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"Starter" HVSs in Yorkshire and the Peak

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 BnB 28 Apr 2015
Last Spring (my second full season on rock) I was wondering if I would ever get to grips with the VS grade. Well here we are a year later and I'm feeling more confident, maybe even "steady" on anything other than the most powerful routes (routes like Great Harry at Lawrencefield or Great Crack at Burbage leave me pretty red in the face and not always with exhaustion). With nearly 100 VS leads under my belt I'm cautiously turning my gaze to the dreaded HVS grade where routes appear to fall into two categories: increasingly powerful moves between more widely spaced protection and VS-like slab routes well above gear with concomitant ground-fall potential.

Please help me get my head in shape with some confidence-boosting routes at the grade. I climb mostly in the Peak and Yorkshire. Many thanks for your suggestions.
 1poundSOCKS 28 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:
Overhanging Groove at Almscliff is no harder than a lot of the routes at VS.
Cherry Valley Rib in Ilkley Quarry. Slightly bold, but still pretty safe, and fairly easy climbing.
Whillans Arete at Baildon Bank is now HVS, and a gift at the grade.
Post edited at 19:49
 Dave Garnett 28 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:

I was about to make the traditional recommendation of Knight's Move but I see there's a specific ticklist just for you!

http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=787
 Sink41 28 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:

Knight's Move at Burbage North. Did "Meddle" there recently which was also a bit soft.
Tody's Wall at Froggatt Edge
Lancashire Wall at Stanage Popular
 1poundSOCKS 28 Apr 2015
In reply to Sink41:

> Lancashire Wall at Stanage Popular

I gets HVS in Rockfax I think, but does it get VS in the BMC guide? Probably makes a good recommendation anyway, I suppose it's regarded as borderline. Felt VS to me and I'm short.
 Skyfall 28 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:

For a 'big' HVS tick which isn't actually that hard (one move realky) and very good gear where it counts, try Chequers Buttress at Frogatt.
 The Norris 28 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:

This was my first HVS, very pleasant it was too http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=10744
 Monk 28 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:

The hvs routes on Dover's wall at stanage are pretty gentle from memory. Agony crack has a stiff pull but is well protected and short lived. Harding's superdirect is also excellent although it could feel bold even though the gear is good. Leaning buttress direct is also steady.
 Cake 28 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:
If you are finding the powerful moves difficult, you could try some VS 5a routes to get you going with the hard moves but with close protection. I went to Almscliff this weekend and I noticed lots of VS 5as there. Rough wall on the cubic block for one was great.

Routes like Bond st and Great North Road at millstone have moves that would be on a VS at easy 5a, but you have to deal with mounting pump in the arms and place gear. In fact, that seems to be a common difference between HVS and VS: having to place gear under pressure and press on
 Skyfall 28 Apr 2015
In reply to Monk:

> The hvs routes on Dover's wall at stanage are pretty gentle from memory.

Agreed. And Lancashire Wall at the Popular end.
 climbingpixie 28 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:

Surprisingly for a Curbar route I found Avalanche Wall pretty amenable for HVS. Good gear and not too pumpy.
 1poundSOCKS 28 Apr 2015
In reply to Cake:

> I went to Almscliff this weekend and I noticed lots of VS 5as there. Rough wall on the cubic block for one was great.

Isn't the cubic block at Brimham?
 cragtyke 28 Apr 2015
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Yes, but visibility has been good in this northerly airstream.
 JimboWizbo 28 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:

Parker's Eliminate at Hobson Moor, good route, easy at HVS
 Jon Stewart 28 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:

Stanage Popular is good for friendly HVSs: Cave Arete is a nice one, Harding's Superdirect is easy but thrilling, Leaning Buttress Direct is a softy. Great place because there's so much to choose from. These don't involve run-outs, nor hard moves really - you just have to do a few moves in a row unlike VS 5a. Ones which are a bit more 'chunky' include Queersville and Congo Corner - not hard for the grade, but not soft either.

Do not to try to break into HVS at the other end of Stanage...Kelly's Overhang, Terrazza Crack, Surgeon's Saunter...great routes when you're climbing E2.
 Bulls Crack 28 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:
You'll get just as many well protected HVS's as VS's!



Post edited at 21:17
 Jon Stewart 28 Apr 2015
In reply to Cake:

I find Millstone HVSs hard compared to natural grit. A lot of people really struggle on Bond Street - watched a couple the other day, I failed on it first time I tried (when I was regularly leading HVS) and found it pretty hard when I did it last. It has crap footholds, so you really have to pull on the jams.
 TobyA 28 Apr 2015
In reply to climbingpixie:

> Surprisingly for a Curbar route I found Avalanche Wall pretty amenable for HVS. Good gear and not too pumpy.

Yeah, that was my first HVS since moving back to the UK. No push over but I survived. I thought Sorrell's Sorrow at Curbar was OK too, although you have to live squirming in wide cracks I guess.

I did Broken Crack at Froggat thinking it VS but it comes up as HVS in my logbook! Easy tick at that grade.
 TobyA 28 Apr 2015
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Funny, I remember finding it straightforward. Need to do it again sometime to see if I still agree! It is very easy to protect so quite friendly in that way.
 Cake 28 Apr 2015
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Sorry. Never been to Almscliff. I meant Brimham.
 Cake 28 Apr 2015
In reply to TobyA:

Yeah, was trying to remember Broken Crack. What about Chequers Buttress? Exposed, but easy moves and safe with two ropes.
In reply to Jon Stewart:

I find Millstone HVSs easier than most on natural grit. They're actually HVS, rather than there being a fair chance that they're secretly E2 for example. Bond Street is particularly soft - the crack is one big foothold! Obviously if you can't jam it's a nightmare, but it's probably easier for the aspirant jammer than The File.
 Jon Stewart 28 Apr 2015
In reply to TobyA:

Well it's a crack, isn't it. So it's easy if your main concern is having gear all the time and you're good at jamming, but hard if you like having footholds - or indeed holds at all - and are quite happy to move above your gear.


Removed User 28 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:

If you've got any balls at all then The Crease is a pisstake at Hvs. Parker's Eliminate is a slabby VS. 3 pebble slab is steady at HVs too if you keep your head.
 Jon Stewart 28 Apr 2015
In reply to victim of mathematics:

> I find Millstone HVSs easier than most on natural grit.

I'm quite happy to potter up the rounded breaks of Stanage without a rope until the cows come home, but while the Millstone HVSs are OK and not sandbags, I wouldn't dream of doing them on my own. I would say it's the Peak crack HVSs that are more likely to be E2 - Hen Cloud Eliminate, Mincer (E3, actually), etc. I can't think of a more bold/ face climby HVS that I reckon's a sandbag - any suggestions?
 TobyA 28 Apr 2015
In reply to Jon Stewart:
> but hard if you like having footholds -

It's a crack - it's one long foothold!

Anyway, it's ages since I did it so I might totally disagree with myself if I do it again! Having said that, I failed to really get off the ground on the bouldery start to Great Portland Street around the same time, so Bond Street felt easy in comparison.

Post edited at 23:29
 Alex the Alex 28 Apr 2015
In reply to Jon Stewart:
A couple of the slabby HVS's at Crookrise look very thin. They get P2s and P3s in my Yorkshire Grit guide

To OP- Bamford has two or three really good HVS's.
Post edited at 23:44
 Jon Stewart 28 Apr 2015
In reply to Alex the Alex:

Ah yeah, I'd forgotten about the Yorkshire grading system. Where VS 5a means it's got gear, and HVS 5a means it doesn't (except at Almscliffe for some reason - those HVSs are fine IMO).
 Tom Valentine 29 Apr 2015
In reply to cragtyke:

Stop being a snide c**t. You'll give tarn a bad name.
 Chris Murray 29 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:

Sunset slab at Froggatt. Basically a HS solo.
 ro8x 29 Apr 2015
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

I'd say top end VS for that route. Excellent gear right before the crux move.
 Simon Caldwell 29 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:

I'm not an HVS leader, recently I'm barely a VS leader. Son the HVSs I've led must by definition be OK. Here are the Yorkshire/Peak ones:

Goliath's Groove (Stanage)
Zapple Left Hand (Yarncliff)
Laughing Gas (Rylstone)
Gable Route (Burbage South)
Bachelor's Buttress (Roaches)
 Offwidth 29 Apr 2015
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

I wouldn't be recommending Whillans Arete over any route on that list Dave G linked. Must be a marmite route.
 Offwidth 29 Apr 2015
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Bold, old school thrutch or misgrades eh?
 Offwidth 29 Apr 2015
In reply to Cake:

The Bond Street crux jam is hard, 5a IMHO. The GNR layback is pretty full on as well. They are proper HVS not soft even if some VS route crux moves in harder graded areas ( like Josephine) can feel similar.
 Simon Caldwell 29 Apr 2015
In reply to Offwidth:

All misgrades in my book - if I can climb it, it can't be HVS
 Bulls Crack 29 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:

Have you dorn Altar Crack at Rivelin? If so then I wouldn't worry about getting into the HVS grade!
 jkarran 29 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:

Just pick one you like the look of with some stars next time you're out. If you've done 100 VS's and they weren't all cherry picked softies you've probably already done a few that deserve HVS.

Rylstone is good at the grade IIRC.

jk
OP BnB 29 Apr 2015
In reply to Bulls Crack:

No I haven't, but it's precisely the kind of VS that I baulk at. It looks like Great Harry without the rests!!
OP BnB 29 Apr 2015
In reply to jkarran:
Plenty of them were cherry picked in the early stages of establishing myself at the VS grade. Nowadays I'm looking for sterner stuff. Led Tyrone and a wet Great Harry at Lawrencefield yesterday. The former is a walk until the crux but from there on calls for a proper sequence of moves that reminded me of cross between Walewska and S Crack at Ilkley. And I relished the moves. So I must be getting there. For some reason my logbook shows Tyrone at HVS (VS in Rockfax). The crux is top-end VS perhaps but not HVS.

I've led a couple of HVSs at Crookrise, probably the ones Alex had in mind. And I seconded Knights Move at the weekend. Could definitely lead that. Seconded both Lancashire Wall and Leaning Buttress Direct at Stanage in the past but not sure I could lead the move off the ledge on the latter so some work to do!!
Post edited at 11:27
 jkarran 29 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:

> No I haven't, but it's precisely the kind of VS that I baulk at. It looks like Great Harry without the rests!!

I think everyone does! It's fairly traditional to have a little lie down at the bottom while you think about what you were trying to achieve
jk
 MeMeMe 29 Apr 2015
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

> Overhanging Groove at Almscliff is no harder than a lot of the routes at VS.

Yes. It's a pretty steady route just keep your bottle at the top.
If you do the VS routes at Almscliff you should be well prepared.

> Cherry Valley Rib in Ilkley Quarry. Slightly bold, but still pretty safe, and fairly easy climbing.

> Whillans Arete at Baildon Bank is now HVS, and a gift at the grade.

Not a gift I'd fancy, it's not your standard HVS (nor VS, it's in a category of it's own).


 planetmarshall 29 Apr 2015
In reply to TobyA:

> I did Broken Crack at Froggat thinking it VS but it comes up as HVS in my logbook! Easy tick at that grade.

It's VS (cue grading discussion...)

 Ramblin dave 29 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:

If you've really got no shame, claim the HVS that Peak Limestone gives to The Blaster at Harborough.
 1poundSOCKS 29 Apr 2015
In reply to MeMeMe:
> Not a gift I'd fancy, it's not your standard HVS (nor VS, it's in a category of it's own).

Some disagreement on this. I'd say, very short, the only tricky moves are well protected, the moves at the top are very easy. Graded HVS for exposure maybe, which tends to make it feel soft if you climb it with some confidence.
Post edited at 12:01
 Hat Dude 29 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:

Croton Oil on Rivelin is a good starter HVS; if you find it easy try Blizzard Ridge and if that's not too hard for you, try something different and get spanked by Roof Route.

Regular Route on Rivelin is pretty straightforward and doesn't get enough traffic
 Simon Caldwell 29 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:

> S Crack at Ilkley

If you've already done that then you've led harder than many HVSs
OP BnB 29 Apr 2015
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Only as a scared second. Cherry Valley Rib too (which was easier). But led Old Crack, Walewska, Blucher etc already
 Bulls Crack 29 Apr 2015
In reply to jkarran:

You could try the route named after me at Heptonstall Quarry - very reasonable at HVS. Senility (not named after me) next to it is fine if you're feeling strong.
 Coel Hellier 29 Apr 2015
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> I would say it's the Peak crack HVSs that are more likely to be E2 - Hen Cloud Eliminate, Mincer (E3, actually), ...

While I have considerable sympathy with this train of thought (and would add in Teck and Chequers), might you be over-doing it at tad with E3?
 AlanLittle 29 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:

I notice a tendency towards grit recommendations, and I don't think I missed the bit where you said "no limestone". I recall Crummackdale having some very pleasant HVS's. Beeston has some too.
 Offwidth 29 Apr 2015
In reply to Coel Hellier:

A bit? Those routes are top end HVS on the graded list in an area of stiff grading and would be mid E1 at most elsewhere. Masochism or Matinee might also be better contenders for more classic staffs HVS Sandbags.
 CurlyStevo 29 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:
If you like balancy criton oil is all there are bloody brilliant, gear is descent too
Post edited at 17:29
 CurlyStevo 29 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:

IF you ever get around to trying right unconquerable - don't do it before left (at E1) as right is harder I swear!
 CurlyStevo 29 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:
Also Mississipi Variant at Stanage and Pebbledash at the roaches have good gear are not pumpy and for me feel VS!
Post edited at 17:55
 Simon Caldwell 29 Apr 2015
In reply to AlanLittle:

I was tempted to recommend Crummackdale, but I only seconded HVSs there. But based on those, plus the VSs I led, it's probably I good shout!
 Bulls Crack 29 Apr 2015
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

No, good shout and a welcome change from all this tedious grit!
 TobyA 29 Apr 2015
In reply to Bulls Crack:

> You could try the route named after me at Heptonstall Quarry - very reasonable at HVS.

It's an age ago that I did but I also remember it being easy enough for the grade AND bloody great.
OP BnB 29 Apr 2015
In reply to TobyA:

Well, its my local crag and I haven't even done the VSs there!! My partners are widely dispersed.
 JJL 30 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:

It's great, isn't it?

Chequers Crack vs Chequers Buttress

Nowanda vs Avalanche

Tyrone and The Mincer

One of each of those pairs is a gift.

But you've already done your first - Great Harry is (generously) promoted!
 Sam Beaton 30 Apr 2015
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> I can't think of a more bold/ face climby HVS that I reckon's a sandbag - any suggestions?

This Cold Turkey (HVS 5a). I backed off it when happily leading a grade or two harder finding it too reachy sloping and bold. OTOH I have no idea what all the fuss is about the Mincer (I am short though)

 dr_botnik 30 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:

I'd second suggestion for croton oil and blizzard ridge at rivelin, the latter being harder and a bit less nervy with small cams to hand. These are two fantastic routes.

On limestone try froth at stoney with the direct finish for a mega route that only just tickles hvs, good gear throughout and one long pull at the end onto bomber jugs. Some of the other hvs there are a bit of work though, and if you find steep jamming hard I'd avoid minus ten crack!

Back onto grit and I'd personally recommend rugosity crack at stanage, it is hard but totally safe. Finding something hard but safe is probably your best bet. So as has been mentioned missisippi (sp?) variant also at stanage (stanage popular is chock full of classic 3* hvs's). Over at Froggatt there's chequers buttress, pedestal crack, broken crack, tody's wall (broken crack being the least classic of these). Lots has been said about millstone, but the problem there is there's not much below hvs to get warmed up on.
 Jon Stewart 30 Apr 2015
In reply to Sam Beaton:


love that route, was one of my first hvs's, now a regular pottering route. But certainly harder for the short.
 Dave Garnett 30 Apr 2015
In reply to JJL:


> Chequers Crack vs Chequers Buttress

> Nowanda vs Avalanche

> Tyrone and The Mincer

Now that would be an interesting challenge for a big day out at an 'accessible' grade!

 Lancer 30 Apr 2015
In reply to BnB:

I am in a similar position as yourself- decided to make the leap into leading HVS this year, and started 2 weeks ago!

My first lead was Queersville at Stanage, which felt quite hard, but Lancashire Wall felt easier and would be one I recommend from my incredibly-limited experience...

Also led Leaning buttress Direct, and it took me a fair while to psyche myself up to step off the ledge.
 steveriley 01 May 2015
In reply to BnB:

There's a lot to be said for going to the crag and liking the look of something - you can overthink these things. 'Liking the look of something' on its own can give you the oomph you need and you might surprise yourself. You've done 100 VSs so should have confidence in your abilities. Just offering another view
 cragtyke 01 May 2015
In reply to Tom Valentine:

> Stop being a snide c**t. You'll give tarn a bad name.

So will posting unwarranted foul and abusive language, from an ex English teacher too!
 Tom Valentine 01 May 2015
In reply to cragtyke:

Sorry, John, the "snide" was completely out of order.
 CurlyStevo 01 May 2015
In reply to SteveRi:
I agree with that. I remember liking the look of great north road when I hadn't done much HVS on grit, it wasn't just the look of it I liked either

I reckon you can probably add 2 to your normal OK but not straight forward lead grade that still gives you the odd surprise just by liking the look and style of a climb!
Post edited at 19:04

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