UKC

Hi,

Just joined this forum as it was recommended to me as a way of alerting UK climbers of a twitter account that is set up to simply steal and repost images.

The account is @boulderingUK on twitter and instagram. So is putting themselves forward as a spokesperson for UK bouldering.

I am a bumbling climber and photographer in Australia and recently started a photography project revolving around local climbers. I started posting a few of the fun shots on instagram to share with others in the sport, using #bouldering. I understand that anything online can be grabbed and shared with others

Then I noticed a couple appear on twitter, under the account of @boulderingUK. Then I noticed that every single photo I was putting up was going on their account. It was clear now they were setup to trawl instagram for #bouldering, grab every image (breaching copyright laws, so in effect stealing them) and reposting it under their twitter account, referencing the instagram account the took it from as the shooter (which is not necessarily the case.

So first contact I made was to tell them to ask first before taking photos, I would have been happy for them to share them and as it stood they were stealing them. Their response was to block me.

Then, they kept stealing photos. So I posted a statement on my instagram @fq_window saying I had chosen to stop posting all photos as they were all being stolen. Then they responded with a whole bunch of responses, all complete garbage. Which they promptly deleted. Only got a screengrab of one, before they deleted them.

In those responses, their main things were,

- > '...everything you post on to Instagram or Twitter is in the public domain therefore mine or anyone's to redistribute.'

I understand this is completely false. Copyright is always held by the photographer and permission has to be given to anyone by the photographer before they are allowed to use any photo, no matter where it is.

It is also against law in Australia and I believe it is similar in UK to use someones image commercially (remember this account is titled @BoulderingUK, so is clearly not personal) without their permission. So they have violated the privacy of those in my photos as well, and all those in the photos are furious as well.

I asked them to send me there details so these legalitites could be discussed. They ignored me.

-> They claimed they were doing me a favour by posting my images, getting me exposure.

They aren't. I am a published photographer with 10 years experience. The last place I want to have my photos seen is on a page that is 100% based on theft of peoples work. Also, having exposure doesn't put food in a photographers mouth or pay their bills.

-> They claimed they had stopped posting my photos

False, they had kept doing it, and still there are photos of mine still on their page. Have evidence to support all this.

-> they claim I am ruining their attempt at what they claim is a celebration of climbing/bouldering.

Theft, is what is ruining the celebration of bouldering is stealing images. Breaching copyright. Disrespecting boulderers in images etc etc etc.

yes, these are images people are putting on instagram. but it is still disrespectful, and breaches privacy, commercial and copyright laws (as they are here in Australia)

Even if a mate takes a photo on a phone, you like it and want to share it, just ask them first.

I want to highlight this on this forum as this page, 100% based around stealing is putting themselves forward as a online voice of UK Bouldering. All those involved in the photos, in this climbing community, photography community and myself as a photographer are furious. I have been in and around climbing for over 20 years, climbers are the most awesome and respectful group of people I know. So disappointing this is happening.

Whether it is a phone shot by mates, or a top end professional photographer. The respect afforded to them should all be the same.

I will not be sharing anymore climbing photos via social media platforms. Why would I leave my work out for people to steal, all of it, every single bit. Do you, let someone come and steal 100% of your work and let them do it as they turn around and say it is OK as they are giving you exposure?

Thanks for your time.

Bill

In reply to sbboy:

Pretty certain it was the same people who did exactly the same to pic of mine that I had put on instagram or twitter. It seemed pretty blatantly wrong but I was busy and by the look of the feed it seemed they were doing because they like climbing and are a bit thick, rather than trying to rip people off and make money of the photos of others. So I didn't do much beside tut and move on....

good summary on the excuses people (including @boulderingUK) use when stealing photos,

http://petapixel.com/2013/08/03/10-bogus-excuses-people-use-when-they-steal...

In reply to sbboy:

Here is another offender:
for e.g. https://www.flickr.com/photos/125253763@N05/sets/72157645369955971/page3/
I'm prepared to believe it's naive entheusiams, but still not on. Anyone know the chap? He doesn't respond to flickr mail.

In reply to sbboy:

Well that's me told, I thought that if you credited the photographer/owner of the image then it was all above board. I had no idea that permission needed to be expressly given. (obviously if you are trying to monetise the image, sell prints, use it for advertising or some such then I thought it would be a different matter)
I don't have a blog or website or twitter account etc so i'm not much of a photo user/sharer but it's something to remember for the future.

In reply to Dandan:


Depends on the license. CC for example doesn't require permission, but may or may not require attribution depending on the variation.

In reply to sbboy:

Can you clear up whether they were 'sharing', or retweeting from your Twitter feed onto their Twitter feed or were they down-loading the image as a jpg from Twitter then posting that jpg image in a new tweet of their own?

In reply to sbboy:

Unfortunately this is widespread.

I have had images stolen by a Twitter account promoting Glasgow before, but bizarrely they were passing off one of my Alpine images as a picture of Glencoe! I submitted a takedown notice and they obliged soon enough.

In reply to sbboy:

As others have said, you need to be clear on what's happening. Are they downloading your images and reupping them as their own or are they merely linking/retweeting them? If the second, you have no claim.


You can't claim commercial use of a photo if it's not making the person money. You can't claim commercial just because of the name of a twitter feed. It's a username, not a business name. That point is moot. Similarly you can't claim privacy concerns (lol) when you're talking about a photo you've uploaded to public internet.

In reply to Jon Read:



Bugger. I can see one of my pictures on there. So what can I do?

(I don't have a twitter account, he seems to be copying photos and uploading them as his own.)

In reply to Fredt:
Hmm, me too. I see it hasn't had many views though. I would have thought contacting flickr might make more sense? I guess the potential on flickr is he could license them, though the rest of his account seems to be genuine and unremarkable holiday pics.

The twitter guy I can't get too bothered about. He's got 70 followers and doesn't seem too likely to get many more with an unedited stream of grabs. Worth pointing out he's got NO attachment to UKbouldering the website though!

In reply to Adam Long:

Go to the Flickr album, then use the 'Report Abuse' option on the menu at bottom of page.

In reply to Fredt:

You can file a copyright infringement notice with Yahoo.

https://www.flickr.com/abuse

In reply to Fredt:

A very quick scan, I recognised at least two UK users, Psychedelic Wall by Heike, and the AE ridge with figures, and heavy mist by one of the various Jim's?

In reply to ChrisJD:

I see he has your stuff too: https://www.flickr.com/photos/125253763@N05/14505122464/in/set-721576453782...

In reply to dek:
I think all the 4 UK -albums are climbing stuff that's been published in UKC. And from simply a guess, they've been on the Top 10 weekly photos album (recognized a few).


And to be honest, creating a script that reads the Top 10 Weekly photos page source and then copies the fullsized pics (plus their descriptions) wouldn't actually be all that hard... Though I do believe, that he would need to be logged on as a user ('cause I remember from the past, that links to UKC pics don't work unless you have an account here and you're logged on).

In reply to Adam Long:

Found some of mine, recognised your shot!....but the twunts used everyone's images for his 'gallery'.
I deleted one of mine he has copied, years ago!

In reply to HeMa:

Yup, I think so too!

In reply to Adam Long:

Thanks for spotting.

Have reported via:

http://info.yahoo.com/legal/uk/yahoo/copyright/en-gb/

In reply to HeMa:



Is this him do you think?

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/profile.php?id=36491

Alan James - any action possible?

In reply to HeMa:
He seems to have reached beyond the grave! There's a shot of Pete Livesey looking very cheerful taken on 14th Jan 2010

There's also a copy of Alistair Lee's of Dave Birkett on Nowt but a Fleein' Thing in there.

In reply to ChrisJD:

Chris, what resolution JPegs do you post on Flickr?

In reply to ChrisJD:


Some web-guru stuff might be in order, to "hide" the actual file.

Eg. VSCO does this brilliantly (see http://hematula.vsco.co/media/5534898f075615cb048b456a ).

You can link to pic-pages, but can't copy the pic nor is it found easily via page-source...

Unfortunately I think it would be a major re-vamp on UKC side...

In reply to dek:

Do it via LR at full size (have unlimited storage on Flickr). But have disabled public download option.

The El Cap image is not on Flickr, been stolen from somewhere else.

In reply to HeMa:

I was more thinking about Alan banning the user from UKC !

In reply to ChrisJD:

I thought UKC digitally watermarked images? If that is still in place then it should be simple to confirm that they've been lifted without permission.

In reply to ChrisJD:

Short term fix... as said, even I could quite easily create a script that scavanged the top 10 pics every week from here... so banning one user won't really solve the situation...

which is why I won't be posting my crappy shots here....

In reply to Jon Read:
Yeh it looks like he's got a collection of his favourite shots but i'd guess with them from all over the world he's not asked for them. Some are a friends pictures who is a pro in NZ so i've forwarded your link onto him.

In reply to Jon Read:

Bloody hell, there's several of mine on there!

I actually came across him a few weeks ago when googling for a bit of research and found another one of my photographs.

I too mailed him, politely of course, but got no response either.

In reply to Jon Read:




Thanks very much for the heads up. I can only speculate as to how you became aware of this offender, but a very useful post nevertheless. Needless to say he's copied some of mine ....

In reply to planetmarshall:




Thanks for this hint. Notice duly filed ....

In reply to HeMa:

http://image.vsco.co/1/54d206614bd7f2157823/5534898f075615cb048b456a/420x42...
http://image.vsco.co/1/54d206614bd7f2157823/5534898f075615cb048b456a/800x80...


And not effective.
If you publish an image on the web, then it is visible, can be copied, stolen and republished.

In reply to ChrisJD:


They are taking jpegs off instagram. Then posting the files on their twitter account.

Not linking To the original.

In reply to Removed User:



All your claims against mine are false. Simple as that. Not going to bother explaining them again. The link I posted clearly explains it already.

Have clarified they are taking actual files off instagram and then posting the jpegs On twitter. Not linking.

In reply to Dave Williams:

Well I guess if we all file a notice we'll know whether it is worth doing.

I do wonder whether he knows if it's wrong or it's just a way of collecting pics, like a cloud scrapbook. I'm not that bothered or surprised, it only winds me up when there is a commercial element. I guess the only way to prevent it is to not post anything.

In reply to Adam Long:



....

Two weeks ago they had about 5 followers.

Is better to stop people now, before they build their image on theft.

In reply to Adam Long:

I share your scepticism. I can't say I'm at all optimistic re. a successful outcome, but I took the view that without trying we'll never know.

[Edited for spelling. Oops!]

In reply to ChrisJD:


I have contacted him via the email I have, however the account was set up in 2005, the email is a ISP (hence may have changed) and he hasn't ever posted anything, so I don't hold out much hope.

Alan

Thread completely hijacked it seems.

In reply to sbboy:

Have you 'Reported' each tweet with your image in. Option in drop-down menu the one with three ...

In reply to sbboy:

Ok then, you clearly understand what you're talking about.

I sincerely hope you and your friends get over the outrage of your image being shared in a non-commercial way.

/s

In reply to Removed User:

You are boulderingUK AICMFP!

In reply to dek: The runt has 5 of mine !

In reply to Brian:

The cheeky sod didn't choose any of mine, the nerve of this guy!!

In reply to mac fae stirling: Correction - he's taken 8

In reply to sbboy:

There's a picture of him here
https://uk.pinterest.com/ianraistrick/

In reply to Brian:


Ok ok, don't rub it in....

In reply to sbboy:

I think this is him.

https://www.facebook.com/ian.raistrick.18

his profile picture looks exactly like his pinterest photo

In reply to mac fae stirling: he' actually got 27 of mine !

In reply to chris fox:


I quite like his art. Assuming he actually painted it. (http://www.saatchiart.com/account/profile/674078)

In reply to Brian:


As it happens, I see he actually has 4 of mine, which is a bit of a relief.

What an odd thing to do tho...

In reply to Brian:

I noticed More than that! ...

Any idea if the UKC watermarking actually works, and how do we see it (I can't! )

In reply to mac fae stirling:


It's actually a very nice (and extensive) selection of pics, and they seem to have been ordered and classified somehow which sort of means he does show some care and is not just hoarding photos.

I reckon he's just using flickr as a portable folder or somesuch for photos he likes. I don't personally have a problem with it as far as that's the case and is not trying to sell them or claim ownership, and i found several of mine in a short trawl.

In reply to Mr Lopez:

Pure speculation, but given that he is a landscape artist it's possible he's collating source material.

In reply to dek:


Not sure, but they don't use Digimarc.

In reply to Mr Lopez:


But (at least in Flickr) you can do that by simply 'fave-ing' each shot you like, then clicking on your Favourites tab whenever you want to revisit them. No need to steal, whatsoever.

In reply to Fraser:

But those photos are from UKC,..

In reply to Fraser:


And then upload and make public! Flickr gives option to make completely private or share with selected people.

If he is an artist, then it kind of makes it worse - he should know better and have more respect for others peoples work..

In reply to Mr Lopez:

Mine were on both.

But they are nice collections of photos and worth a look, all 4 albums of them - oddly named UK 1,2,3,4 since they have lots of pics of NZ, Canada, the Alps etc.. but whatever.

I also notice he has a couple of albums called 'England', with lots of pics of Edinburgh and the highlands in them... now that is annoying...

In reply to Mr Lopez:


Sorry, I thought you were talking about the one referred to above as 'another offender'. I didn't see a link for the culprit who stole images from the UKC gallery - was it further up the post or has it now been removed?

In reply to Fraser:

Bit of confusion here. The guy with the Flickr account nicked the photos off UKC and then uploaded them to his Flickr account

In reply to Mr Lopez:

Gottcha, apologies for thickness.


So mac fae stirling had images nicked from his Flickr account and his UKC one too?

In reply to Fraser:

I think he had pics taken from his UKC gallery into this guy's Flickr account, and from his Twitter account into somebody else's Twitter account.

In reply to Fraser:


Dunno - the images of mine he used were on both UKC and my Flickr pages, so he had options, i don't know where he took them from. [ I don't do Twitter].

They are impressive collections - Albums 'UK 1,2,3 and 4' - you should have a look. Must have over 1200 images on them, can't fault the guy's work ethic.

In reply to Mr Lopez:
I actually think you/somebody called it correct earlier, I think the 4 albums of other people's pics are just his own personal collection of climbing/landscape pics, some of which he may turn into a painting - https://www.flickr.com/photos/125253763@N05/14361405675/in/set-721576446340...

I don't think he is acting in any kind of malicious way at all.

In reply to Removed User:




Wow.

You clearly have no respect for others.

Enjoy being a prick do you? Yes.

In reply to ChrisJD:

Yes they are reported. As I mentioned already in my post.

Like I said it means nothing to this person, twitter or instagram.

In reply to planetmarshall:

Maybe we should start uploading copies of his paintings to the UKC galleries and see if it gets his attention

In reply to Jon Read: Your Link goes to his UK 3 Album however he has 4 UK albums and I have found a load of my UKC pics in his albums, cheeky sod !

In reply to mac fae stirling:

I was thinking the same and now i have found 2 of my shots in there. Think i was more irritated when i thought i had none taken.

What is the copyright laws on him using the photograph to make an oil painting as his paintings are for sale at over $1000. (not that i expect either of my shots to be used)

In reply to chris fox:


Interesting question. I suspect it would have to be judged on a case by case basis. If I did a painting of one of the UKC top ten in a significantly different style, then I wouldn't expect it to be covered by copyright as I could claim that I was 'inspired' by the original and would probably argue fair use.

If on the other hand I did a hyperreal pixel-for-pixel copy in oil paint ( and had the skill to do so ), that might be another matter.

In reply to mac fae stirling:

He might not be acting maliciously, but that's not to say he's acting correctly. Flickr's own guidelines are explicit:
Only upload content that you have created.
Respect the copyright of others. This means don't steal photos or videos that other people have shared and pass them off as your own. (That's what favorites and galleries are for.)

So, he's clearly in breach of Flickr's Terms of Service.

In reply to sbboy:

As well as infringing the copyright on the individual images if he is systematically using the UKC voting system to find the best images and taking those ones he's quite likely infringing UKC's rights in the image database.

In reply to sbboy:



You're powerless to actually stop people infringing your copyright and as we've seen, the problem is more widespread than first thought, involving Flikr as well.

At least Flikr are prepared to take effective action. Less than 24 hours after my formal complaint, Yahoo has removed all my copied images from Ian Raistrick's Flikr albums. A modest result, but a satisfying one nevertheless.

It's a shame that Twitter and Instagram provide you with no redress or similar means of action.

Been through the Flickr User Albums UK1 to UK4. There are over a 1,900 images - I recognise so many from UKC.

If you have decent image on UKC - it will be there.

He has at least 22 of mine all lifted from UKC.

Have emailed Yahoo & Flickr again.

In reply to mac fae stirling:

Wow, someone here who isn't jumping on the sky-is-falling bandwagon. Well played. Totally agree with you.

In reply to Dave Williams:


No idea of Twitter, but you can report images in Instagram as inappropriate and I'm sure one of the reasons could be copyright...

In reply to ChrisJD:
All the ones I spotted of mine have now been removed.

Many hundreds of others peoples still there though.

... and making 'art' out of others people photographs and then trying to sell - what's that all about. The HDR of the art world!

In reply to:

It's a great accolade. This image https://www.flickr.com/photos/125253763@N05/14483663226/in/album-7215764537... got five stars on UKC, loads of positive comments, photo of the week and then finally curated by Mr Raistrick.

It would be useful to be able to search the UKC galleries for images curated by Mr Raistrick.

In reply to ChrisJD:


None of mine from a quick scan

In reply to Turdus torquatus:


The 'Finally' would be if you were unlucky enough for him to turn it into one of his ghastly paintings, lol

In reply to Robert Durran:


lol - that's you told!

In reply to Robert Durran:

None of mine from a quick scan

That's because you don't use Photoshop/Lightroom enough...

In reply to Turdus torquatus:
i see he's copyrighted it!

I see it's possible to leave comments. Perhaps a question about whether he took all the photos and why are they copyright, all rights reserved? (implying the copyright is his)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/125253763@N05/sets/72157645370000411/comments...

In reply to digby:

I particularly like this photograph of "his"

https://www.flickr.com/photos/125253763@N05/14505208184/in/album-7215764537...

In reply to sbboy:
For those wishing to get photos of theirs removed from Ian Raistrick's albums, here is the Flickr copyright infringement form -
http://info.yahoo.com/legal/uk/yahoo/copyright/en-gb/
Cheers

Paul

In reply to digby:



I have done this on both my shots, i have put "copyright of this photograph belongs to Christian Fox"

In reply to Paul Evans:



That's not the form, just Yahoo's general IP/Copyright page.
The form would useful since you can't get it without a Yahoo account.

In reply to Marek:

Yeah sorry, but the form is a web form and I believe you do have to have a Yahoo / Flickr account to access / use it, since it uses your Yahoo / Flickr ID. I couldn't post a link to the form in UKC, so the link I posted was as close as I could get. On the page I posted there is a link (middle of the page, where it says "complete this online form" which takes you directly to the form you need.

Having said that I can report that I completed my form on Sunday and the pic was removed from Ian Raistricks photo album yesterday, so quite a prompt service. It has been replaced by a form which says "this image or video has been removed due to a claim of copyright / IP infringement". There are quite a few of these springing up through his "UK albums" now.

In reply to Paul Evans:

You'd think he'd get the message that the photo owners want their images taken down and just give up on the idea? Maybe there are some who don't mind..