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I'm trying to locate an address and telephone number for Karrimor. Thought they were still in Blackburn area. Anyone enlighten?
Cheers
Cheers
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In reply to shibboleth:
It's Sports Direct who bought the brand name. Sadly the days of being able to drop in to the factory in Accrington and get your sack refurbished on the spot are long gone.
It's Sports Direct who bought the brand name. Sadly the days of being able to drop in to the factory in Accrington and get your sack refurbished on the spot are long gone.
In reply to shibboleth:
Used to be based in Accrington owned by the Parson’s family. The business went through a number of reformations and acquisitions from 1993 and sold its soul to becoming more of a fashion brand rather than maintaining sticking to its core business and was ultimately acquired by Sports Direct in 2004
Mike and Jen Parsons left the business from around 1996 and went on to form OMM (Original Mountain Marathon) to return back to making more technical lightweight clothing and equipment.
Used to be based in Accrington owned by the Parson’s family. The business went through a number of reformations and acquisitions from 1993 and sold its soul to becoming more of a fashion brand rather than maintaining sticking to its core business and was ultimately acquired by Sports Direct in 2004
Mike and Jen Parsons left the business from around 1996 and went on to form OMM (Original Mountain Marathon) to return back to making more technical lightweight clothing and equipment.
In reply to shibboleth:
The question of why Karrimor failed as a brand is often raised in our household. My belief is that in an increasingly competitive market the designers failed to realise that there's fashion in outdoor clothing, which has to look right as well as perform.
The question of why Karrimor failed as a brand is often raised in our household. My belief is that in an increasingly competitive market the designers failed to realise that there's fashion in outdoor clothing, which has to look right as well as perform.
Post edited at 12:00
In reply to Rigid Raider:
I agree about there being fashion, it's kind of weird when one thinks what it's used for, I sometimes think.
Johnny Dawes mentioned the Peak has become like London with lots of brands and labels.
I agree about there being fashion, it's kind of weird when one thinks what it's used for, I sometimes think.
Johnny Dawes mentioned the Peak has become like London with lots of brands and labels.
Post edited at 12:07
In reply to Rigid Raider:
The gear was too long lived as well. Rucksacks were amazingly durable for example. The fashion for 'fast and light' in alpinism didn't sit well with a durable/ heavyweight brand.
I real shame, they made some amazing stuff.
I wish someone still made KSBs for example.
> The question of why Karrimor failed as a brand is often raised in our household. My belief is that in an increasingly competitive market the designers failed to realise that there's fashion in outdoor clothing, which has to look right as well as perform.
The gear was too long lived as well. Rucksacks were amazingly durable for example. The fashion for 'fast and light' in alpinism didn't sit well with a durable/ heavyweight brand.
I real shame, they made some amazing stuff.
I wish someone still made KSBs for example.
Post edited at 12:08
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In reply to blurty:
Too true! I have had decades of use out of my Karrimor rucsac and it's still going strong despite being filthy and having a broken top zip.
Too true! I have had decades of use out of my Karrimor rucsac and it's still going strong despite being filthy and having a broken top zip.
In reply to blurty:
If a piece of kit lasts for 5 years you think it's done well and may well buy another of the same brand.
If a piece of kit lasts forever you don't need to buy another.
> The gear was too long lived as well. Rucksacks were amazingly durable for example.
If a piece of kit lasts for 5 years you think it's done well and may well buy another of the same brand.
If a piece of kit lasts forever you don't need to buy another.
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In reply to Rigid Raider:
Has it ? I see Karimor running kit everywhere I look these days.
> The question of why Karrimor failed as a brand ...
Has it ? I see Karimor running kit everywhere I look these days.
In reply to Rigid Raider:
Oh...fashion versus functionality debate!! That’s a good one!! Don’t get me started!! I used to work for a well known technical brand in the early 1990’s and have quite a long history of working in the industry before being seduced away by a better offer!
The problem when brands start to be lured by the volumes that a more fashion orientated approach always is that a lot of the functionality is lost and the product becomes very homogenised.
Compare any clothing product produced by the likes of TNF, Berghaus, Mountain Equipment, Rab etc to that produced 20 years ago and you can see that fashion dictates over functionality. For sure, garment technology has advanced a great deal, and we have better materials, but the overall design is driven by fashion.
There’s more TNF duvets on Ken High Street than you’ll ever see on a Mountain and every outside broadcaster always seem to sporting the latest from a big outdoor brand.
However, all is not lost. There are companies out there that still design the product from an outdoor performance perspective...eg., Montane, ....dare I even mention Buffalo!!
Oh...fashion versus functionality debate!! That’s a good one!! Don’t get me started!! I used to work for a well known technical brand in the early 1990’s and have quite a long history of working in the industry before being seduced away by a better offer!
The problem when brands start to be lured by the volumes that a more fashion orientated approach always is that a lot of the functionality is lost and the product becomes very homogenised.
Compare any clothing product produced by the likes of TNF, Berghaus, Mountain Equipment, Rab etc to that produced 20 years ago and you can see that fashion dictates over functionality. For sure, garment technology has advanced a great deal, and we have better materials, but the overall design is driven by fashion.
There’s more TNF duvets on Ken High Street than you’ll ever see on a Mountain and every outside broadcaster always seem to sporting the latest from a big outdoor brand.
However, all is not lost. There are companies out there that still design the product from an outdoor performance perspective...eg., Montane, ....dare I even mention Buffalo!!
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In reply to exiled_northerner:
I've just had a gliff at the OMM website and I see functional gear that doesn't look particularly fashionable to me. I assume they call it "Original Mountain Marathon" because the first marathon was run by Karrimor?
I used to do Polaris mountain marathons and am tempted by the OMM version.
I've just had a gliff at the OMM website and I see functional gear that doesn't look particularly fashionable to me. I assume they call it "Original Mountain Marathon" because the first marathon was run by Karrimor?
I used to do Polaris mountain marathons and am tempted by the OMM version.
In reply to Rigid Raider:
Yep...OMM comes from the KIMM being the very first MM
The OMM version of the Polaris doesn't have the original format of having to camp out on the course but is still great fun!
The fashion v function debate could go on and on!! I don't think that kit designed for mountain marathons needs to be fashionable!
Yep...OMM comes from the KIMM being the very first MM
The OMM version of the Polaris doesn't have the original format of having to camp out on the course but is still great fun!
The fashion v function debate could go on and on!! I don't think that kit designed for mountain marathons needs to be fashionable!
In reply to MG:
The majority of the stuff they produce is not up to much, but the “elite” range does not look too bad. They have an event shell that looked alright and I bought a 750 fill (90/10) goose down body warmer from them for £30. The original price was £160, which as with anything from sports direct you need to take with a pinch of salt, but it keeps it down well, is warm and a bargain at that price.
> They don't really exist anymore - only a name as part of a bigger company
The majority of the stuff they produce is not up to much, but the “elite” range does not look too bad. They have an event shell that looked alright and I bought a 750 fill (90/10) goose down body warmer from them for £30. The original price was £160, which as with anything from sports direct you need to take with a pinch of salt, but it keeps it down well, is warm and a bargain at that price.
In reply to Rigid Raider:
Interesting to see Mountain Equipment and OMM mentioned.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karrimor
Interesting to see Mountain Equipment and OMM mentioned.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karrimor
In reply to galpinos:
Exiled_Northerner mentioned them.
> Where is Mountain Equipment mentioned, apart from reference 18?
Exiled_Northerner mentioned them.
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In reply to galpinos:
Beware good old Wikipedia ... don’t take it as gospel!! The link on reference 18 goes through the US Mountain Equipment Cooperative!
The early/mid 90’s was indeed a time of change in British based outdoor manufacturing. It was around 1992 that a group of whiz-kid investors (The Peaco Group) swallowed up Mountain Equipment, Troll and Ron Hill because they had “synergy”. They didn’t understand the business, took all the UK based manufacturing off-shore and devalued the ME brand which now scraps it out with bland mass market product rather than the specialist kit Pete Hutchinson founded the business on and which is now produced by PHD.
The Ron Hill brand seems to have survived relatively intact, but whatever happened to Troll?
Beware good old Wikipedia ... don’t take it as gospel!! The link on reference 18 goes through the US Mountain Equipment Cooperative!
The early/mid 90’s was indeed a time of change in British based outdoor manufacturing. It was around 1992 that a group of whiz-kid investors (The Peaco Group) swallowed up Mountain Equipment, Troll and Ron Hill because they had “synergy”. They didn’t understand the business, took all the UK based manufacturing off-shore and devalued the ME brand which now scraps it out with bland mass market product rather than the specialist kit Pete Hutchinson founded the business on and which is now produced by PHD.
The Ron Hill brand seems to have survived relatively intact, but whatever happened to Troll?
In reply to exiled_northerner:
I'm very pleased with my Mountain Equipment XCR mountain jacket, but PHD's down gear is definitely very good.
I'm very pleased with my Mountain Equipment XCR mountain jacket, but PHD's down gear is definitely very good.
In reply to exiled_northerner:
I have various bits of PHD and ME kit and I get a lot more use out of the ME kit.
I have various bits of PHD and ME kit and I get a lot more use out of the ME kit.
In reply to galpinos:
LOL... there's never going to be a consensus about kit. Don't get some wrong, the big brands do make some half decent gear, but they've lost their grass root connection and have generally put fashion and lifestyle product ahead of developing true functionality
LOL... there's never going to be a consensus about kit. Don't get some wrong, the big brands do make some half decent gear, but they've lost their grass root connection and have generally put fashion and lifestyle product ahead of developing true functionality
In reply to Rigid Raider:
I have bought a few bits of Karrimor stuff recently, it does seem to be on the up again. More towards the fell running side of things rather than full on mountaineering, but a friend bought a pair of their softshell trousers recently that seem really good too. Don't write them off fully, they have just slightly shifted focus!
> The question of why Karrimor failed as a brand is often raised in our household.
I have bought a few bits of Karrimor stuff recently, it does seem to be on the up again. More towards the fell running side of things rather than full on mountaineering, but a friend bought a pair of their softshell trousers recently that seem really good too. Don't write them off fully, they have just slightly shifted focus!
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In reply to exiled_northerner:
Troll are still in business with a small manufacturing site in Skipton.
Troll are still in business with a small manufacturing site in Skipton.
In reply to exiled_northerner:
I think it might be more fair to say that they have diversified their vertical market strategy...
Yes, some may be mass market appeal stuff, but ME certainly have gone for a more functional approach in their recent products. You might argue that that's just a different 'fashion paradigm'. I'm not sure the likes of the Eclipse hoody will ever be street fashion, except amongst some hipster crowd trying desperately to wear something 'different'.
> Compare any clothing product produced by the likes of TNF, Berghaus, Mountain Equipment, Rab etc to that produced 20 years ago and you can see that fashion dictates over functionality.
I think it might be more fair to say that they have diversified their vertical market strategy...
Yes, some may be mass market appeal stuff, but ME certainly have gone for a more functional approach in their recent products. You might argue that that's just a different 'fashion paradigm'. I'm not sure the likes of the Eclipse hoody will ever be street fashion, except amongst some hipster crowd trying desperately to wear something 'different'.
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In reply to exiled_northerner:
<cough>Canadian</cough> Mountain Equipment Cooperative, eh.
> the US Mountain Equipment Cooperative
<cough>Canadian</cough> Mountain Equipment Cooperative, eh.
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In reply to exiled_northerner:
What would you say is an example of that then? I was interviewing the head of marketing at Rab last autumn and he said that while they are really happy to see people buy their jackets for walking the dog, they still design everything with some sort of mountain/outdoor sports person in mind. Would you say that's disingenuous? Beyond brands having the odd t-shirt or cotton hoody with their name on it (and not even sure if Rab does that), I don't really see much evidence for your claim.
> Don't get some wrong, the big brands do make some half decent gear, but they've lost their grass root connection and have generally put fashion and lifestyle product ahead of developing true functionality
What would you say is an example of that then? I was interviewing the head of marketing at Rab last autumn and he said that while they are really happy to see people buy their jackets for walking the dog, they still design everything with some sort of mountain/outdoor sports person in mind. Would you say that's disingenuous? Beyond brands having the odd t-shirt or cotton hoody with their name on it (and not even sure if Rab does that), I don't really see much evidence for your claim.
In reply to shibboleth:
Just a post in praise. I got my first rucksack aged eight in 79. My second (big enough for backpacking) in 83. My third (big enough for anything) in 87. They are all still going strong. Just bloody indestructible with a bit of needlework now and again. In my day etc... But I'm sure they're not fashionable.
Just a post in praise. I got my first rucksack aged eight in 79. My second (big enough for backpacking) in 83. My third (big enough for anything) in 87. They are all still going strong. Just bloody indestructible with a bit of needlework now and again. In my day etc... But I'm sure they're not fashionable.
Post edited at 19:01
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In reply to TobyA:
Easy example to start with ....compare an ME Kongur jacket spec from 1992 to the recent incarnation which although sold as a top end mountain jacket is a despec'd version of the original.
Or take the iconic Karrimor Joe Brown climbing sack and try to find anything comparable in the "brands'" ranges ...only something from Pod comes remotely close to being as a functional climbing sack
Easy example to start with ....compare an ME Kongur jacket spec from 1992 to the recent incarnation which although sold as a top end mountain jacket is a despec'd version of the original.
Or take the iconic Karrimor Joe Brown climbing sack and try to find anything comparable in the "brands'" ranges ...only something from Pod comes remotely close to being as a functional climbing sack
In reply to captain paranoia:
Schoolboy error...... looks embarrassingly at his feet!
> <cough>Canadian</cough> Mountain Equipment Cooperative, eh.
Schoolboy error...... looks embarrassingly at his feet!
In reply to exiled_northerner:
http://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/mrt-jacket
Images of the 1992 model seem a little tricky to find. Assuming today's model actually has been developed in partnership with mountain rescue teams, what feature or material might the rescue teams be missing picking up on as a good thing to have, if today's model isn't as good?
> Easy example to start with ....compare an ME Kongur jacket spec from 1992 to the recent incarnation which although sold as a top end mountain jacket is a despec'd version of the original.
http://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/mrt-jacket
Images of the 1992 model seem a little tricky to find. Assuming today's model actually has been developed in partnership with mountain rescue teams, what feature or material might the rescue teams be missing picking up on as a good thing to have, if today's model isn't as good?
Post edited at 21:27
In reply to exiled_northerner:
http://www.berghaus.com/trail-speed-30-rucksack/421577.html?dwvar_421577_co...
This looks pretty functional to me...?
> Or take the iconic Karrimor Joe Brown climbing sack and try to find anything comparable in the "brands'" ranges ...only something from Pod comes remotely close to being as a functional climbing sack
http://www.berghaus.com/trail-speed-30-rucksack/421577.html?dwvar_421577_co...
This looks pretty functional to me...?
Post edited at 21:36
In reply to exiled_northerner:
My mate still uses his early 80s Karrimor pack regularly, so I agree their early ones were very good quality, but I think its totally wrong to say there aren't many perfectly good "functional climbing sacks" available now.
I bet the Kongur of 92 was twice the weight of the current one, less breathable and no more protective. Thinking back to early 90s goretex you generally needed double storm flaps to keep the zip dry and they often had numerous pockets meaning over the chest etc you would have two or even three layers of goretex, which wasn't as breathable as newer versions anyway. Clothes tend to be cut much better now so not flappy and droppy like my 91 Pheonix Topaz goretex was. Don't get me wrong, I loved that jacket at the time (and took an age to save up for it!) and had some good adventures in it, but once regularly winter climbing gave up on it in favour of Buffalo because you got too sweaty in it. Modern waterproof/breathables just work so much better.
My mate still uses his early 80s Karrimor pack regularly, so I agree their early ones were very good quality, but I think its totally wrong to say there aren't many perfectly good "functional climbing sacks" available now.
I bet the Kongur of 92 was twice the weight of the current one, less breathable and no more protective. Thinking back to early 90s goretex you generally needed double storm flaps to keep the zip dry and they often had numerous pockets meaning over the chest etc you would have two or even three layers of goretex, which wasn't as breathable as newer versions anyway. Clothes tend to be cut much better now so not flappy and droppy like my 91 Pheonix Topaz goretex was. Don't get me wrong, I loved that jacket at the time (and took an age to save up for it!) and had some good adventures in it, but once regularly winter climbing gave up on it in favour of Buffalo because you got too sweaty in it. Modern waterproof/breathables just work so much better.
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In reply to Timmd:
I might have to have a rummage in the catalogue archive...
But I'm guessing the 1992 Kongur weighed about 1.5kg, and was constructed from Gore-tex 'Krupps' fabric, woven from recycled WW2 battleships, with shoulders reinforced with steel plate. It probably had 20 pockets, each with a protective flap, and double storm flaps on a YKK Vislon 8 zip. And the hood would have been a shapeless bag with a steel I-beam to stiffen the peak. And half-metre long adjuster cords fitted with a mace-like toggle to take your eyes out. Oh, and probably sack like in fit.
As I said, I'm guessing...
> Images of the 1992 model seem a little tricky to find.
I might have to have a rummage in the catalogue archive...
But I'm guessing the 1992 Kongur weighed about 1.5kg, and was constructed from Gore-tex 'Krupps' fabric, woven from recycled WW2 battleships, with shoulders reinforced with steel plate. It probably had 20 pockets, each with a protective flap, and double storm flaps on a YKK Vislon 8 zip. And the hood would have been a shapeless bag with a steel I-beam to stiffen the peak. And half-metre long adjuster cords fitted with a mace-like toggle to take your eyes out. Oh, and probably sack like in fit.
As I said, I'm guessing...
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