UKC

Morning all. Can anyone recommend a good crag sack for trad climbing ?

In reply to The Patriot:
The skoda Octavia of crag sacs:

http://www.podsacs.com/i/q/CCPCRSC/pod-crag-sac

Ok, not made by Pete any more but still pretty much his original design I think . My everyday sac is a light weight bd something or other . It would be almost useless as a crag sac, wouldn't last five minutes .

In reply to The Patriot:

Cilogear 30L worksack (guide, if you're inclined) is pretty good.

In reply to The Patriot: just bought a Lowe alpine crag attack 2. Highly recommended.

In reply to The Patriot:

I use this one: http://dmmclimbing.com/products/vector/ and I'm quite happy with it

In reply to The Patriot:

Have you seen http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=3906 ? Some of the models have changed slightly since I wrote it, but it will give you some ideas on what makes a good crag sack for a traddie. I still use the Arcteryx one for all my crag climbing. It's grubby but otherwise remains in excellent condition. The DMM Vector also looks good, although I haven't tried one. But they know what UK climbers want and need from a pack.

Black Diamond also have a couple of cool looking new crag packs- read the bit on them in http://eveningsends.com/climbing/3-latest-gear-trends-climbing/

In reply to The Patriot:

try here:
http://www.aiguillealpine.co.uk/

In reply to The Patriot: As has been suggested previously. Bombproof, does what it says and now unbelievable value at under £50 delivered, you really cant beat a Pod Cragsac.
http://www.podsacs.com/i/q/CCPCRSC/pod-crag-sac

In reply to The Patriot:

As an alternative to the Podsac: http://www.decathlon.co.uk/alpinism-32-climbing-mountaineering-backpack-red...
Far, far cheaper than all of the Black Diamond/Arcteryx guff and still a tenner cheaper than the Podsac, and just as incredibly durable - I've used mine over the course of several years for trad cragging, multipitch, mountain routes, and single pitch ice days (surprisingly good for strapping axes to), and generally knock it about by taking it as hand luggage whenever I fly. Absolutely no signs of wear and tear, aside from the fact that the orange parts are a good deal grubbier than when I bought it.
At the risk of angering the masses, I would argue that it (and Simond gear as a whole) is truly the Skoda Octavia of backpacks.

In reply to L.A.:

That's a great price and I know its called a cragsac but its not what I really think of as a cragsac nowadays.

Lots of people are recommending middle of the road, tough mountaineering sacks. I think many of these are great if you have a limited budget and do lots of different types of climbing/outdoorsy stuff, but they tend to be heavier than they need to be for alpine (or even Scottish winter) climbing. They can be crappy to climb with on multipitch routes and winter routes. They are not particularly convenient when spending an evening cragging on single pitch routes (I invariably end up taking an ikea bag with me to put things in as I take them out of a top-loading rucksack!) and aren't necessarily super comfy to use as a backpacking pack for short trips.

Like I say, if you are short on cash and do lots of different stuff, they are almost certainly the optimum solution. I had a Lowe Alpine Snowpeak 50 like that, it got used for just about everything for well over a decade. Lowe must have been making them out diamonds or something because not even airport baggage handlers could pop a stitch or scratch it. But it also had all those weaknesses listed above. The OP says he/she wants "a cragsac for trad climbing", so I'd really consider a zip open pack of some sort designed just for that. They are really great if that's just what you want it for!

In reply to DBoothroyd:

Or this one! http://www.decathlon.co.uk/rock-bag-30-l-id_8270205.html Keeping with my cragsac vibe.

In reply to TobyA:
A zip opening, clam-shell type pack has been my holy grail of crag sack for years, but noone really makes one anymore. POD used to do one I seem to remember, and I'm using the Boreal Rambla which is ok (though the zips are not great). The sport-orientated ones, like the DMM Flight, never have a substantial enough back system or are big enough to carry trad kit, imo.
Any suggestions?

In reply to Jon Read:
I have one of these:

http://www.joe-brown.com/10032/products/climbing-technology-falesia-climbin...

I probably wouldn't want to do a full day's hiking with it, but it's comfortable and secure enough for walk-ins and scramble-ins, takes a full trad rack plus helmet, rope etc.

It's covered in the UKC rope bag reviews here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=3625

In reply to BarrySW19:

Thanks Barry, shame it looks a bit on the 'unpadded' side for what I'd want, particularly the waist belt.

In reply to BarrySW19:

Yes. If you want a heavy duty bag for short 10-20 minute walk-ins the Falesia is the daddy. I have one too.

However, for multipitch with a long mountain walk-in I've found this to be the mutt's nuts:

http://lowealpine.com/eclipse-25

Incredibly light AND comfortable. Great for multipitch because of small 25L volume, yet extra straps and stretch pockets increase load capacity to 35-40L. You really can get everything for a big mountain day into this baby, boots, rope, full rack, water, spare clothes, trekking poles, the lot. An absolutely brilliant bit of kit. Doubtless less durable but that isn't the point.

In reply to Jon Read:

If you can face the cost, how about the new version of the Arcteryx one I reviewed? http://arcteryx.com/product.aspx?language=EN&category=Packs&model=M... Or, indeed, the Mammut one? http://www.mammut.ch/en/productDetail/251001940_v_0040_45/Neon-Gear.html

In reply to TobyA:


I've had the Arcteryx Muira 45 for the past two years, and would recommend it to anyone. Doesn't look like it'll ever wear out. You can source one in the sales for about 85 quid, but even at full price its a good buy.

In reply to TobyA:

Damn, these rucksacks look all sexy, but bloody expensive!

I've got Lowe Alpine Mountain Attack 45:55 which is okay to use for cragging. I would like a wider opening to sort out the gear, but currently I just put all climbing stuff in a dry bag or cotton bag so it is easy to take it out of the bag.

Also, some of the cragging rucksacks have really poor back design which would make carrying rack further very painful!

In reply to PPP:


My first pure crag sack I wrote as one of my very first reviews for UKC, http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=865 (I had actually bought it myself, not received it for reviewing). I still regularly use the bag, so it's working fine 8 years later. It seems Snap is still basically doing the same bag http://snapclimbing.com/climbing-bags/38-climbing-bags-snapack-snap.html and still for €50 which seems very reasonable. Just a shame they don't seem to have a UK distributor anymore, but maybe something to look out for on summer hols down that way!

In reply to TobyA:

BananaFingers are still selling them: http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/snap-snapack-p-2658.html

Moon Aerial Pack looks a little bit better though very similar to Lomo drybag style rucksack I've got which would actually make a perfect crag bag too (because you can just flip it upside down and put everything on a tarp).

In reply to PPP:

Good to see you can still get them then as they are a reasonable price.

The Moon Aeriel looks great too. And with a sturdy back system for people who want that. Hope I didn't miss it when I did my group review, but perhaps they weren't available then.

In reply to paul_in_cumbria, TobyA and PPP:
Thanks -- all good suggestions -- will look them up. Would never have considered a Moon bag!
This offering from BD looks pretty 'rad':
http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en/climbing-packs/pipe-dream-45-pack-BD681...

In reply to The Patriot:

+1 for DMM's Vector.

It's a cragsack, pure and simple; would be a bit useless for any other type of mountain activity.

The large opening is great for packing and unpacking and the fact its self-standing is just brilliant. (Why hasn't this feature ever been thought of before?) I think it's slightly bigger than 45L - or else my other sacks are wrongly labelled - but even fully loaded (and heavy), it's really comfortable to carry.

Yesterday it carried full SRT and rigging kit and 2x50m 10mm statics, plus spare clothing, food, flask, water etc. (Sadly not for climbing but for coastal access work for the NT.)

DMM have got it right with this one IMHO. Best cragsac I've ever owned - and at my age I've owned a few!!

In reply to Jon Read:

Fyi I've used the same Moon bouldering bag for years. Really heavy use. The Moon bags seem pretty well indestructible.

In reply to Dave Williams:


It has - BD have had crag packs with bases styled like haul bags for some time for that reason. I wanted to cover the old version (called the 50 Cal I think) in my review but maybe they weren't selling them in the EU then, so got the the Demon Duffel instead. Now the Creek 50 looks similar, and I saw Bananafingers are selling that model. More expensive than the Vector though (which looks great btw).

In reply to TobyA:

Aha, I was unaware of that. Thanks Toby.

BTW, in addition to the haul bag style base, the Vector also has internal arc stiffeners which also help keep its shape.

The Creek does look good though, but at a price as you say.

In reply to Jon Read:

Yeah, interesting concept, wonder if things could possibly fall out of it?

Just noted that scary thing where Facebook knows what you've been looking at elsewhere on the internet and puts up targeted ads. Fortunately I had been looking just at crag packs! Anyway, the advert was for one of these http://www.patagonia.com/eu/enGB/product/crag-daddy-pack-45-liter?p=48060-0 Bloody expensive again, but looks good. I noted the new version of the Arcteryx one that I have gets lousy reviews on their own site - saying the back system is rubbish compared to the old version (which has a good comfy back for heavy loads). So maybe the Patagonia one might be better in that regard?

In reply to The Patriot:

Another idea would be to use Alpkit DryDock: https://www.alpkit.com/products/drydock-50 .

Durable? Check.
Wide opening? Check.
Option to carry the rope outside the bag? Check(ish).
Cheap and comfortable to carry? Not so much.

OR...

http://www.ewetsuits.com/acatalog/walkers-drybag-rucksack.html

Add couple of daisy chains, make some rope straps and that would be an ideal bag for the price. It's almost free standing, has a wide opening, it's waterproof and foolproof.

I already have 30l version and it's brilliant.

In reply to BnB:


I don't like the idea of a climbing rucksacks main compartment being zipped. I'm often trying to cram stuff in, and once the zip breaks it's useless ?

In reply to TobyA:

I really like the Vector, but to be a really good "crag sack"... it is still missing a few things.

Ice axe loops / attachements would have been nice (I rigged something myself, and it seems to work ok).

For majority of the climbing I've done over the years (except long multi bitch things). The Vector and/or my small haulbag have been more than enough. Both have their pro's and con's, but in my opinion such sack (or something similar) are really good for majority of users.

Naturally for alpine adventures and up & over stuff I have a "proper" climbing sack (BlueIce Warthog 27 or old 'Ryx Cierzo). But for quite a few multipitch adventures, I've also returned to the bottom. In which case I might carry a smaller lightweight sack for the actual climbing portion, but still lug most of the stuff in the haulbag/Vector to the base (and stash it there, together with some extra stuff, like food etc.).

In reply to HeMa:



You probably remember I used to use my Arcteryx crag pack for ice climbing too and that doesn't has ice tool loops either but I could use the tension straps BUT I suspect that Finnish climbers are probably relatively rare in only cragging for ice climbs (i.e. lowering straight off back to your bag!). I guess most designers don't think of crag packs needing ice axe loops.

In reply to TobyA:


Well the TNF ICE project or what ever kind of disagrees. As in it is solely made for winter climbers.

In reply to TobyA:


Not sure where you got that idea Toby, we've been distributing Snap for about three years. Snap Crashpads are stocked by both of your local climbing shops (and the works can get them in for you) but sadly none of them have taken the snapack.

In reply to IainWhitehouse:

Apologies - I looked at Snap's website and although they have markers on their map for some non-French shops there were non marked in the UK, hence my assumption.

I guess Snap haven't marketed so much in the UK in the last couple of years although not being much of a boulderer perhaps that also isn't really the case in more bouldering specific media?

In reply to TobyA:
Re your link to the 2012 article....

Those seem more like large sports crag sacs to me, not 'do all' trad crag sacs (where I always thought a certain level of versatility was key). I thought that at the time I read that article and still looking at it afresh. I wouldn't want to climb with those if I had to. No good in the winter by and large. If spending £100 or so,I'd expect some versatility, not just carry basic gear and sandwich to the crag....

In reply to Skyfall:


That is by definition not a crag sack, but a climbing backpack.

Of course, most people don't really need a dedicated crag sack, a'la Vector, Miura or Neo. But at least in around Sheffield, a crag sack is about perfect. Basically anywhere, where it's single pitch or single pitch with the odd few pitch routes (some of Wales), a crag sack is really nice. And best of all, they'll keep your lighter multibitch/alpine sack in better shape (since you'll not be using it to trash around at local crags).

In reply to HeMa:

"multibitch sack", a rucksack for carrying climbing equipment, that does nothing but moan about the fact?

In reply to Skyfall:


I refer the honourable gentleman to the first line of the article "You don't climb with a crag pack. They're for getting your gear from the car to the bottom of a route and keeping it organised and accessible as you move along a cliff through the day doing routes."

I don't remember the last time I climbed with a pack on at what I would call a crag - even at crags that are 2 pitches. Hence why I think they are called crag sacks. I would call what you describe as a mountain pack and in which case I totally agree with you about the problems of these packs in that role!

In reply to The Patriot:

The original Arctyrx Miura's were fantastic. Super-convenient, well thought-out, nearly indestructible. Plus they can be used as a belay chair (but not a rope bag). They are comfortable and not too bulky and so are excellent for long and/or rough approaches. If I'm going to be carrying my gear in and leaving a pack at the base, this is the pack I take, so although the design is definitely specialized for the crag application, I use it in places many would choose a more traditional backpack.

They occasionally appear on ebay. The updated Miura's eliminated the roll top and compression straps for the clamshell, and instead have zippers that all all the way around. The also eliminated the large outside pocket. These changes seem to me to be a step backwards from the original design, but I don't own the new one so am just guessing. The brand is very expensive, but the quality and details are superb.

In the non-clamshell department, the Trango crag pack is worth considering: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu2nfie1uTU#t=63 .

In reply to needvert:

I like the 30:30 over the 30. I figure if you're going to pay that much to get it and then pay the import duty (pro-tip, get a USA mailbox and forward it to yourself so you don't pay the import duty) you may as well go that little bit bigger. It cinches down nicely so it's not an issue of having too-big!

In reply to The Patriot:

Blue Ice Octopus rucksack is on sale for 30 pounds on SportPursuit. Maybe it's not the ideal sack, but fairly cheap!