UKC

Bit of a straw poll - just wondering if you would consider resting on the rope and/or resting on other coloured holds as part of a "clean" attempt. In other words - would you still say you've done the route fair and square if you've had a copious amount of rest on the rope or other holds? What about when clipping - is it okay to use other holds as part of a clean ascent?

In reply to SenzuBean:
I hate to sound harsh, but here goes.

You are a cock!

ETA. If this is a genuine question, I apologise. But I find it hard to believe it is!

In reply to SenzuBean:

Climbing is all an artificially constructed challenge. Indoor climbing even more so. The only thing that really matters is honesty with yourself and others about what you've achieved. Getting up a climb, even with rests on the rope or other holds, is an achievement. It wouldn't be counted within the generally held definition of a "clean" ascent, though.

In reply to Luke90:

Much more diplomatically put than me. I congratulate you.

In reply to SenzuBean:

No, no and no.

A "clean" ascent is doing the route top to bottom without weighting the gear. Also using only holds that are part of the route (when indoors, usually not applicable outdoors)

However, if you're talking about training value then there's no particular reason to care about whether you do an indoor route "clean" or not, and using a jug from a different route to rest or clip is certainly better for training effect than hanging on the rope.

In reply to Oceanrower:


Being inexperienced, naive or ignorant about free-climbing styles does not make one a cock. Hurling unnecessary abuse about on web forums though might be enough to qualify.

In reply to stp:

As someone who feels he is qualified enough to offer advice to other people on glacier travel and the correct knot for abseiling, I would think that SenzuBean should be able to work out whether an ascent is "clean" or not.

As I said above, if it is a genuine question, then I apologise.

I suspect it's not.

In reply to SenzuBean:

Not sure what the op means by 'other coloured holds'. Most of the ones I grab are a sort of uniform browny grey rock colour. I try to avoid the yellowy ones though; they tend to be friable.

In reply to SenzuBean:

Was actually a genuine question. I did not and do not think it counts at all - but recently have met a few people who counted such attempts (causing me to doubt if it really is bad ethics), so I wanted to ask around to find out if it was common or even accepted - seems its utterly not accepted, and I just must have met a string of 'cheaters'.

@Le Chevalier Mal Fet - very clever I did post this in the 'indoor/training' section so I did imply indoors only.

In reply to SenzuBean:

In that case, I am sorry for my earlier remark. It realy did seem like a poor troll.

Ask the people tellling you this, if you can use some other coloured holds and still call it a "clean" ascent, what would constitute a "dirty" ascent? More than 3 wrong holds? Five? More than two colours? Where would you stop?

It would be nice if I could climb green 4+ and claim the white 7a on the same line because I only used 'some' of the green holds and all the white!

In fact, I might try getting away with that next time........

In reply to SenzuBean:

Given that nobody else really cares what you've climbed you're pretty much free to count anything you like as a 'clean' ascent. Personally, I'm not happy I've done a route until I've climbed it in the style the grading expects (i.e. if you climb a 6b route with rests on the rope then you haven't done a 6b difficulty climb).

In reply to SenzuBean:

This is nothing to laugh at but a common medical condition Pump Induced Deuteranopia suffered by many indoor climbers. In this condition high levels of forearm pump are observed to result in reduced blood circulation to the optic nerve inducing temporary colour blindness.

In reply to BarrySW19:

Well, I suppose that's true, but if you do you'll be lying to yourself. It's an ascent, but definitely not 'clean'.

In reply to BarrySW19:


That's very true - but if you want to compare your apples with someone else's apples - then you had better not have oranges

In reply to SenzuBean:
What you describe is 'resting'. The sport is called 'climbing'. To have asked the question you have, I do not think the word 'climbing' means what you think it means.

In reply to Shani:


As someone else has pointed out, 'climbing' is a social construct which means that it's a term that humans have invented and defined. The meanings of words vary an awful lot, some of the expressions that have been used above are very good examples of that! It is only through having discussions like this that a shared understanding of what these terms mean emerges. None of the definitions came to us inscribed on tablets of stone via Moses, even though some people here may fancy themselves as being a bit of a Moses and may even look like him!

In reply to Shani:


Please read the rest of the thread - the way I asked the question was a bit disingenuous (I asked it in a deliberately provocative manner), I should've stated upfront the whole story.