UKC

I've got an old NF Blue Kazoo, which I use in spring/autumn and for me is ok down to about 0C in thermals, and -5C with my downy over the top and a hot water bottle to warm it up. It's great for what it is, but not so good in cold weather for me.

I've also got a Mountain Equipment 1250 Glacier bag which I bought for an expedition last year but it didn't happen unfortunately. The bag has a comfort zone of -12 to -20 with a 'good nights sleep' temperature of -25C according to ME (whatever that means). I've used it at -10 or so a couple of times and it's very warm. Haven't bothered using it much more than that as there's no need, it's too warm.

I think I've come to the conclusion that I need to sell the ME bag (offers around £350*) and get a bag that does the -5 to -15 range (chilly winter/spring alpine bivvies, and comfortable Scottish winter camping). I want down, I want it to last, I want it to pack down small and weigh little, I have no idea what current fabrics are good/bad, and have even less idea about if waterproof down is worth having or not. What's around at the moment that's good? Anyone selling something second hand that would do what I need? I'm only 5'7" so want a short bag to save weight/space. Preferably a zip on the left as you lie in it. And recommendations welcome!


*Regular size, green, left hand zip, used for 5 nights in the alps (always with a liner). I can't find the RRP, but Cotswold have it for £540. Cheapest I can see new is £405 + p&p from abroad. Email me if interested. I'll put an ad up at the weekend. More info here. http://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/glacier-1250

In reply to NottsRich:

This your way of getting round a premier post?

In reply to MtnGeekUK:

Haha, thanks for the bump!

No actually, I hadn't thought of that! But like I said, I'll put one up at the weekend once I've taken a few photos.

In reply to NottsRich:
ME Lightline?

In reply to NottsRich:


The EN rating doesn't work very well for bags designed for around -20 or colder, so ME give their guarantee to what they design it for. I found they were conservative and the bag I tested was even warmer than they thought! http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=5328

Have you ever camped in -15 in the UK? Or is for elsewhere? Just wondering as since moving back here from the far North, I was sort of hoping my down to -12 bag would be as much as would ever need in the UK, short of 2 or 3 nights a year in Cairngorm glens when it get colder and I'm not likely to be there! This i've used to -9 or -10 a number of times http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=3605 but its still amazingly light and packable, lighter than quite a few summer bags! The Marmot ones are pricey though, but it's top kit if you're lazy and don't like carrying too much!

In reply to TobyA:

The Plasma looks pretty good, Toby. I've been in the market for something in the -8 to -15C range for a while. I have at least five sleeping bags, but three of them are -20 to -40C bags which are too warm and too bulky to use for Himalayan stuff, at least for the actual climbing.

I've found it hard to get a reasonably priced, Long-size, reasonably water-resistant, quality down bag around the -12C range. I probably overlooked the Plasma because I wasn't confident it was warm enough for the price. Some bags look great on specs but reviews mention down leakage, poor zips etc. Feathered Friends in the US seem to have a couple of good bags in that range so I was going to wait a bit and get one of those.

And yes, I know PHD can make me anything. I just can't afford 'anything' :-/

In reply to Damo:


The price bit is definitely a problem!

The Plasma bag is impressive though, I was looking for some super light and compact bag for summer bikepacking in particular, and realised I would need to get something really special (a top bag or a mountain marathon type bag) to be significantly lighter than the Plasma that goes 10 or 15 degrees colder than these specialist bags.

In reply to TobyA:

Thanks Toby. The plasm Plasma in your review sound great, although being -12 rather than -9 would be great for me, just for a bit more comfort... Looks great though. Looking around for prices I found it on the REI site, and they had this to say about it: "With a European Norm (EN) lower-limit rating of 18°F, the Plasma 15 sleeping bag is suitable for 3-season use and occasional winter outings." That is off putting, unless three season use over there is significantly different to what I imagine. Any idea? I've not spent enough time over there to judge.

The ME Snowline looks really good too, but a bit too warm/heavy for what I'm looking for. Something inbetween would be great! The Lightline fits the temperature bill, but weighs loads more than the Plasma and only 100g less than the Snowline.

Toby, the coldest I've camped in Scotland was -8C at 11pm near Loch Morlich. By morning it was a lovely -1C with six inches of fresh snow. The was in the Blue Kazoo with downy over the top. Colder than that was in the Alps.

Thanks for the 'good nights sleep' explanation - makes sense now!

Keep the ideas coming, this is going to be a tough decision for me!

In reply to NottsRich:

Have a look at the Cumulus Panyam 600 or Teneqa 700.
They can make you a shorter bag on request, Pertex Endurance outers and hydrophobic down are also options if you send them an email.

Mountain Equipment Glacier bags do also come with lower fill weights. This could also be worth considering if you like everything about your current bag, exept for the fill weight.

In reply to NottsRich:

Google tells me 18 Fahrenheit is just shy of -8, so yeah, I guess that could be continental '3 seasons', definitely in Finland you could get autumn or quite late into spring nights when the temperature could get down to that sort of temperature. I guess in the UK it would be fine for most winter's nights too.

Before I started getting some bags to review for UKC, I had been using my Mtn Equipment Lightline from, IIRC, 1999. It still works perfectly well now. I think that was rated down to about -12. In Finnish winter conditions before I got the amazing Snowline to review I used to use the lightline inside a second bag - a roomy synthetic cheap Haglofs and that worked really well but obviously you are doubling the weight if you need to hike any distance.

In reply to TobyA:

In Finnish winter conditions before I got the amazing Snowline to review I used to use the lightline inside a second bag - a roomy synthetic cheap Haglofs and that worked really well but obviously you are doubling the weight if you need to hike any distance.

I have a Rab half bag that was very cheap on Sportspursuit that can beef up with my 3 season bag. Not fully tested the pairing out in anger, but I like having a really light summer bag and the warmer option.

In reply to NottsRich:

I find the Mountain equipment zero 550 to fit your criteria pretty much on the bullseye. Seems much warmer than it's stated figures and still below a kilo in weight.

In reply to NottsRich:

I picked up a new Tundra pure and dry -10 from someone on UKC a couple of years ago. I've been pretty impressed by it so far.

http://www.outdoorgb.com/p/tundra_warmthunlimited_pure_and_dry_sleeping_bag...

they do a non-dry version too which is a little lighter and cheaper

In reply to TobyA:

I camped outside Bridge of Orchy hotel, down by the river in, was it 2009. The car said it was minus 14 and the ground under the tent was just sheet ice. Nice and warm.

I was cold in my expedition bag and a 5 season karrimat until I put my down jacket on as well but I do sleep cold and the temperature at ground level in an inversion is anyone's guess. Moral- don't believe those who say you don't need a warm warm bag for Scottish winter ( or an overbag system).