UKC

Any advice? So other than not filtering har de har. I was in a bike lane, drunk passenger opens door and as its only open 30 centimetres I cycle into the blade like end of the door. Shoulder took it all (bit worried it might be a serious injury and stop me climbing but not sure yet)

So I got number plate of driver who was giving party boy a lift. She's wasn't happy and wanted nothing to do with situation, got party Boys phone number and first name. He seemed happy at the time to pay for damage to bike but I wondered if he was just placating me.

Anyway, so sitting her with ice pack on shoulder and a beer. No idea what to do so I thought I'd post on UKC. Any idea what my legal route is for getting bike fixed (bent handle bar and buckled wheel) is driver responsible for passenger.

Also ouch this is painful as f*ck. I also just finished 12 hour shift in hospital and was going to pick up take away. Bad times.

In reply to Kemics:

It's an offence they have committed. If you are with CTC go through their lawyers , make sure you report incident to police since you were injured.

In reply to Orgsm:

What's CTC? I have bike insurance which I have a vague feeling includes legal cover but I have a need to dig out my policy documents which are somewhere

In reply to Kemics:

I had an incident a few years ago when a taxi passenger opened their door in to the side of my car. The taxi driver didn't want to admit responsibility for his passenger, but the insurance companies agreed it should come off his insurance. Hopefully yours will be a similar case with your insurers being able to help.

In reply to Kemics:

It's a civil matter, which means you really want somebody to be taking it on for you, ideally an insurance company. Failing that, a solicitor such as can be seen in pretty much every ad break on daytime TV (ie one that doesn't cost you anything out of pocket).

The problem is that in the cold light of day, the passenger will remember that you were a pedalling maniac, probably high on smack and riding without lights. So you need to report it to the police fairly sharpish, and if you have a proper diagnosis of your injuries, that'd help enormously. Make sure you report both individuals and mention that the driver refused to give her details - this is an offence under the Road Traffic Act. It also puts her on the back foot and makes her more likely to ensure that Party Boy coughs up.

Never, ever sue poor people. The passenger won't have any liability insurance, but the driver will. The driver was responsible for the position of the car and for depositing an obviously inebriated passenger into a cycle lane. As she was in the driving seat, she owed you a duty of care both to be aware of you and to ensure that you weren't put at risk of injury. She failed on both counts.

If you want reimbursement of costs, reporting to the police and a reasonable letter to the passenger will probably suffice; if it's compensation for injury-related financial loss and suffering, it'll definitely be a court job.

In reply to Martin not maisie:

In the cold light of day , if Kemics tells police/ insurers that the door was "only open 30 centimeters" they might be wondering how he managed to hit it.

In reply to Kemics:

The passenger won't have any liability insurance, but the driver will. The driver was responsible for the position of the car and for depositing an obviously inebriated passenger into a cycle lane. As she was in the driving seat, she owed you a duty of care both to be aware of you and to ensure that you weren't put at risk of injury. She failed on both counts.

That sounds spot on.

In reply to Kemics:

Highway Code, Rule 239:

"you MUST ensure you do not hit anyone when you open your door. Check for cyclists or other traffic
it is safer for your passengers (especially children) to get out of the vehicle on the side next to the kerb"

In reply to Tom Valentine:

Considering how wide cycle lanes are (at least round here) opening 30cm could block a significant part of the lane.

In reply to Tom Valentine:
Agree, I don't see how 30cms works since right hand elbow will be scrapping side of car before front wheel hits door and in any case the bike would have to be right over in the right hand side of the cycle lane. The car would have to be part in the cycle lane.

Edit - minimum width of cycle lane spec by Dept of Transport is 1.5m

In reply to Kemics:

Kemics, was this Bristol, and if so whereabouts? For a city that loves cycling we do have some, ahem, optimistic cycle facilities.

In reply to Kemics:

Just sue everyone. The driver, of course. And the passenger. The maker of the car also. Perhaps even sue the council. You might even have a claim against the people who made your bike. Did they not warn you that this might happen when you bought the bike? If not, sue the f*ck out of them.

In reply to Kemics:


Don't ride in the 'door zone'?

In reply to m0unt41n:


It would be interesting to run a tape measure on the ones that are painted on the road in Lancashire. Most are barely one metre wide - and often have cars parked one them anyway!

In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

Yeah outside the flyer, by the zebra crossing on Gloucester Road. There's definitely some bike lanes significantly less than 1.5 meters across!

In reply to m0unt41n:



Around here most cycle lanes aren't 1.5feet wide

In reply to snoop6060:

I originally thought about using some much ruder language but Ill just imagine you as a ukip voting daily mail reader

I'm not sueing anyone, as long as the guy pays for damage to my bike. It's my main form of transport as its how I get to work. I've woken up with an arm I can't lift up, a buckled front wheel and a bent (to 90degrees) handle bar. And you're suggesting it's my fault? Good lord. I'm not looking for a free hand out, I'll deal with the pain I just don't want to be out of pocket fixing my own bike because a pissed person opened a car door into me.

My 30 cm estimate may be a bit out. I neglected to use a ruler as it flew past to land in the road. As they often say "it all happened so fast"

In reply to Orgsm:


How is it an offence?

In reply to Kemics:

Kemics they should be paying for any physio treatment to get you back to full health. Contact police and insurers as previously posted.

In reply to Roadrunner5:


http://www.cyclistsdefencefund.org.uk/the-law-for-cyclists-hit-by-vehicle-d...

In reply to Orgsm:

If you are within 30cm of a car then that's a risk.. I can't see there being a chance of a prosecution.

As a driver you pass cars a cars door width away because car doors open. 30 Cm is very close.. in a car you'd never (should never) pass a bike that close because wind gusts can easily shift them over, so that works both ways.

In reply to Roadrunner5:
He wasn't passing a parked car though. He was cycling down a cycle lane when a passenger jumped out of a car in a live lane. If he'd given it a wider berth he would have to ride on the pavement

As a driver do you give cars in the fast lane a wide berth in case a nutter want's to jump out into the middle lane?

Regardless of this, it is the driver of the car's responsibility to ensure passengers embark and disembark safely

In reply to Orgsm:

Interestingly a quick google shows quite a few websites (including that one, and reputable well known sources like the telegraph) that say:
section 42 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 makes it an offence to open “any door of a vehicle on a road so as to injure or endanger any person”

Whilst section 42 of the Road traffic Act 1988 actually says:
A person who—
(a)contravenes or fails to comply with any construction or use requirement other than one within section 41A(a) or 41B(1)(a) [F2or 41D] of this Act, or
(b)uses on a road a motor vehicle or trailer which does not comply with such a requirement, or causes or permits a motor vehicle or trailer to be so used,
is guilty of an offence

Which makes me despair about journalists and their ability to check basic facts before repeating them.

PS: The relevant regulation is The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, regulation 105.

In reply to balmybaldwin:

Yeah, you keep a good meter from cars on a freeway.

I do agree its the drivers responsibility. I just don't think going to the police is the way here.

If the driver overtook the bike, then pulled in to drop off someone then the claim may be more clear against the driver but still 30cm is very close to be cycling..

In reply to Roadrunner5:

I don't understand why people are saying the police should not involved. In fact you are legally obliged to report an incident within 24hrs if a vehicle causes you injury.

I was knocked over by a car in a hospital car park where I work. I wasn't really hurt so I didn't think to report it. When my manager heard of it, I was told to raise an incident report at work. From this I was told I must inform the police. When I contacted them, they told me that I should have reported it straight away, and that in fact 'I' could be cautioned for not reporting it to them within 24hrs. As it happened they didn't take it any further with me and they visited the driver to give them a ticking off.

In reply to Roadrunner5:



any insurance company won't touch this if it's not been reported to the Police. Even now they'll question why it took a full day to report etc.

In reply to Nicola:

If you just get a bang? Id be in the police station once a week in that case...

In fact this week is the first time in a long time I've not been hit by a car coming through a stop sign when I've been out running..

But if you are passing cars that close I can't see the insurance paying out.. 30 cm is very close. Kids get out of cars, everyone should look but the reality is different.

In reply to Kemics: So that I can pass full judgement, can I get one thing clear in my mind?

You were tootling along, minding your own business and a car door was opened in your face, ok? Just one final detail, did the car drive alongside you, stop and then the car door was opened? Or did it stop and you slid down its inside and then the door was opened? Because if it's the latter then that's a bit of poor judgement on your part; but if it's the former then that sounds a little homicidal to me.

In reply to Mike Highbury:

yeah that's important, trying to get up the inside of a car that was stationary is very different from them overtaking then pulling in, which they do all the time.. really pisses me off when they speed to overtake then make a turn across you..

In reply to Kemics:
My sympathies - it's hard to be calm and collected when you're necking painkillers and looking at a totalled bike. Healing vibes. Were you using the lane inside stationary traffic? Was there a double yellow or even zig-zags prohibiting the car from stopping and setting down passengers at that point? Looking at streetview, I can't see many places where a car could legally do that.

But, to reiterate, police first - they have committed an offence, even if a prosecution doesn't happen (it's unlikely, frankly), you need that crime number. Do it today. Did you get any insurance details/address/registration? If driver failed to provide the first two, that's potentially another offence.

There are normally ads for cycling-specialist solicitors in the back of Cycling Weekly. Some of them will do a free chat to examine the best way to proceed.

Also, pop into A&E and get it x-rayed if you think there is any chance of it being broken. Take some pics of your spectacular bruising.

In reply to MHutch70:

I thought you could drop off in double yellows?

Happy to be corrected but always thought you could, just not wait.

In reply to Roadrunner5:

Yeah, you're right on doubles, looking it up. Not zig-zags or bus-stops.

In reply to Kemics:

I would have thought that potentially an offence was committed because someone was injured.

Is it not a requirement to inform the police if you injure someone by whatever means on a public highway?

My only concern about the 30cm was that it didn't make sense and you do not want to get a strong case like this confused by something like that.

In reply to Kemics:


Yep. Widths of Bristol roads, minus two bike lanes, minus parking, divided by two way traffic doesn't add up. Take em to the cleaners - it's not like you can't be expecting cyclists on Gloucester Road.

In reply to Kemics:

Yeah outside the flyer, by the zebra crossing on Gloucester Road

If you look northwards of the Flyer, you'll see a car parked illegally on Double Yellows and it's also straddling the Cycle Lane.
Have a guess what type of car it is...

In reply to m0unt41n:


It depends if they knew, obviously they knew there was a collision, but if you say you OK, then no.. I know when I'm hi I've almost always said I'm OK.. only later have the bruises developed.

In reply to FactorXXX:

Octavia

In reply to Roadrunner5:


Are you 'hi' now?

In reply to Kemics:

Not sure that I would pass up the inside of a stationary car by the side of the road at any speed.. but on the other hand I would always park the car hard against the pavement if dropping off a passenger (assuming broken markings on the cycle lane) and always check mirrors!

1st step is to contact the passenger and ask about payment; that is always the easiest way, and in my experience, people are usually reasonable about making good their mistakes.

2nd option (assuming you don't have insurance) would probably be small claims court, but will require you to pay a small amount in advance (can be added to the claim). From the way you describe it, it was mainly the other parties fault, but it is likely that there might be grounds for contributory negligence on your part also, so route 1 if you can.

In any case, spending a little time researching the small-claims procedure can make you seem a lot more credible if you have to bring a little pressure to bear on the other party. Invariably it will be in both your interests to sort it out between yourselves (amicably or otherwise).

In reply to Roadrunner5:



How about, if the cyclist is on the inside of the car, in the cycle lane, and while happily cycling along, the drunken passenger opens the door into said cyclist, with the end of the door catching the cyclist on the shoulder, due to the door only being open by 30 cm?

That's my interpretation of the OP's post.

In a busy road it's sometimes difficult 'not' to be circa 30cm away from the side of a car.

In reply to Timmd:



No, but it would be safer to move out of the cycle lane and pass on the drivers side of the car (waiting if necessary). These kind of on-road cycle lanes should really be seen as a restricted lane rather than a segregated facility, and with the usual lane rules applying. Overtaking on the inside isn't strictly prohibited, but it is against the highway code, and that can count against you in a civil claim.

In reply to Kemics:

Obviously the correct course of action is to take the advice of everyone on here, including me, rather than anyone who might deal with this sort of thing for a living.

I had a spectacular accident a few years ago which involved a car doing a U turn in front of me and me T-boning it hard enough to write the car off. The police said that as I was injured (nothing broken, just bruised and battered which in legalese counts as injured) the driver of the car had a duty to report the accident within 24 hours, whether I wanted to or not. So without going into the details of your accident, as only you know them, I'd advise contacting the cops. The driver has the same duty as above.

I'd also advise keeping an eye on your shoulder and getting it checked out thoroughly. I 'hurt' my shoulder in a mtb crash and thought it was just a bit of post-impact stiffness. It developed slowly into a frozen shoulder which was, literally, a massive pain, and took over a year out of my active life. Don't sit on your hands over the accident or the shoulder. Best of luck.

In reply to Kemics:
Claim against the driver's insurance as you would if they or their passenger had opened the door into your lane as you drove past.

Report it to the police.

I spoke to the police and they said I can report it as a 'failure to stop' (driver was taking no responsibility at time) but they can only record it if a crime has been committed. As they guy has said he'll pay they've advised me to just follow it up as a civil matter. So hopefully he plays ball.

To clarify the situation -

There's a zebra crossing. I'm in a cycle lane. There's a queue of cars waiting for people to leave the crossing. I'm cycling down the inside of the stationary cars to pull up to the zebra crossing myself. A drunk passenger is going to the pub opposite decides to use the cars being stationary as a time to get out and go to the pub. Opens door into me. Just catches my right hand shoulder and brake lever. In his own words "i'm sorry, i didnt even look". I dont know if the gap was 30cm but it was enough so I hit the end of the door rather than into the inside of it. So a less than half open door. Hope that makes sense.

In reply to MarkJH:


'Filtering' isn't against the highway code.

In reply to Kemics:

.


Did you mention that you have bike insurance?

If so I'd claim off that and let them do the work. It's what insurance is for.

In reply to Kemics:




Makes perfect sense. You did nothing wrong. If the guy pays for the bike to be repaired, and you're happy with that, then go for it. The police thing is just a back-up in case you're dealing with arseholes.

Hope the shoulder is feeling a bit better this morning.

As an aside, you need to make sure it's just the front wheel you need to replace - might be worth popping into a bike shop for a close look at the frame, forks etc to make sure everything else is still straight.

In reply to Timmd:


No, but it should be done under very specific circumstances (i.e. in slow moving queues of traffic). In all other circumstances you should overtake on the outside. In any case, whilst filtering isn't illegal, it moves at least some of the burden of responsibility onto the filterer to avoid collisions.

Really it's always worth calling for ambulance and police. Even if it looks like a bruise it may be a serious injury. Having police on the site makes chances of getting the bike repaired much higher.

Even if you got their names and details they can have car repaired next day and say that they never hit you with a door. No chances you will be able to proof anything then.

In reply to Kemics:

Is this really worth the hassle vs buying a new wheel and handlebar and being glad nobody was badly hurt? People make mistakes, accidents happen. To my mind I'd rather spend the money on new bike bits than the time filing reports for lawyers and police.

Anyway, you've got the chaps number, you never know he might be good to his word and fix your bike, get a quick quote and give him a call, he probably feels terrible about knocking you off and will do the right thing (wouldn't you?).

jk

In reply to Kemics:


As mentioned above, the Police don't necessarily know the law, and acording to the link in the post linked below an offence has been committed:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=613044#x8022081



Looking on Google Streetview, that is not a cycle lane on the opposite side of the road to the Flyer pub. I can't see any cycle symbols painted on the road, the beginning of the box has square ends and there are posts on the pavement with the times parking is restricted.

In reply to Kemics:

Hmm. I had someone reverse out of their drive into me. I'd stopped by this stage, well in advance, but they just kept on coming and bent my front wheel. It sprang back, but when you spun it you could hear the sound of tinkling carbon composite inside.

They admitted liability and gave me their insurance details and it was all straightforward, which is just as well, because my household insurance legal people were less than inspiring and British Cycling legal ditto - they're more interested in liability for problems that you have caused it seems; they suggest claiming against the other party's insurance, much as if you would if you had been a pedestrian (noting, of course, that as a cyclist you are a lower order of being than a pedestrian)

In reply to MarkJH:


Cycle lanes are there to encourage cycling, and one of their benefits is that they allow you to make progress while traffic is stationary/moving slowly.

If we follow your logic, we have 2 options.

1. Sit in the cycle lane at the same speed as the traffic, so you're never filtering up the inside of a slower/stopped vehicle. In which case, you might as well be in your car.

2. Put the cycle lanes up the middle of the road, to the right of the traffic, so you can overtake it on the correct side when the traffic's not moving. And get knocked off by everyone turning right.

In reply to Chris Harris:




I don't think that you can make hard and fast rules. I tend to use cycle lanes in free flowing traffic and move to more conventional filtering in slow moving traffic. i.e. between lanes, or on the outside of traffic. I wouldn't rule out filtering between the kerb and another lane of traffic, but I would be moving VERY slowly. Just the same as I would in a car moving up the inside of a stationary lane of traffic.