UKC

Having planned on a nice Summer trip to Scotland (Glen Coe) for my first experience of Scottish mountains, I have now been informed by my guide/partner that I need to buy a crampon-compatible pair of mountain boots and a set of walking crampons for the descents, as there is still a lot of snow and ice up there at the top.
After three evenings pretty much spent trawling through website after website and a morning of ringing shops that are staffed by people who have never worn a mountain boot, or a crampon, or even tried either on in the shop just for fun, I am now at my wits end and my enthusiasm for the whole trip is melting away (quite unlike the snow in Scotland).

My main problems are this:
a) this is more money than I ever dreamed I would spend on a piece of footwear, so I really don't want to get it wrong; but at the same time, I have no interest in becoming a Winter climber, so this purchase is both unexpected and largely unwanted. (Hurts a lot more!)
b) although I have read and absorbed the grading system of mountain boots, I have only come across two online stores that actually put the grading system on their spec, so 98% of the time I have no idea if what I am looking at is crampon compatible or not. I can't seem to tell by looking at them at all.
c) I don't know what size to buy. Since starting climbing I now own boots/shoes in so many sizes I can't keep up, from climbing shoes, to multi-pitch shoes, to approach shoes, to running shoes, to winter walking boots. They are all different sizes and I now have no idea what to buy, as I have been given really bad advice by sale-hungry shop assistants, and then had to sell and make a huge loss on footwear after only one trip.
d) I don't know what type of crampons to buy. My partner (now incommunicado) said walking crampons, but I see there are three different types of walking crampons (of varying expense) so don't know which is best for snowy/icy descents in Scotland.

The advice I need is:
a) When buying boots to wear with crampons, should they be snug to avoid any movement at all on treacherous ground? Or roomy to allow for lots of thick, wooly socks? Do they tend to come up small because they are stiff, etc? What are people's experiences with these boots? (Mammut and Scarpa particularly)
b) Which type of walking crampons are best for snowy/icy descents in Glen Coe? But obviously 80% of the descent will be dry. (I don't know if we keep stopping and taking them off and on or what. No idea about all of this at all.
c) Any personal recommendations of first-time mountain boots for a lady, light and comfortable, crampon compatible. I'm most worried about the thought of having no sensation or feeling for the ground I'm walking on, I think that is what will be the most strange for me, having done noooooooooooooooooooo Winter climbing or mountaineering before. (Only Wales in the Summer months, in nice comfy approach shoes.)

All help/advice insanely gratefully received, before I cancel and jet off to Kalymnos instead (which would actually save me loads of money!)

Serena.

In reply to Serena Lambre:

What were your original plans for footwear? Most reasonable pairs of walking boot will take a strap on crampon such as the Grivel Monte Rosa (or the rebranded ones Go Outdoors sell). I wouldn't use that as a setup for serious climbing but for the odd patch of ice that would be ample.

If you were thinking of using walking shoes/trainers/approach shoes, there are still strap on crampons such as the KTS which will fit even trainers or lighter boots than above. These would also be fine for the odd icy descent in Scottish summer. To be honest, I'd be surprised if even this was needed during the actual summer months.

The concerns with using crampons with too-light footwear are

Attachment: most higher spec crampons clip on to specific lugs on the boot. Lighter footwear won't have these. Crampons aimed at walking are almost always fully strap on.

Rigidity: if the boots bend but the crampons then either the crampon pops off, or breaks, or wears out faster. More rigid boot/crampon combinations give more support climbing, whereas a more flexy crampon is will fit and stay on a bendier boot.

Have a look here for the KTS crampons, and try any crampons for fit on whatever footwear you'll use before you buy them.

In reply to Serena Lambre:

Glencoe was almost bare when I drove through yesterday and you could avoid the ice almost to the summit of Ben Nevis. I'm not saying there's no snow anywhere but in a month or so there will only be a few avoidable soft patches. No way would I expect to need crampons. I'd relax and just make sure you have a decent pair of boots that are comfortable to walk in all day.

In reply to Anonymous:

Hi. Thank you for your advice. Had not come across these versatile crampons, despite three evenings of non-stop research. It's amazing how much you need to know, and how much you need to 'speak' to a multitude of people to learn!

Okay, so I have looked at the KTS crampons. They look spot on. Do you think the Black Diamond Contact Strap is pretty much the same thing as a KTS? (Just asking as that is in stock in a very local store.)

As for footwear, I didn't really know what to wear. Was just planning on wearing my Merrell approach shoes that are super light and super comfy, and did me very well in Wales, but it was my partner that said, "No! You must have big Winter boots!"
I just spoke to someone working at Glenmore Lodge and he said he would wear approach shoes rather than high-top boots, just as a personal preference. (I am painfully aware that as the second I have to carry all this stuff on my back for both climbers, two pairs of shoes/boots, two sets of crampons, ice axes, plus water/food, etc, so a pair of lightweight approach shoes seems far more appealing to me!) Another factor in footwear is that we have a two-and-half-hour walk in, so don't really want to be in huge winter boots for that.

So, so far, Anonymous, the idea of crampons that attach to approach shoes seems like a tip-top idea!

In reply to BnB:
Thank you, BnB.
Yes, I just spoke to someone at Glenmore Lodge and he said pretty much the same thing.
Really glad I haven't just put £400 on my credit card on stuff I probably won't need!!
S.

In reply to BnB:


Spot on!

In reply to Serena Lambre:


You do not need crampons - of any kind. Nor do you need big stiff winter climbing boots in summer in Scotland.

Perhaps your 'guide/partner' is trying to impress you with his machismo and wishing to demonstrate his/her ability to discover the last hidden bits of snow in Scotland and get you to climb or descend them?

Just wear ordinary boots such as the winter walking boots you say you have.

There isn't anywhere in Scotland you are really going to need anything like new kit such as stiff boots or crampons. (unless he insists on taking you to 'The IceFactor)

If your 'guide' still insists then I'd find another guide or partner.

In reply to Serena Lambre:

Blimey, sounds like you're being used as a bit of a donkey if you're carrying two sets of boots, axes and crampons for the carry in for Scottish summer climbing! I think your kit planning may need a bit of reassessment and your partner needs to stop taking the piss

Wear approach shoes for the approach. If you need rock shoes , each carry your own and change into them. If it's more a mountaineering day, just do it all in approach shoes or boots. Ditch all the winter gear. Split the rack and ropes for the carry in. If you're pitching the routes and it's hard enough the leader can't do it with a bag, fine, the second might stick the leaders presumably fairly empty bag inside their own and bring it up too. If you're talking more a mountaineering/ scrambling affair. , moving together with or without gear you both carry your own bags.

I've not used the BD Contact but I gather it's in the same class as the Monte Rosa, which is to say intended for a B1 boot, but probably ok with something a bit lighter.

A B1 boot is at the heavy end of the "normal" walking boot scale before you start getting into something that starts becoming stiffer to improve climbing and step kicking. A bog standard hiking boot of the type you'd get in cotswold if you went in and asked for a walking boot would probably be ok with a BD Contact, but your approach shoes might not. This would mainly be the security of the crampon on the shoe - KTSs are more flexible and strap around the shoe a bit more. You might find the strapping bites the back of your foot if it is above the back of the shoe.

As I said though, if you do decide to get some crampons, take your shoes/boots/flip flops to the shop and fit the crampons and waddle around trashing the carpet for a few steps.

In reply to Serena Lambre:

By the way I did two munros today in trainers one over 1000m. No axe. Bit of snow to cross but easy spring snow not hard neve. That may change in April/may still, but by June I've never used or needed winter kit in Scotland lived here for about 6 years in total.

In reply to Dave Perry:

Thanks, Dave.
I am getting the same message form everyone here.
Really glad I put my question up on UKC, or I would have been kicking myself in a couple of weeks (which would hurt all the more, as I would have been wearing heavy mountain boots with shiny new crampons on them!)

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Great. Thanks, CurlyStevo.
Good to get the message from someone actually there!! Very helpful.

In reply to Anonymous:

Hi again.
No, I wasn't going to carry all the gear for the walk-in. That would be a bit much! ha ha.
It was just for the actual climbing (multi-pitching) that I was told that would be the plan.
I did that on Tryfan too when I was the second, so thought it was the norm. (I can be a tad easy to fool though, so perhaps I should look around at what others are doing more often!)

Thanks again for your advice.
S.

In reply to Serena Lambre:

I think that's a bit unfair myself. I'd only expect the second to carry all the gear on a particularly trying crux pitch.

In reply to Serena Lambre:

Plus even in the event of a mysteriously unavoidable and unseasonable hard neve patch, having the crampons/boots (but no axe) without the skills to use them would be more dangerous than not having the gear and having to turn back... I have only done a little winter walking/mountaineering but I get usually get the axe out before the crampons...

In reply to Serena Lambre:

Also, as a woman, you probably have smaller feet than most of the blokes giving you advice. Smaller footwear is always stiffer. So if a bloke with big feet says "you can't possibly wear brand XYZ because it isn't stiff enough to take a crampon, and I tried it and the crampon fell off and I nearly died" that may be good advice for his foot size but not yours.

In reply to Serena Lambre:

Well, thank you all for your replies.
I have my regular hiking shoes, a pair of KTS crampons and my sailing gaiters and I'm all packed and ready to go.
.And now it's snowing in Scotland! Ha. Bloody place.
It better be very pretty, I tell ya, cos this had been a stressful few weeks, and meanwhile my friends are all getting sunburnt in Kalymnos!!

Well, hopefully if it's snowing there will be no midges, right?
And I have twenty packs of Hot Hands, so I should be okay for four days!!

Thanks again.
You all helped me out no end.
S.