UKC

Later this year my group is planning a trip to Scotland to do some mountain walks (Ben Nevis, Skye, An Teallach).
We are relatively experienced as a small group (completed the Welsh 3000s last year and have done various walks/scrambling routes for several years before that).

We would love to be able to add a Cullin route to our list but we are concerned as no one in the group has any practical experience with rope work. Ideally we would like to avoid hiring a guide.

We are aware how serious the Cullins can be and understand we may be missing out on a lot if we don't use ropes but I just wondered what routes, if any, were recommended for walkers/scramblers who didn't want to use ropes.

In the next year I suspect we will attempt to get some experience with ropes and perhaps we can come back in a few years time with more experience and take on some of the famous routes. We would not like to go into it blind however and just wondered what you guys would advise?

In reply to mrlex:

competent scramblers can summit many of the munros induividually or in short sections of the ridge unroped. take a look at the latest cicerone skye walks and scrambles guide book for route descriptions. you wouldnt manage the whole ridge without ropes unless you are confident soloing severe(ish) in walking boots).

In reply to mrlex:

You can avoid many of the sections that most people require ropes for but at the expense of significant height loss and gain to leave and regain the ridge. Depending on how confident you and your group are on exposed scrambling you may want a confidence rope (along with the knowledge to use it). The ridge can be quite confusing if you don't know it - we couldn't find a straightforward way to descend in to a dike on the summit area of Drum nam Ramh for example so did a quick abseil - only 5 metres probably but it was less stressful than feeling we had to do something to keep up with whatever schedule we'd set set ourselves.

In reply to mrlex:

Most of the summits on the Cullin ridge can be reached without ropes, and three or four of them are reachable without any real scrambling. Look at Bruach na Frìthe, Sgùrr na Banachdaich and Sgùrr nan Eag on the main ridge, and Blà Bheinn which stands a little apart but is made of the same distinctive rock and has similar features.

Good navigation is a very important skill for skye. It's easy to wander onto more serious ground. Also be aware that there are some localised areas on the ridge where iron deposits make compasses unreliable.

In reply to mrlex:
I agree with what has been written so far, but as you rightly have identified, the apparant lack of experience for your group is a concern. As has been said much of the Cuillin Ridge is accessible without the necessity to rope up provided the party is comfortable with exposed scrambing. the fact that you have needed to ask your question concerns me a bit.

Even if you are attempting easy routes, problems can arise if you go off route.

I suggest that is the important thing to consider. You say that your group has had experience in other UK mountains. Take Crib Goch for example on the Snowdon Horseshoe. Did you do that? Was everyone in your party comfortable in doing it unroped? Because that's the nearest to the sort of scrambling and exposure you are going to encounter in the Cuillins, but over much longer distances.

If you were in doubt about the party's ability and confidence on that, then think carefully, and maybe get some experience in using a confidence rope or going with a guide.

Also another very valid point that has been made is that concerning navigation. I've done the whole ridge and circuits of many of the Corries, and can confirm that navigation, even in good weather can be tricky (due to subsidiary ridges which can lead you off the main routes), and in bad visibilty it can become a nightmare where you can easily go off route and onto difficult terrain.

Even experienced climbers and scramblers can get lost, the difference being that if they get onto difficult terrain they can usually cope with it. An inexperience party may get out of their depth.
Couple such circumstances with being soaked and cold in pouring rain (very common in Skye!) and you will have the ingredients for an epic......

In reply to mrlex:

I've had a few forays into the Cuillin and I've found route finding the main difficulty. The SMC's Scrambles on Skye is highly useful. The line diagrams and descriptive text proved invaluable in preventing straying onto climbing territory. The Harveys 1:12.500 map is handy but know where you are at all times. Have a good one.

In reply to mrlex:

I’ve spent a lot of time on the Cuillin Ridge, and have done most sections of the main ridge and all the Munros on several occasions.

Routes I’d consider doing without taking a rope/climbing gear, assuming you are all confident and experienced scramblers are:

- The south ridge from Gars Bheinn to Sgurr nan Eag, taking in Sgurr Dubh Mor and descending via Coir a’ Ghrunnda. Note there is a tricky exposed down-climb to return from Sgurr Dubh Mor.
- Sgurr a’ Mhaidhaidh, Sgurr a’ Ghreadhaidh and Sgurr na Banachdich. Approach/descent via An Dorus, Sgur nan Gobhar or the tourist route up Banachdich. Those who are not strong scramblers could find getting in/out of An Dorus quite hard without a rope (I think the guides often use one here).
- Bruache na Frithe, Sgurr a’ Fionn Choire and descent along Sgurr a Basteir. Am Basteir is do-able from Bealach Bhasteir if you are happy solo downclimbing a short wall at about Diff standard to avoid the Bad Step near the summit (and reversing on return).
- Sgurr Dearg to Sgurr na Banachdich
- Tourist Route up and down Sgurr nan Gillean
- The Spur of Sgur an Fheadain

Others may beg to differ... I’ll also hasten to add that I’m a rock climber, but not a hard rock climber.

Most of these routes involve some scrambling at up to Grade 2 or 3 standard, which whilst not as hard as this might sound, is harder and more exposed than anything you’ll encounter on Crib Goch, which is only really comparable to the easiest sections of the Cuillin Ridge.

I’d take helmets as there is loose rock everywhere, only go up in clear dry weather, limit your group size to a maximum of 4-5, use the Harvey Map and take a good guidebook such as Skye Scrambles which includes topographic descriptions of the routes. Pay a lot of attention to your route-finding. Expect quite a bit of ‘off-piste’ terrain i.e. very rough scree, boulder fields, pathless mountainsides.

As others have already suggested, if you have any doubts about the confidence and ability of your group, it would be worth hiring a guide (at least for one day) to get a better feel for things with a bit of a safety net in case it turns out you are out of your depth.

Hope this helps!

Thanks to all for your responses and advice.
I am at work currently but I will take a look and will reply fully once I am home this evening.

In reply to mrlex:

Basically, I agree with what others are saying above.

The Cuillin are fantastic, and there are a number of summits which are only easy scrambling - Bruach na Frithe, Banachdich and Sgurr Dearg (without In Pinn!) for instance. Going up and back by the easiest route would mean you could see the magnificence of the Cuillin Ridge, without the necessity of climbing equipment. This assumes you are basically competent hill walkers.

Anything that involves routes along the spine of the ridge will bump it up a grade or two, even on the easiest sections, and can bring you into some pretty exposed terrain.

Navigation is, as mentioned, absolutely key. Its very confusing at times, even if the mist DOESN'T come down!


To me, this is the place to go once you've done quite a few of the classic mainland scrambles such as Crib Goch (exposed but easier), Forcan Ridge, Aonach Eagach, An Teallach, Liathach etc. I was fortunate to do all the main summits (but never the complete traverse) when I was young and climbing regularly enough to be soloing Severe happily. To me it was therefore a wonderful playground I could scramble happily across unroped (except for the traditional key sections such as the In Pinn, Bhasteir Tooth, King's Chimney). I returned many years later and found myself much slower and more cautious, and wouldn't have touched many sections without a rope, so its a little hard for me to judge how it would feel for others. However, I do think that you will get so much more out of a trip if you are confident and have the knowledge, equipment & skills to make the most of being on the ridge by tackling some of the classic linking sections of the ridge itself rather than simply going up and back down by the easiest route.

Bla Bheinn is also magnificent, and worth a trip. Its rough going but generally only easy scrambling, though I seem to remember an awkward step between the twin summits.

In reply to Mal Grey:

Very good advice from Mal. In particular

>' ... However, I do think that you will get so much more out of a trip if you are confident and have the knowledge, equipment & skills to make the most of being on the ridge by tackling some of the classic linking sections of the ridge itself rather than simply going up and back down by the easiest route'

The straight up and down easy routes as detailed in the Munros guidebook are generally brutally steep and uninspiring slogs up and down, often with a lot of horrible scree to negotiate. The true enjoyment on the Cuillin is get up there and spend time traversing along the main ridge, by doing the classic scrambing rounds of the main Coires.

In reply to CathS:

Yep totally agree with you, going up to a point on the ridge and back down would be to short-change yourself. The knowledge is out there in the guidebook and on the maps - get familiar and well-read to get most out of a short trip, then go for it.

A competent scrambler with intricate knowledge of the ridge can go from one end of the ridge to the other without getting onto graded climbing terrain - so it *can* be done, it's about knowing the ins and outs.