, so it's feasible if you're willing to risk being stranded because of rain...

mrchewy: I think an awful lot more climbers flock to Font than to the Peak District, the human pressure cannot be compared. And like I said, I'm not demonizing anyone (I've lived long enough in Britain to see beyond the Anglo-French "rivalry" ), I'm just saying that I've seen much more foreigners than locals climbing (I was actually extremely surprised by that), which is why I'm trying to reach people who only come on and off and might no be aware about the rules and the consequences of their attitude. I believe 90% of them are Brits, Germans or Spaniards, with the odd American or Nordic.

In reply to danm:

I agree with the general sentiments of the thread, but its too simplistic to just say don't go the classic areas. Cuvier may be polished but I will always remember doing Marie Rose because of the history attached to it. It seems unfair to seek to deny others the chance (and right) to go and do it. I also take small issue with Trangia's point about trying hard moves- isn't that the point of bouldering? Fairly sure many boulderers in England can't do the moves on their project to start with and work it out over time.

That said, these are just minor issues, and leaving the holds in a mess and not burying shit is inexcusable in any circumstances.

In reply to spidermonkey09:

Of course I'm not denying anyone the chance/right to go to the classic areas. I still haven't been to any of the Cuvier areas and won't even consider for another six months now that the winter is over. I just wonder why everybody feels compelled to go to the same places and do the same problems as everyone else. Maybe I'm just looking for something else than others when I'm bouldering but I doubt it, I just wanna have fun and push my limits (while enjoying this gorgeous nature). You talk about Marie Rose; my buddy told me how that one time he was there, he saw ten people queuing up to have a go at it, leaving their crash pads on the ground to queue. Why do this when you'd have as much/more fun sending two or three other problems that may be even better in the time it took you to reach the base of the Marie Rose boulder? I mean sure I guess it's cool to do it, but there must be about 800 boulders that are the same grade in the whole of Font. Look at what happened at the Bilboquet du Cul du Chien: since it's iconic everybody felt compelled to climb it and now it's fenced off because of erosion and the risks it poses. Now I'm aware this is not strictly related to the ethics issues I pinpointed and to each his own, but I feel like too many people are completely missing the point about Font (or any other bouldering area really); for many it's just about ticking off problems to update their 8a.nu profile, bragging about having done Anglophobie/Lépreux/Big Jim/etc, but I don't think their experience is complete as they didn't really take time to enjoy the forest. Might as well go to a boulder wall.

In reply to Adrien:

Okay - I happen to use the forest how you would like. First day there, I was taken to Marie Rose and wondered what all the fuss was about. It was busy (like an indoor wall), so I pottered off on my own. Then I had a quite day at 90 something or other before deciding I needed to have a proper nose around the forest and went running instead for four hours. I've spent a day at Oiseaux and saw no one, lovely boulders with little polish and right next to one of the busiest car parks. I've found myself lost whilst looking for areas off the beaten track and on other days found areas that are just moss covered due to no traffic.

I'd never accuse anyone of missing the point of Font tho, not because they like to tick their list or seek out other gregarious climbers. Everyone wants different things from the forest and your way or my way may well be someone else's waste of a trip.

Each to their own.

In reply to mrchewy:

Yeah I can understand why people wouldn't want to take a stab in the dark by trying a lesser-known area only to find the place covered with moss. I haven't been around long enough to have enough contacts to organize a "demossing" day but clearly we need more of those.

I realize I sounded a bit haughty; I guess what I was trying to say was that too often people are in a real frenzy trying to send as many problems as possible, as if they were in a giant climbing gym, unaware of the vast natural wealth of the forest (saw five roe deer at Mont aigu the other day, that would've been very unlikely at Cuvier; sit silent for five minutes and chances are a chaffinch or a robin will come hopping around barely noticing you).

In reply to Adrien:

I reckon many visitors to Font, and I would include myself in this, aren't really serious boulderers and so don't know a massive amount about the forest. For me certainly, a guidebook is overwhelming and gives me basically no information- as you say, there must be 800 problems of every grade! So the natural reaction for these occasional boulderers is to gravitate towards the 'normal' experience, which for many, rightly or wrongly, involves going to Elephant, Cuvier, Apremont. For me its no different to visitors to the Peak District going to Stanage/Froggatt and polishing up the classic routes there. I don't regret going there because as others have pointed out, I will only get to Font once a year and can't be arsed to get to an area off the beaten track to find it mossy and shite. I am all for adventure in climbing and going to new places, I make a conscious effort to do it when I go trad climbing, but when I'm on holiday in the sun (hopefully) overseas I just want an easy life and climb the odd boulder. I think for most people this is easier to come by at the well-travelled areas. Maybe the answer is a guidebook that deliberately excludes the famous areas?

In reply to Adrien:


The wild bits of Norway I've been too have been pretty tidy, but I'm sure they have problems with fly-tipping near cities as well. I lived in Finland for over a decade, and fly-tipping was a big problem around the edge of Helsinki, really depressing. I now live in Sheffield, and have seen lots of places where commercial waste has been dumped in the Peak District national park. Really depressing. So its a shame, but interesting, to hear that France has the same problem. Litter generally is worse in England than it is Finland though, but glad to see its not bad at cliffs! I really do think climbers are better than the British average at not dropping anything.

In reply to Adrien:

Haughty isn't the right word, I sensed where you are coming from and generally agree with your sentiments. It's just difficult when you are an obsessive boulderer to think about the bigger picture, although I've had my moments of just sitting in the forest listening to the noise it makes. I'm starting to get excited about my trip in 2 weeks time, and I'll make sure we visit some obscure places!

In reply to Adrien:
Malheuresement ce n'est plus Bleau mais Font!

In reply to spidermonkey09:

I completely understand why one would hesitate to go off the beaten track, but in my opinion Font is different in that almost everything has been normalized and put in one guidebook or another. Almost wherever you go, you'll find the name and grade of the problems in a guidebook, so you can go to any less popular area with the confidence that you'll try cool problems (unless maybe it's super small like Mare aux corneilles but there's dozens more). I think it's fairly unlikely the area you'll try is 'shite', though mossy is a possibility (it depends on the direction the boulders face and on how dense the tree cover is, but you should be fine if you stick to areas marked 'open' or 'quick-drying'). And some of those less popular (in terms of numbers) areas are as accessible as others. Maunoury comes to mind: it's just a 5mn walk after Dame Jouanne (itself a mere 2mn walk from the car park), which in turn is only a 2mn drive from L'éléphant (where you'll easily see 30 cars parked on a weekend). And yet I've been there three times and have litterally seen 3 climbers and the odd hiker, despite there being an orange, a blue and a red circuit, and great 6s and 7s.

Now I do agree that guidebooks have a 'responsibility' regarding which areas get overcrowded. The only one I own for now is 5+6 but I did have a look at other guidebooks, be they French or foreign, and they seem to all start with Cuvier, Apremont... Maybe if they presented, say, Bois rond and Restant du long rocher (or any other place) first, more people would go there. We stumbled upon David Atchinson-Jones last week while he was checking out Rocher des demoiselles, I think he wants to include new areas in his next edition of the Jingo Wobbly guide. We'll see if it makes any difference.

@TobyA: Guilty, I tend to idolize Nordic countries I'm sure they have their problems too (their baseless fear/hatred of wolves is one in Norway) but generally I think they're more outdoorsy than ze French and spend more time enjoying nature (the right to camp anywhere in the wild probably helps). But yeah litter is a massive problem everywhere, and climbers are not the only ones to blame. I keep reading on bleau.info how Cuvier has become a sort of meeting place for prostitutes and their clients, apparently there's lots of used condoms near the carpark.... Yuck. I agree that the general public is probably more to blame than climbers, but changing the mindset of the 60-odd million people who are not climbers here is gonna be tricky!

@danm: Hope you'll have a decent weather, it's been great lately (so much so that I had to stop climbing because my fingertips started bleeding profusely...) but is a bit more unsettled at the moment...

In reply to Trangia:


Although I must disagree with your thoughts on the cause of polish the above pretty much sums up my feelings.
Just glad that I got the chance to climb when I did. It's an awful time now to be a young climber.

In reply to Adrien:


Our approach tends to be to pick an area with orange and blue circuits and not too highball problems from the Baton Wicks / Montchausse guide. We've mostly been in the Trois Pignons (because we camp at Milly) and picked areas that suit the conditions at the time, but otherwise just go anywhere that we've not been to too many times before. Hence we haven't been adding to the crowds at Cuvier and Apremont particularly, but if there's a good way of finding further off-beat (and hence less polished) circuits then I'd be keen to know about it!

In reply to Adrien:




In all this discussion the far more important parts of the OPs appeal seem to have been lost in the noise. So I have re-iterated them above.
IMO the thorough cleaning of shoes and the carrying of a carpet, at all times, in order to make this possible is the most critical of these in terms of preserving the climbing