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I am looking into becoming professionally registered as an engineer through the Engineering council and a PEI. I was wondering if anyone on here is registered as IEng/CEng and what there thoughts are on the process and whether it is worth while?
My current thoughts for PEI are IMechE, IET or SOE. This is due to holding a BEng(hons) in Mechanical Engineering.
Any advise for or against would be much appreciated!
My current thoughts for PEI are IMechE, IET or SOE. This is due to holding a BEng(hons) in Mechanical Engineering.
Any advise for or against would be much appreciated!
In reply to Doad13:
Pretty much pain free. Write report, send in, brief interview to check you are the person in report. The only thing is making sure your report covers most of the requirements any of the professional organisations set out.
Start paying even more money to whichever organisation you're registered with.
Pretty much pain free. Write report, send in, brief interview to check you are the person in report. The only thing is making sure your report covers most of the requirements any of the professional organisations set out.
Start paying even more money to whichever organisation you're registered with.
In reply to Doad13:
Very few areas of work require this but it helps with the CV and promotes the profession.
Very few areas of work require this but it helps with the CV and promotes the profession.
In reply to Offwidth:
Ironically we are being pushed towards getting chartered - I work in academia FFS.
Ironically we are being pushed towards getting chartered - I work in academia FFS.
In reply to Doad13:
For CEng, you'll need further learning up to MEng equivalence for IMechE.
Employers like it, especially if you fancy climbing the slippery pole of responsibility, and they can sell you for more if it’s an engineering service company. I am regularly chastised by my bosses for not sorting it.
For CEng, you'll need further learning up to MEng equivalence for IMechE.
Employers like it, especially if you fancy climbing the slippery pole of responsibility, and they can sell you for more if it’s an engineering service company. I am regularly chastised by my bosses for not sorting it.
In reply to Doad13:
Some employers run a mentor scheme for professional registration. I wouldn't do this, you end up writing quarterly reports for 5 years, and then going through the same application process as everyone else! I'm just about ready to submit my application and it has taken me a couple of afternoon's work to prepare. As long as you do your job for 5 years you'll have enough behind you to fill in all the various competencies they require, especially as they support you with your application and offer advice before you submit.
Some employers run a mentor scheme for professional registration. I wouldn't do this, you end up writing quarterly reports for 5 years, and then going through the same application process as everyone else! I'm just about ready to submit my application and it has taken me a couple of afternoon's work to prepare. As long as you do your job for 5 years you'll have enough behind you to fill in all the various competencies they require, especially as they support you with your application and offer advice before you submit.
In reply to Removed User:
Thats been said for decades: a significant proportion still don't bother (excepting Civils who nearly always join).
We are currently being forced into being members of the HEA: a management run organisation where some staff development bod ticks boxes on you paper submission to 'prove' you are qualified to teach at University level, for the sake of the gullible masses and their parents. We even had the stupid situation where the PGCHE wasnt good enough for the HEA tick-boxers. It's funny how 31 years into my academic career this has become important.
Thats been said for decades: a significant proportion still don't bother (excepting Civils who nearly always join).
We are currently being forced into being members of the HEA: a management run organisation where some staff development bod ticks boxes on you paper submission to 'prove' you are qualified to teach at University level, for the sake of the gullible masses and their parents. We even had the stupid situation where the PGCHE wasnt good enough for the HEA tick-boxers. It's funny how 31 years into my academic career this has become important.
Post edited at 14:42
In reply to Doad13:
From what I have read up so far I would be applying for Incorporated, my area of work doesn't require it but as mentioned it would help with CV should I have a shift in career.
Tom you make it sound so easy! In terms of covering the requirements, I have read the competence list from the engineering council (UK-SPEC) do you know if you need an different example for each one our could you apply a single project at work across a multiple of these as long as you cover what is required?
Out of the majority of people I still have contact with from university none of these are professionally registered and see no need to push forward with it.
From what I have read up so far I would be applying for Incorporated, my area of work doesn't require it but as mentioned it would help with CV should I have a shift in career.
Tom you make it sound so easy! In terms of covering the requirements, I have read the competence list from the engineering council (UK-SPEC) do you know if you need an different example for each one our could you apply a single project at work across a multiple of these as long as you cover what is required?
Out of the majority of people I still have contact with from university none of these are professionally registered and see no need to push forward with it.
In reply to Offwidth:
Yep, I completed an interminable PGCertHE back in the day to get FHEA because Sheff Uni wouldn't grant promotion without it, even though I'd been lecturing for years.
Yep, I completed an interminable PGCertHE back in the day to get FHEA because Sheff Uni wouldn't grant promotion without it, even though I'd been lecturing for years.
In reply to Doad13:
Not sure about Incorporated Engineer, but I went through chartership process a couple of years ago for CEng Status. My employer does put a lot of stock by chartership, and pays the fees so a bit of a no brainer for me!
The process wasn't hard, though would have been easier if I'd been part of a MPDS etc. IMarEST (who I registered with) send out a spreadsheet showing the required competencies that you need to demonstrate in order to achieve chartership. The interview was pretty in depth, it'll be with a team of people who are very familiar with your industry and profession so you won't be ab le to blag it. Mine was about 75mins long, I know others who've had longer though. It'll depend on the quality of your presentation and how well you demonstrate your competancies.
You don't need to have a separate project for each competency, but unless it's a very large project I'd say you'll struggle as they do want to see breadth of experience as well as depth. Might not be the case if it's a long term research type position which is inherently tightly focussed though.
Though the standard is set by the Engineering Council UK, you can still be unlucky with interviewer. For example I had a nightmare interviewer who didn't want to approve my application as I didn't have "enough evidence of bringing new / innovative solutions to the market place" (my role has nothing to do with design), despite being named as co-inventor on a couple of patents from an earlier job. Fortunately as it's a panel rather than an individual interviewer overly harsh / daft individuals tend to be ironed out. Doesn't make the interview feel any easier!
Is it worth it? As the job market gets more competitive, a way of standing out from other applications doesn't hurt. If professional registration is very common in your industry, then not having it could lead to questions. It is expensive though! I think if my employer didn't pay, I'd be tempted to drop it after a a few years and keep a record of Professional Development, and explain that Having made the standard once, I didn't feel the need to keep paying to be allowed to keep the letters after my name and then demonstrate what I'd done since as professional development.
You'll need someone to sign off on your application who is already chartered (or IMarEST does anyway) - they are the best people to speak to about readiness etc. Contact the institution you intend to apply via if no-one where you work is chartered - they should be able to sort out a local mentor to discuss your application. They'll pretty quickly establish whether you've done enough to stand a chance.
PM me if you want to chat about the process, I can probably rake out the tables of competencies too if you like.
Cheers,
Stu
Not sure about Incorporated Engineer, but I went through chartership process a couple of years ago for CEng Status. My employer does put a lot of stock by chartership, and pays the fees so a bit of a no brainer for me!
The process wasn't hard, though would have been easier if I'd been part of a MPDS etc. IMarEST (who I registered with) send out a spreadsheet showing the required competencies that you need to demonstrate in order to achieve chartership. The interview was pretty in depth, it'll be with a team of people who are very familiar with your industry and profession so you won't be ab le to blag it. Mine was about 75mins long, I know others who've had longer though. It'll depend on the quality of your presentation and how well you demonstrate your competancies.
You don't need to have a separate project for each competency, but unless it's a very large project I'd say you'll struggle as they do want to see breadth of experience as well as depth. Might not be the case if it's a long term research type position which is inherently tightly focussed though.
Though the standard is set by the Engineering Council UK, you can still be unlucky with interviewer. For example I had a nightmare interviewer who didn't want to approve my application as I didn't have "enough evidence of bringing new / innovative solutions to the market place" (my role has nothing to do with design), despite being named as co-inventor on a couple of patents from an earlier job. Fortunately as it's a panel rather than an individual interviewer overly harsh / daft individuals tend to be ironed out. Doesn't make the interview feel any easier!
Is it worth it? As the job market gets more competitive, a way of standing out from other applications doesn't hurt. If professional registration is very common in your industry, then not having it could lead to questions. It is expensive though! I think if my employer didn't pay, I'd be tempted to drop it after a a few years and keep a record of Professional Development, and explain that Having made the standard once, I didn't feel the need to keep paying to be allowed to keep the letters after my name and then demonstrate what I'd done since as professional development.
You'll need someone to sign off on your application who is already chartered (or IMarEST does anyway) - they are the best people to speak to about readiness etc. Contact the institution you intend to apply via if no-one where you work is chartered - they should be able to sort out a local mentor to discuss your application. They'll pretty quickly establish whether you've done enough to stand a chance.
PM me if you want to chat about the process, I can probably rake out the tables of competencies too if you like.
Cheers,
Stu
2
In reply to Offwidth:
Tell me about it - I have a 7000 word dissertation and portfolio to submit after I've done my marking. HEA has spoilt my summer.
Tell me about it - I have a 7000 word dissertation and portfolio to submit after I've done my marking. HEA has spoilt my summer.
In reply to Doad13:
I once went through the process of accrediting a degree that I run with the Energy Institute. I thought it would be good for us as a team to go through the process, and add value to the qualification for the students.
They came, the went and I haven't yet submitted for their consideration the minor things that they wanted us to do.
This is not because I doubt the value of the process in helping to ensure that what we offer is fit for purpose. I very much appreciated the comments from the industry and academic people on the panel.
As for the Institute itself, I was not at all impressed. We were required to take the panel out for a meal on the night of their arrival, and pay for it. They all chose the most expensive thing on the menu and I had to endure an evening of them talking at length to each other about football. The next day they expected us to rearrange the order of meetings, just like that, even though many of the attendees were senior managers coming from all over the county, who just may have had other meetings in other places at several other times of the day. Afterwards, the Energy Institute rep submitted an expenses claim without receipts of £300 just for food alone, despite us having supplied one evening meal and one lunch.
I thought they were contemptible and have had nothing more to do with them.
I once went through the process of accrediting a degree that I run with the Energy Institute. I thought it would be good for us as a team to go through the process, and add value to the qualification for the students.
They came, the went and I haven't yet submitted for their consideration the minor things that they wanted us to do.
This is not because I doubt the value of the process in helping to ensure that what we offer is fit for purpose. I very much appreciated the comments from the industry and academic people on the panel.
As for the Institute itself, I was not at all impressed. We were required to take the panel out for a meal on the night of their arrival, and pay for it. They all chose the most expensive thing on the menu and I had to endure an evening of them talking at length to each other about football. The next day they expected us to rearrange the order of meetings, just like that, even though many of the attendees were senior managers coming from all over the county, who just may have had other meetings in other places at several other times of the day. Afterwards, the Energy Institute rep submitted an expenses claim without receipts of £300 just for food alone, despite us having supplied one evening meal and one lunch.
I thought they were contemptible and have had nothing more to do with them.
2
In reply to StuDoig:
The more I use this site the more useful I find it!
Thanks for the reply you covered quite a few points that I had queries about.
I think like you say it is best to get in touch with the institution I intend on applying with. As far as I am aware I would be the only person at my company to apply for professional registration for engineering. Speaking with the local mentor would then be able to point out areas of weakness that I should focus on to improve.
The only really negative I have is the cost for what I would get out of it, I can't see it aiding me in my current industry however feel if I am to do it now is the time. I have CPD records even prior to me completing my degree so all them along with work related projects should help me with the competencies.
Cheers, David
The more I use this site the more useful I find it!
Thanks for the reply you covered quite a few points that I had queries about.
I think like you say it is best to get in touch with the institution I intend on applying with. As far as I am aware I would be the only person at my company to apply for professional registration for engineering. Speaking with the local mentor would then be able to point out areas of weakness that I should focus on to improve.
The only really negative I have is the cost for what I would get out of it, I can't see it aiding me in my current industry however feel if I am to do it now is the time. I have CPD records even prior to me completing my degree so all them along with work related projects should help me with the competencies.
Cheers, David
In reply to Doad13:
Hi. I have just completed my application for CEng. I have an MEng degree and 6 years of experience. The 2 key factors for me were having enough relevant years of professional experience and getting suitable referees. If you've been in an engineering role for a reasonable number of years (I'd say 4+) then this shouldn't be an issue providing you still get on with more senior people as they are who are required for the referees. I've got 6 years experience and that was more than enough for the application, in terms of being able to demonstrate all of the required competencies and CPD.
My interview was relatively straightforward. Nothing too hard, as I knew exactly what I'd written for the application and it was enough to meet the requirements. I think they become more challenging if your application is 'borderline' or you have an annoying interviewer.
I work in Oil and Gas in an engineering role and it's worth doing in this field, although not essential. I think the majority of people do it at some point in there careers, and it's either people who are very keen to progress doing it early, or people like me who do it when they've got some spare time a bit later on!
I found a lot of colleagues very helpful with the application once I mentioned I was doing it, really useful having someone who's done the process check your application.
Mine application was with the Institute of Materials, Minerals and Mining.
Hi. I have just completed my application for CEng. I have an MEng degree and 6 years of experience. The 2 key factors for me were having enough relevant years of professional experience and getting suitable referees. If you've been in an engineering role for a reasonable number of years (I'd say 4+) then this shouldn't be an issue providing you still get on with more senior people as they are who are required for the referees. I've got 6 years experience and that was more than enough for the application, in terms of being able to demonstrate all of the required competencies and CPD.
My interview was relatively straightforward. Nothing too hard, as I knew exactly what I'd written for the application and it was enough to meet the requirements. I think they become more challenging if your application is 'borderline' or you have an annoying interviewer.
I work in Oil and Gas in an engineering role and it's worth doing in this field, although not essential. I think the majority of people do it at some point in there careers, and it's either people who are very keen to progress doing it early, or people like me who do it when they've got some spare time a bit later on!
I found a lot of colleagues very helpful with the application once I mentioned I was doing it, really useful having someone who's done the process check your application.
Mine application was with the Institute of Materials, Minerals and Mining.
In reply to Removed User:
The extra work is annoying. The really bad bit is the overall public cost alongside conning the UK public that we somehow by magic become more qualified. Its possibly the biggest scam going on in education and I can't believe its not been exposed yet on some Panorama like show (I estimate the staff time to have cost something over a quarter of a million pounds of public money just at my institution) . At least you learn some useful stuff on a PGCHE and feel you earned a real qualification... how the f*ck does the mass writing of dissertations marked by Staff Develeopment at huge public expense qualify a sector to teach?
The extra work is annoying. The really bad bit is the overall public cost alongside conning the UK public that we somehow by magic become more qualified. Its possibly the biggest scam going on in education and I can't believe its not been exposed yet on some Panorama like show (I estimate the staff time to have cost something over a quarter of a million pounds of public money just at my institution) . At least you learn some useful stuff on a PGCHE and feel you earned a real qualification... how the f*ck does the mass writing of dissertations marked by Staff Develeopment at huge public expense qualify a sector to teach?
Post edited at 11:24
In reply to Matt250:
Thanks for all the feedback! I have decided to go forth with the application and see what I still need for the competencies etc. I completed my degree while working so I am hoping this will help speed up the process due to having a few extra years of experience in the bag.
For the interview I will just have to keep my fingers crossed it isn't an annoying interviewer.
Now time for cross mapping work with the competencies and refreshing the CV.
Thanks for all the feedback! I have decided to go forth with the application and see what I still need for the competencies etc. I completed my degree while working so I am hoping this will help speed up the process due to having a few extra years of experience in the bag.
For the interview I will just have to keep my fingers crossed it isn't an annoying interviewer.
Now time for cross mapping work with the competencies and refreshing the CV.
In reply to Offwidth:
I never saw any evidence that my professional institute did any good for the profession, so I never joined. 30 years on, I see no change, so I still haven't joined. From what I see around me, CEng looks more for evidence of management, not engineering. If I'd wanted to be a manager, I'd have done a management degree, and no doubt joined a professional management body, since such letters seem important in that field.
> Very few areas of work require this but it helps with the CV and promotes the profession.
I never saw any evidence that my professional institute did any good for the profession, so I never joined. 30 years on, I see no change, so I still haven't joined. From what I see around me, CEng looks more for evidence of management, not engineering. If I'd wanted to be a manager, I'd have done a management degree, and no doubt joined a professional management body, since such letters seem important in that field.
2
In reply to Doad13:
As mentioned before I think the interview in part depends on how convincing they find your "report".
With regards to getting accredited, i'd suggest its easier to join a professional body, then apply through them, rather than join and apply at the same time.
To those saying that its pointless, I think that very much depends on which section of the industry you're in. My professional body is useless, but if you're not chartered you won't get a look in at most decent jobs.
As mentioned before I think the interview in part depends on how convincing they find your "report".
With regards to getting accredited, i'd suggest its easier to join a professional body, then apply through them, rather than join and apply at the same time.
To those saying that its pointless, I think that very much depends on which section of the industry you're in. My professional body is useless, but if you're not chartered you won't get a look in at most decent jobs.
1
In reply to captain paranoia:
You're like someone from 'what have the Romans done for us' sketch. Aside from the obvious management of the professional qualifications, they help promote Engineering with schools, they provide support and advice for students, they benchmark the quality of accredited courses, they maintain excellent information resources, they run communication on the web and in newsletters and magazines (that inform and discuss current issues in the profession), they award grants to support various initiatives, they facilitate national and local talks of interest, they link to government where appropriate and even provide retirement homes in some cases. Im sure Ive forgot stuff as well.
You could have argued that are not great value for money or have not been as effective in improving the status of the profession (as say in some other European countries) but to say there is no evidence they did anything good for the profession is plain dumb.
You're like someone from 'what have the Romans done for us' sketch. Aside from the obvious management of the professional qualifications, they help promote Engineering with schools, they provide support and advice for students, they benchmark the quality of accredited courses, they maintain excellent information resources, they run communication on the web and in newsletters and magazines (that inform and discuss current issues in the profession), they award grants to support various initiatives, they facilitate national and local talks of interest, they link to government where appropriate and even provide retirement homes in some cases. Im sure Ive forgot stuff as well.
You could have argued that are not great value for money or have not been as effective in improving the status of the profession (as say in some other European countries) but to say there is no evidence they did anything good for the profession is plain dumb.
Post edited at 16:29
In reply to Offwidth:
This is what I had in mind, certainly as far as electronics is concerned (well, the IEE/IET, anyway). The fact that the person who comes to fix your washing machine is an 'engineer', and the people who build advanced technology projects are 'scientists' shows how much has been done for public perception of the profession.
Many of your other examples are duplicated by plenty of other sources, mostly commercial, such as manufacturers and trade magazines.
Maintaining 'professional qualifications' is a bit self-referential, being the club rules... If you don't do CPD in a rapidly advancing field like electronics, you fall behind. But CPD generally comes naturally, as you're constantly learning new stuff.
> or have not been as effective in improving the status of the profession
This is what I had in mind, certainly as far as electronics is concerned (well, the IEE/IET, anyway). The fact that the person who comes to fix your washing machine is an 'engineer', and the people who build advanced technology projects are 'scientists' shows how much has been done for public perception of the profession.
Many of your other examples are duplicated by plenty of other sources, mostly commercial, such as manufacturers and trade magazines.
Maintaining 'professional qualifications' is a bit self-referential, being the club rules... If you don't do CPD in a rapidly advancing field like electronics, you fall behind. But CPD generally comes naturally, as you're constantly learning new stuff.
In reply to galpinos:
Yes. Which is senseless but may explain why the UK persistently lags behind neighbouring engineering-driven economies. Get them to do a sh1t-load of maths for five years and then make them managers which they know nothing about. Clever stuff.
In the 70s and 80s I remember people in engineering offices (of which there were a lot more!) discussing how the engineering profession could organise itself and engineering education a lot better. We looked around the world and clearly more management subjects and more languages were top of the list: organise and communicate. Repeating the final year and calling it a Masters didn't feature. Paying people enough to afford the fees and the CPD would be nice too. Not impressed.
However, opportunities to change things normally only occur on the inside. Pay the fees and speak out.
(Oh, and don't bother arguing with Germans about nuts and bolts. They seem to find more time for component fundamentals as well English, Italian, industrial management, economics and the maths.)
> For CEng, you'll need further learning up to MEng equivalence for IMechE.
> Employers like it, especially if you fancy climbing the slippery pole of responsibility, and they can sell you for more if it’s an engineering service company. ...
Yes. Which is senseless but may explain why the UK persistently lags behind neighbouring engineering-driven economies. Get them to do a sh1t-load of maths for five years and then make them managers which they know nothing about. Clever stuff.
In the 70s and 80s I remember people in engineering offices (of which there were a lot more!) discussing how the engineering profession could organise itself and engineering education a lot better. We looked around the world and clearly more management subjects and more languages were top of the list: organise and communicate. Repeating the final year and calling it a Masters didn't feature. Paying people enough to afford the fees and the CPD would be nice too. Not impressed.
However, opportunities to change things normally only occur on the inside. Pay the fees and speak out.
(Oh, and don't bother arguing with Germans about nuts and bolts. They seem to find more time for component fundamentals as well English, Italian, industrial management, economics and the maths.)
1
In reply to captain paranoia:
Just do not ####ing start me!
Maybe you and I are but there are plenty of pension-watching sloths out there learning nothing.
> This is what I had in mind, certainly as far as electronics is concerned (well, the IEE/IET, anyway). The fact that the person who comes to fix your washing machine is an 'engineer', and the people who build advanced technology projects are 'scientists' shows how much has been done for public perception of the profession.
Just do not ####ing start me!
> ... as you're constantly learning new stuff.
Maybe you and I are but there are plenty of pension-watching sloths out there learning nothing.
1
In reply to Jim Fraser:
Then I do not see how they are continuing to do their jobs (certainly not in electronics). You simply cannot compete if you don't advance your knowledge and use the latest technologies (except in some niche fields), so their employer will go bankrupt and they'll be out of a job.
22 years ago, I was asked to interview someone for a project in a sister company, and the CV was full of 74 series logic this, 6800 that. No mention of PLA or FPGA skills that we were looking for at the time, and were rapidly becoming the industry norm. So I was going to grill him on the state of his skills. In the end, he didn't turn up...
> Maybe you and I are but there are plenty of pension-watching sloths out there learning nothing.
Then I do not see how they are continuing to do their jobs (certainly not in electronics). You simply cannot compete if you don't advance your knowledge and use the latest technologies (except in some niche fields), so their employer will go bankrupt and they'll be out of a job.
22 years ago, I was asked to interview someone for a project in a sister company, and the CV was full of 74 series logic this, 6800 that. No mention of PLA or FPGA skills that we were looking for at the time, and were rapidly becoming the industry norm. So I was going to grill him on the state of his skills. In the end, he didn't turn up...
In reply to Offwidth:
He's got it totally right for Electronics. The UK organisations are a waste of space. Electronics is pretty much pure border-free capitalism and the professional society for the whole world is the US society the IEEE.
> You're like someone from 'what have the Romans done for us' sketch. Aside from the obvious management of the professional qualifications, they help promote Engineering with schools, they provide support and advice for students, they benchmark the quality of accredited courses,
He's got it totally right for Electronics. The UK organisations are a waste of space. Electronics is pretty much pure border-free capitalism and the professional society for the whole world is the US society the IEEE.
In reply to captain paranoia:
Well for an engineer I'd have hoped for a better answer than that. Ignoring clear evidence (which you denied) by saying others do it? For all the faults of course accreditation I'm glad it happens... given many government pressures and compliant educators, exploition of the subject could occur otherwise. IET is also the least successful of the professional organisations (unless you work in Electrical Engineering).
Well for an engineer I'd have hoped for a better answer than that. Ignoring clear evidence (which you denied) by saying others do it? For all the faults of course accreditation I'm glad it happens... given many government pressures and compliant educators, exploition of the subject could occur otherwise. IET is also the least successful of the professional organisations (unless you work in Electrical Engineering).
In reply to Offwidth:
I don't consider the list of things you gave to be important, sorry. University course accreditation is an education thing, not a professional thing. As you're an academic, I can see that might be important to you.
Self-referential, and largely irrelevant on the ground (in my field); barring HR, I have never in 30 years been asked if I was a member of a professional body, or told that being one was a requirement for the job I was doing.
See my earlier point about public awareness.
Didn't hear a word from them when I was doing my degree; can't say it bothered me...
Academic courses. If universities start producing sub-par graduates, they won't get employed, and in the brave new world of academia, the university had better shape up, or they won't get applications. The down side of that is industry looking to academia for a too-focussed course, where a more thorough grounding in the fundamentals would be better.
So do a whole raft of other commercial ventures; nothing unique here. See also the vastly superior IEEE.
Now you're getting desperate.
The professional qualifications I was referring to are the Institute qualifications, not academic qualifications.
So you agree with me; the IET hasn't made a good job of representing electronic engineering.
We disagree on the worth of the IET. That's fine.
> Ignoring clear evidence (which you denied) by saying others do it?
I don't consider the list of things you gave to be important, sorry. University course accreditation is an education thing, not a professional thing. As you're an academic, I can see that might be important to you.
> Aside from the obvious management of the professional qualifications,
Self-referential, and largely irrelevant on the ground (in my field); barring HR, I have never in 30 years been asked if I was a member of a professional body, or told that being one was a requirement for the job I was doing.
> they help promote Engineering with schools,
See my earlier point about public awareness.
> they provide support and advice for students,
Didn't hear a word from them when I was doing my degree; can't say it bothered me...
> they benchmark the quality of accredited courses
Academic courses. If universities start producing sub-par graduates, they won't get employed, and in the brave new world of academia, the university had better shape up, or they won't get applications. The down side of that is industry looking to academia for a too-focussed course, where a more thorough grounding in the fundamentals would be better.
> they maintain excellent information resources, they run communication on the web and in newsletters and magazines (that inform and discuss current issues in the profession)
So do a whole raft of other commercial ventures; nothing unique here. See also the vastly superior IEEE.
> they award grants to support various initiatives, they facilitate national and local talks of interest, they link to government where appropriate and even provide retirement homes in some cases. Im sure Ive forgot stuff as well.
Now you're getting desperate.
The professional qualifications I was referring to are the Institute qualifications, not academic qualifications.
> IET is also the least successful of the professional organisations
So you agree with me; the IET hasn't made a good job of representing electronic engineering.
We disagree on the worth of the IET. That's fine.
In reply to captain paranoia:
Mmmh. My electronics course was FPGA-orientated but I never found a job in that field. And all my electronics jobs have been either QA or mechanical jobs that morphed into multi-discipliinary mode. Funny old world. Just as well I still seem to have a place teaching the British how to use nuts and bolts.
> ... No mention of PLA or FPGA skills that we were looking for at the time, and were rapidly becoming the industry norm. So I was going to grill him on the state of his skills. In the end, he didn't turn up...
Mmmh. My electronics course was FPGA-orientated but I never found a job in that field. And all my electronics jobs have been either QA or mechanical jobs that morphed into multi-discipliinary mode. Funny old world. Just as well I still seem to have a place teaching the British how to use nuts and bolts.
In reply to captain paranoia:
I would agree electronic engineering is poorly represented by the IET. Given the IET accredit a lot of EE degrees, I am surprised they don't ask universities to have more actual electronics in their courses.
Transistors are barely touched upon in a degree. Mosfets are treated as digital switches. Transistor amplifiers, transformers etc are minimally focussed on. In a three/four year degree it is hard to cover everything when you have so many modules you have to do to be accredited.
Arduinos have done a lot for electronics, however more and more I see people at degree level not knowing what actually goes on inside this mystical circuit board. My primary fear is that as a result of the Arduino generation, schematic diagrams will be rendered useless and everyone will be drawing these Fritz things (or whatever they are called).
The argument a degree is about learning to learn is still true. However, some of the old analogue electronics is best learnt in academic environment not while you are trying to get a project finished by tomorrow and can't figure out why your transformer isn't working. I say you can learn management type skills once in a company a lot easier than you can learn analogue electronics theory.
Where is the Bell labs of the UK? The answer is probably we don't need it, we just buy ready made boards from Asia. This is really what the IET should be sorting out, promoting the UK as a place to innovate and manufacture electronics.
I would agree electronic engineering is poorly represented by the IET. Given the IET accredit a lot of EE degrees, I am surprised they don't ask universities to have more actual electronics in their courses.
Transistors are barely touched upon in a degree. Mosfets are treated as digital switches. Transistor amplifiers, transformers etc are minimally focussed on. In a three/four year degree it is hard to cover everything when you have so many modules you have to do to be accredited.
Arduinos have done a lot for electronics, however more and more I see people at degree level not knowing what actually goes on inside this mystical circuit board. My primary fear is that as a result of the Arduino generation, schematic diagrams will be rendered useless and everyone will be drawing these Fritz things (or whatever they are called).
The argument a degree is about learning to learn is still true. However, some of the old analogue electronics is best learnt in academic environment not while you are trying to get a project finished by tomorrow and can't figure out why your transformer isn't working. I say you can learn management type skills once in a company a lot easier than you can learn analogue electronics theory.
Where is the Bell labs of the UK? The answer is probably we don't need it, we just buy ready made boards from Asia. This is really what the IET should be sorting out, promoting the UK as a place to innovate and manufacture electronics.
In reply to Doad13:
As a n engineer with over thirty years behind me, I can't say it's ever influenced (as far as I know) any of my choices / options by not being a member.
I've always (rightly or wrongly) looked upon membership as being slightly elitist, which grates with my socialist leanings.
I've also found, again rightly or wrongly, that it's a bit like showing off, feeling the need to have letters after your name.
Funnily enough the best engineers I've worked with, have been the ones who whether they were chartered / members or not, never bothered with advertising the fact.
As a n engineer with over thirty years behind me, I can't say it's ever influenced (as far as I know) any of my choices / options by not being a member.
I've always (rightly or wrongly) looked upon membership as being slightly elitist, which grates with my socialist leanings.
I've also found, again rightly or wrongly, that it's a bit like showing off, feeling the need to have letters after your name.
Funnily enough the best engineers I've worked with, have been the ones who whether they were chartered / members or not, never bothered with advertising the fact.
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