UKC

PRODUCT NEWS: DMM Pivot

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 UKC Gear 23 Apr 2015
The DMM Pivot belay device, 4 kb

Versatile, functional and innovative; the Pivot is a state-of-the-art belay device catering for modern belay techniques with the latest ropes.



Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/news.php?id=7134
 David Barlow 23 Apr 2015
In reply to UKC Gear:

So compared to a MegaJul:

Megajul
- Plus: while not officially autolocking, does provide extra auto-locking function when lead belaying.
- Plus: possibly more versatile for abseiling since it can auto-lock.
- Negative: on a multipitch climb when swapping from bringing up a second to lead belaying them, you've got to re-feed the ropes the other way through the device. This confuses people and takes longer.

Pivot:
- Plus: don't have to re-feed ropes on multipitch route.
- Plus: slightly larger rope range for half ropes (Megajul 7.8-9.0; Pivot 7.3-9.2)
- Made in Wales

How is the pivot for quickly playing out rope when lead belaying?

Looks like I might be replacing my MegaJul...
1
 TobyA 23 Apr 2015
In reply to David Barlow:

> How is the pivot for quickly playing out rope when lead belaying?

Very smooth using it with singles so far. My son (11) who is just learning to belay (and to be honest I'm still not totally confident with his ability yet!), found the mega jul too grabby and he couldn't work out a way to smoothly pay out while keep his hand in the right place on the dead rope. I gave him the Pivot and he belayed me very smoothly. BUT I sort of wish he could use the megajul for the reason you say - it is basically auto locking which will help a beginner. The pivot is a very classic belay device when used the normal way so people need to be belaying properly with it. Also even for experienced climbers, the megajul would be better for belaying people projecting sports routes because of the locking function, like a grigri.

> Looks like I might be replacing my MegaJul...

 Richard Hall 24 Apr 2015
In reply to UKC Gear:

Having just shipped all my pre-orders I can confirm that the most popular colour is .......

Green!
 Steve nevers 24 Apr 2015
In reply to UKC Gear:

How strong are the pivots on the pivot then?
 PPP 24 Apr 2015
In reply to Steve nevers:

That's an interesting question - I can't find the requirements in the following UIAA certificate:
http://www.theuiaa.org/upload_area/files/1/UIAA_129_braking_device_2009%281...
 Steve nevers 24 Apr 2015
In reply to PPP:

> That's an interesting question - I can't find the requirements in the following UIAA certificate:


I'd just like to know before I hang my second off it!
 More-On 24 Apr 2015
In reply to Steve nevers:

16kN according to DMM on their facebook page a month back
Simon Marsh 24 Apr 2015
In reply to Steve nevers:

Hi Steve,

The Pivot guide mode anchor connection point is rated to a minimum of 16kN.

I hope this helps.

Regards

Simon Marsh

DMM International
 Steve nevers 24 Apr 2015
In reply to Simon Marsh:

Thanks Simon, was pondering it as I looked at the design, I have one on my 'Do Want' list.
 PPP 24 Apr 2015
In reply to Simon Marsh:

Hi Simon, there were few concerns (raised by me) why is the Rhino recommended for belaying with the Pivot. Are DMM Sentinel/Boa not round or beefy enough for that use? I tried to use Gridlock, Boa and Rhino with the BD ATC Guide and even though Rhino might have performed the best, there wasn't a huge difference between them. I am not really sold by the idea that it reduces cross loading as that doesn't occur that often.

I still wonder how easy it is to release the Pivot in a guide mode. I feel quite tempted to attempt to abseil in a guide mode. That should be quite useful in single pitch environment where you need to hang on the rope to retreat some stuck gear. I noticed that very few people carry prusik cord while cragging.
Simon Marsh 24 Apr 2015
In reply to PPP:

Hi,

All plates when used in guide mode will work best with a locking carabiner that has a round cross-section in connection with the rope(s). A round top bar with a wide diameter makes the action feel smooth and consistent rather than jerky.

The Rhino works well with the Pivot for these reasons and this is why we package the two together.

The Rhino is great at reducing cross-loading on kit that has a narrow connection point (pulleys, GRIGRI, etc), but that was not the reason foe recommending it with the Pivot.

On your final note I certainly think that carrying prusik cords is really sensible and a great way of avoiding/getting out of trouble.

Regards

Simon Marsh

DMM International
 PPP 24 Apr 2015
In reply to Simon Marsh:

Thanks for an out-of-office hours reply! It indeed is quite smooth operation. To be fair, Rhino is one of my most favourite carabiners anyway.

I didn't mean to include the abseiling in an undocumented way in the reply to your previous post. It's something to be tried but never used in the field. I am probably over fascinated by the DMM Pivot!
 solomonkey 24 Apr 2015
In reply to PPP:

With a prusik and a footloop up top(above) you can also use it in guide mode to ascend a rope handy at gogarth you can with most guide plates , but with the pivot you can also ab back down easily when halfway up you spot your rope caught at the bottom !
 PPP 24 Apr 2015
In reply to Colza:

Yes, I've done that before, but it's way much worse than using an ascender and grigri!
 PPP 25 Apr 2015
In reply to UKC Gear:
Got my DMM Pivot today. The lowering definitely works (and better than I expected).

I set up two identical systems in guide mode with BD ATC Guide and DMM Pivot (same carabiners used) with 10kg load each. Then equalized the releasing system so that if the sling is pulled, both of devices would receive the same amount of force (for releasing, that is). The load under the ATC did not move at all while the load under the Pivot was moving slowly down. I gave a little bit more force and almost dropped the weight at my feet while the load under the ATC just creaked a little bit. After several tries, DMM Pivot always was easier to release.
I tried to use the Pivot and the ATC Guide independently with 20kg load. The results were even more significant and a lot more force was required to release the load under ATC Guide. Sadly, I am not physicist and I do not have any equipment to quote any figures.

Overall build quality seems really nice and the release hole is big enough to fit most of the carabiners. The pivoting bit is not as annoying as I worried about - it does not make the device any bigger. I believe that the Pivot is even lighter than BD ATC Guide.

Due to the exams, I can't make a field test, but I have never been so much excited about the belay device (not even Grigri) before!

P.s. 8.5mm rope was used.
Post edited at 20:54
 TobyA 25 Apr 2015
In reply to Simon Marsh:

Hi Simon, I'm reviewing the Pivot for UKC. I've been using it with a Belay Master as that's just what I happen to have and, from my preliminary usage, it seems very smooth with that krab. But I note you recommend the Rhino, and that's what is being used in the product video too.

Is there any reason why the belay master wouldn't be good? Normally I never worry too much about these sorts of things but I did notice that the instructions that came with my Edelrid Mega Jul stated specifically not to use it with a krab with a plastic widget like the Belay Master (actually, does anyone except make an HMS with such a widget beside DMM?). I really can't see why a krab held captive in the correct position on your belay loop, as the Belay Master does, could cause an issues with the Mega Jul but that's what Edelrid said*. So when I noticed DMM suggests the Rhino for use with the Pivot, not the belay master, it reminded me of that odd advice from Edelrid. Is the top bar profile of the Rhino much different from that of the Belay Master? Would any round bar HMS work ok with the Pivot?

*Even more confusingly, downloading the tech instructions for the Mega Jul now from Edelrid's site, it seems they have removed the advice panel saying "NO!" to a krab that looked suspiciously like the belay master... Curiouser and curiouser.
 solomonkey 26 Apr 2015
In reply to PPP:

If you want to take a handjammer and gri gri to gogarth that is ? Bit of a weight difference ! You would normally have a belay anyway , but the pivot can ascend and descend a rope much easier than 2 shoe laces !
Maybe Not as easy as a gri gri/ ascender but do you carry them everywhere ?

 PPP 26 Apr 2015
In reply to Colza:

If I take an ab rope, I usually take grigri and ropeman (which is small). I guess I'm just used to heavy loads as I had to bring two single ropes, full trad rack and few other things up the hill this year already. Wasn't fun, but wasn't too bad either (still, better than carrying two weeks worth of food in Scottish hills - that proved to be a quite bad idea, even though I've done similar stuff before).

I don't drive, so I usually cycle or take a train as well.

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