UKC

Abseiling on 6mm cord-safe!

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 zimpara 12 May 2015
Spent this evening testing out abbing on my 6mm tagline.

Gear:
Reverso 4
Gridlock
Prusik
Weight 68kg

15metre wall, abbing on two strands, I found it perfectly fine. With and without a Prusik, overhanging and vertical.

At ground level, the tangles are something nightmares are made of though.

Can anybody recommend me a good micro karabiner for attaching Prusik to legloop? Screw or snapgate fine.
Seen some very small quickdraw biners but dont know what they were.

...
 PPP 12 May 2015
In reply to zimpara:

Well, the smallest is definitely Edelrid Nineteen G, but it depends on what you call small.

Have you got some particular ideas why do you want to ab on 6mm rope? I suppose that the rope you used is not one of these fancy ab ropes ( http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=6992 )...

Next level: abseiling on paracord! I am sure someone did this...
OP zimpara 12 May 2015
In reply to PPP:
Thanks for th. suggestion. It's perfect.
Here's the review for any references.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/news.php?id=5530

No just mammut 6mm accessory cord And the reason why is, well I don't know really. I do think that I'd rather know 100% what i can get away with, and what's really not a good idea.
Perhaps I'm of the persuasion, that I'd rather ab off on 6mm cord than call a MRT.

And yes I've dropped lead rope off crag before, lucky for me there was a walk off to go and retrieve the bastard thing
(Always clove hitch it to yourself or something. Don't think you'll be able to stand on the tail and resist lifting your foot!)
Post edited at 23:53
 tehmarks 12 May 2015
In reply to zimpara:

> Perhaps I'm of the persuasion, that I'd rather ab off on 6mm cord than call a MRT.

Instead of abbing on it, why not try using it as a tagline and abbing on your rope? I'd certainly be far happier myself considering that option than dealing with the issues of abbing on thin cord/a big diameter mismatch.
OP zimpara 13 May 2015
In reply to tehmarks:

It is my tagline. It is multi purpose now though, which is nice.
 The Ivanator 13 May 2015
In reply to zimpara:

68kg is one heavy ab rig!
OP zimpara 13 May 2015
In reply to The Ivanator:

3000 metre spool of 6mm weighs a fair bit, and then some!!!
 tehmarks 13 May 2015
In reply to zimpara:

But surely if you're using it as a tag line, you're not actually abbing on it? Maybe we've got our vocabulary crossed; I've always used tag line to mean a pull cord setup rather than a skinny bit of string that's actually being abseiled on.
 Pete Houghton 13 May 2015
In reply to zimpara:

I was rummaging around in the archives just a couple of days ago for any chatter about people abbing on silly-thin bits of string, I have to say that the threads I found didn't really fill me with confidence to try anything narrower than my 30m glacier rope... but threads like this make me more willing to give it a go.

I went for a jog just a few days ago when I had to take my 30m glacier rope because I knew there was a 10m abseil involved... but 30m of rope still pretty much doubled the heft of my lightweight pack for the day, slowed me down considerably, and probably put me slightly more in harm's way of avalanches as the day wore on. Carrying 20m of skinnier cord would have halved the weight of rope carried and still done the job just as well, but allowed me to move that bit quicker.

Something I'll be looking into for the future, thanks for trying it out and not pegging it, zimpara!
1
 AlanLittle 13 May 2015
In reply to zimpara:

> Reverso 4
> Gridlock

I think I'd want a MicroJul and two krabs
 Dell 13 May 2015
In reply to zimpara:

Grivel plume locker, not the tiniest, but only 38g.
 SenzuBean 13 May 2015
In reply to zimpara:
If you fancy doing some more tests, might be worth trying to ab on the cord with an Italian hitch, and a Supermunter - I would be interested to know how it goes (and am not quite brave enough [yet] to try it myself).

For the micro-crab, Grivel seems to do the lightest: http://weighmyrack.com/carabiner/picture?sortoptions=wl&title=&field_weight...

It's exactly the same weight as 2x edelrid 19g crabs back to back, so may as well go for the 2x back to back 19gs (as it's more secure and stronger).

Also: The safety concerns of abbing on thin cord are not related to total strength of the material, but more so abrasion resistance. If you slipped left or right, and the cord rubbed on something and a few fibres broke - that's a much larger percentage reduction in strength compared to a few fibres from a bigger rope breaking.
Post edited at 12:32
OP zimpara 13 May 2015
In reply to Dell:
How peculiar! Finishing up on last climb of the day today- climb buddy pulls out a spare ATC on a Plume!!!

I immediately seperated the two of them whilst rummaging around on my rack for what to trade! Ended up swapping a DMM something or another.

After the deal was done ,kind buddy said he would have given me it seeing as I liked it so much. But the pikey bastard wanted to see how far I would go Haha

Plume is perfect! Thank for suggestion
Post edited at 20:22
 Billhook 13 May 2015
In reply to zimpara:

I can't think what you are saving by abbing off something the size of a bootlace. I could understand it if you were going up Half Dome or somewhere else where weight it critical. But the UK?
 Flashy 13 May 2015
In reply to Dave Perry:

It puts an obese person on a level footing with a normal person with a normal rack. Buying ultralight gear is much easier than losing weight. That's why I do it.
 Timmd 13 May 2015
In reply to zimpara:

> I immediately seperated the two of them whilst rummaging around on my rack for what to trade! Ended up swapping a DMM something or another.

> After the deal was done ,kind buddy said he would have given me it seeing as I liked it so much. But the pikey bastard wanted to see how far I would go Haha

Classic.

 illepo 14 May 2015
In reply to zimpara:

Just messing about a couple of weeks ago, we had a bomber nut and weren't high up so abbed off the nut with 5mm cord to test it out just out of curiosity.

It was rated for 300kg and held my weight fine. the only problem was controlling it. The lines are too thin for much resistance even on a ribbed belay device.
We ended up extending the belay device on a 60 sling, then attaching another locker and making a munter at my belay loop, so the lines went through the extended belay plate, then the munter. That all worked quite well.

Weight wise i'm not worried about using 5mm or 6mm cord, however durability wise in the case of abrasive surfaces and sharp edges i'd find very concerning.
 alasdair19 14 May 2015
In reply to illepo:

I abbed on I think my friends 7mm static hail line in yosemite you had to take care but we were descending with a haul bag so had to take care anyway.

wasn't impressed enough to get hold of my own one but it worked ok it did tangle a bit.
 andrewmc 14 May 2015
In reply to zimpara:

I'm not sure you should declare abseiling on 6mm cord 'safe'...

Perhaps it is safe enough for you, perhaps in some situations it is safer than the alternatives (bringing heavy rope which slows you down/not having anything to abseil), but it will not (as people have pointed out) be terribly abrasion-resistant...
 jkarran 14 May 2015
In reply to zimpara:

> No just mammut 6mm accessory cord And the reason why is, well I don't know really. I do think that I'd rather know 100% what i can get away with, and what's really not a good idea.

2mm will take your weight, not that any sane person would advocate trying to ab on it, if it so much as looked at an edge or a crystal you'd be dead.

> Perhaps I'm of the persuasion, that I'd rather ab off on 6mm cord than call a MRT.
> And yes I've dropped lead rope off crag before, lucky for me there was a walk off to go and retrieve the bastard thing

I can't imagine a scenario where you'd drop your rope but happen to still have 10's of meters of cord but there you go, probably says more about my imagination than anything else.

jk
Post edited at 12:01
 GrahamD 14 May 2015
In reply to jkarran:

2mm puts you in mind of a cheese cutter wire
 jkarran 14 May 2015
In reply to GrahamD:

> 2mm puts you in mind of a cheese cutter wire

Probably the best use for it in a toss up between abseiling or cutting cheese
jk
OP zimpara 14 May 2015
In reply to andrewmcleod:

Agreed. This was done on an indoor wall so your abseiling experience outdoors may differ. Do avoid at most costs.
In reply to zimpara:

I don't understand why? surely you're always going to have a set of normal thickness ropes when climbing?
 Brass Nipples 14 May 2015
In reply to zimpara:
> Perhaps I'm of the persuasion, that I'd rather ab off on 6mm cord than call a MRT.

Or perhaps you'll end up trying to abseil off 6mm cord and then call MRT as a result.
Post edited at 17:29
 odari 14 May 2015
In reply to PPP:

"abseiling on paracord! I am sure someone did this..."
Here I am. Done a couple canyoneering routes in Zion with that, years ago. I used it also for climbing: while soloing an aid route and self-belaying using a clove hitch (that's old school aid), I took a 3 meter fall on it. The rope worked great, so did that tiny n.4 nut. However, after that I slowly recovered from foolishness: used the rope only as tag line for a couple more climbs, then retired it. Still good for a carpet though...
 Billhook 14 May 2015
In reply to zimpara:

Another point worth noting.

Larger diameter ropes have some heat absorbing qualities. Stopping suddenly after a quick abb, probably won't be terminal as the heat will dissipate.

Doing the same on a bit of string will probably melt it.
 Sharp 15 May 2015
In reply to zimpara:

Good luck climbing back up them when the breeze picks up and carrys the ends of your string to stick behind a nice big flake while you're pulling them down.
 David Coley 15 May 2015
In reply to zimpara:

Here's some photos of several ways to add friction when abseiling on thinner ropes:

http://people.bath.ac.uk/dac33/high/10GettingBackDown.htm#addingfriction
 nufkin 15 May 2015
In reply to zimpara:

I seem to remember a film of Guy Lacelle breezily soloing some WI5 then abseiling back down on 5mm cord. The abrasion is probably less of a risk on ice. Plus I think it was dyneema.

Out of curiosity I gave it a go too; a bit slick, I thought, especially for a fatty like me, though controllable with two krabs through the belay device and the cord running through another two crossed as a brake. It was also hard to grip securely, so I figured as probably best reserved as a means of assistance on steep slopes rather than the method of preference for vertical abseils

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