UKC

I'm in the market for a new windproof top. Ideally stretchy and reasonably snug fitting. Currently got a Paramo which balloons out at every opportunity obscuring the gear loops.
What is out there, and what should I avoid?

In reply to Andy Hardy:

Rab Boreas?

In reply to Reach>Talent:

Seconded. Brilliant top.

Or Rab Ventus if you don't want the hood.

In reply to PPP:

Thirded. Windproof and 'wicky', but not thermal so it's great when out on the bike too.

In reply to Andy Hardy:

Fourthed!

In reply to Andy Hardy:

Fifthed. I'm rarely without mine.

In reply to Andy Hardy:

It's not really.. wind-proof. No more so than, say, an under-armour zip-neck.

Maybe the new Rab VR Flex?

In reply to Reach>Talent:


Just be careful with the 'Rab shape' (narrow shoulders, long arms) - it might not suit you.

In reply to Andy Hardy:

I have a boreas which never really gets worn in favour of an arcteryx squamish hoody. The boreas is too thick, and doesn't go small enough in my opinion, compared to some other windshirts. Rab do some much better options I think. Also had some h2 fabric shirt from ME which was great, but a bit of an odd fit for me.

In reply to Andy Hardy:

I did look at a Rab boreas before I got the paramo, but went with the latter as it seemed to score better on the wind proofness front.

Anyone used a Montane alpine stretch?

In reply to neuromancer:

I'd agree with you. A mate has one and complains of wind whistling through. Nowhere near as windproof as my old pertex top.

In reply to Andy Hardy:

Black diamond alpine start hoody?

I also rate the Rab boreas but often carry a montane lite speed to layer over the top at the belay if its really windy.

In reply to Andy Hardy:
Have the alpine stretch. It's a great soft-shell but not windproof at all. Great jacket and actually what I would consider properly sized too. A lot of Montane stuff comes up a touch short on me in a medium but the alpine stretch is differently sized and is bang on for me.
Am considering getting another in case they go and change or drop it.

Marmot ether driclime is also a great windproof but is a bit on the warm side.

In reply to LJC:

Coincidentally for the last two years I've teamed a Boreas with the Squamish wind shirt. Boreas goes over my base layer for moderate protection when active and the Squamish seals the deal over the top on belay or walking off the summit. It's the most comfortable warm season system I've found.

To the OP, the Boreas sounds like what you're after because of its stretch and great value though you might also want to try the new Arcteryx Psiphon which is stretchier, warmer and pricier!! Great colours too.

In reply to Andy Hardy:



I have one and never seem to find conditions suited to it (except crisp winter days). Two very thin layers are so much more flexible.

In reply to RoK:

Thanks Ronan. As I'm properly nesh, I want a windproof windproof, not a nearly windproof windproof.

Looks like I'll give the montane a swerve.

In reply to Andy Hardy:

I've had the exact same problem finding the right top. So many softshells seems to sacrifice windproofing which seems to me to be the entire point of a shell tbh.
I had a lovely OR softshell which stretched beautifully and was apparently wind resistant. When worn in windy weather it was like i didn't have it on which made it pointless.
I've since tried the Rab alpine pull-on in pertex equilibrium which doesn't stretch but is cut well enough it doesn't have to and is as windproof as normal pertex.
The Matrix fabric on my Rab softshell trousers is stretchy and windproof so a jacket made from Matrix might do the job. If I didn't have too many jackets I'd be tempted to try one.

In reply to Andy Hardy:

Also, Mountain Equipment Squall seems nice, but quite pricey!

In reply to BnB:

though you might also want to try the new Arcteryx Psiphon which is stretchier, warmer and pricier!! Great colours too.

I bought one of these, it is the dogs gonads for a super light wind proof top (tested in Greenland ski mountaineering)

In reply to Andy Hardy:
I've got a Rab strata flex that I rate highly

In reply to Andy Hardy:

Just got a Mountain Hardwear chockstone jacket which is great. Nice and light so good for rock climbing on less than perfect days. Very slim fitting and good stretch.

Andy

In reply to PPP:


I cross shopped the Squall vs the Arcteryx Psiphon and it was a no contest. Squall is too tight on the sleeve (even with my puny arms) and they are too short to boot. No difference in price (surprisingly).

In reply to BnB:
How windproof is it? I've found that stretch-wovens aren't really very windproof - this of course makes them great for breathability but not true "windproofs" in the sense that a pertex top is. We were freezing our nads off at High Neb on Stanage on Sunday and I was thinking lots that my Haglöf stretch woven softshell really isn't very windproof! It's a great jacket in loads of other ways but belaying at the tops of routes I was really wishing I had just brought my pertex top instead that day (and a bigger duvet!).

In reply to TobyA:

Not totally. Needed to team it with my Squamish windshirt towards the end of a long day on the north facing Dinas Mot last week but arguably the less burly Boreas is better actually under a windshirt. The Psiphon is s lot better cut however and has a superb hood compared to the scuba hooded Boreas.

In reply to BnB:

Yeah I was surprised at people suggesting the Boreas as a windproof. I tried one on once and can't imagine that material offer much windproofing at all? Looks more like a hooded baselayer (I've got a Rab MeCo one that does look very similar) than a classic windshirt. I do remember someone at Rab telling me they are great for hot places for keeping the sun off though.

In reply to TobyA:

Don't underestimate the wind deflecting properties of the Boreas. It's a great bit of kit, comfortable and very good value. Just a bit flimsy and better suited to warmer days.

In reply to Andy Hardy:
Salomon make a stretchy windproof - their cut is good and slim fitting too.

In reply to TobyA:

Hard to beat old style Pertex, Tactile or similar for being windproof. I have an old Subzero ripstop Tactile windtop which is great and really comfy to wear but doesn't have a hood and is a bit short when wearing a harness.
I wish someone would make decent tactile wind tops (smock) or trousers like the old Troll Omni's, cheap, simple, light and effective.
I like you end up carrying an extra wind top as very few of the modern softshells or Rab VR's are that windproof, which sort of makes them pointless!

In reply to Ron Walker:

Troll are bringing out a windshirt later in the year are they not?

In reply to Andy Hardy:

I've got a Rab Boreas top and I cannot decide what it's supposed to be. It feels like a moderately windproof shirt but is not as good as my Rab Pertex windshirt which is more wind proof, much lighter and packs up much smaller. It doesn't provide much insulation either.

As a consequence I've never really worn it if anyone is interested in buying it.

In reply to Andy Hardy:

I wear a Boreas when active, and layer up with a Driclime or light Primaloft jacket when I need additional windproofing. I tried the Patagonia Houdini, but it is not breathable enough for me.

In reply to PPP:


Yeah, reasonably happy with mine so far. Seems to be completely windproof - water resistance is about the best you can expect in a 'breathable' - it certainly kept the water out when getting hit by waves belaying on Flimston slab. Persistent rain starts to get through after a while though.

It also seems to stand up to being scraped against the rock without any damage. I'm not sure there's any great benefit to the diagonal zip, but no great disadvantage either. The hood works best with a helmet - it's a bit too baggy without one, so I'd probably only go for it if you normally wear a helmet.

In reply to Andy Hardy:

Take a sewing machine to your Paramo and slim it down. Easy enough..

A Rab stretch Neo perhaps?

In reply to Andy Hardy:

Patagonia Levitation Hoody... boof!!

In reply to timmeehhhh:


How does that work when cragging? I just want to put a windproof layer on, once, under my harness then not have to *rse about adding or subtracting layers later on.

In reply to Andy Hardy:


Clothing, despite the marketing bollocks, does not have magical properties. At times you will either be too warm or too chilly unless you are prepared to put on/take off layers. I carry an HH pertex windproof top (brilliant) which scrunches up tiny and can be put down the back of my clothing (by my partner) with a sleeve poking out of my collar for easy retrieval on a belay. A warmer layer such as primaloft could be carried in a small stuff sack at the back of your harness.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Most times when I go cragging on windy days I put the paramo over a thin fleece and I'm good to go, with my only problem being the tendency of said windproof to pull out of the harness, forming an annoying balloon over the gear loops. I'm thinking the 'get the sewing machine out' suggestion upthread is the way forward.

In reply to BnB:


Wow, you must have some big arms! They're slim sleeves but not exactly uber tight. Mine (large) also covers my bum so not exactly short (I'm 6'). Just goes to show how different brands/jackets for different people! Not tested it in harsh conditions yet, looks pretty flair though so I'm already sold..........

(£80 @ the Outdoor Shop if anyone is interested...)

In reply to angry pirate:

That's pretty much it. It's cost me a fair amount of money to realise that "stretchy" and "windproof" can't be had in the same jacket. I have now 3 "softshells" that are technical pub clothing and can't see any other use for them in the hills. If they are not warm or windproof, what's the point of them?

In reply to Andy Hardy:

I think Robert has replied spot on. It seems like you're looking for a magical garment that doesn't exist: windproof but not too warm for when you're active but not too cold when you're passive. Unless you amend your clothing, you'll have to change your activity or adjust your intensity level.

Or have I misunderstood your complaint?

In reply to Mr Lopez:

Looking at all the replies above, it seems there is just so much kit that actually hasn't got a purpose or people buy it thinking it is something else?

I'll always go for my RAB VR smock. I find it is windproof enough and if it is that windy, then a lightweight waterproof over the top sorts it. I've never needed a stretchy top until now, middle age and an expanding belly and all that!

In reply to galpinos:


Doesn't seem to make me climb better though

In reply to Mr Lopez:


You need to get one with an active thermal management system and 4-way stretch.

In reply to Fraser:



Yes. What I want is something as windproof as the paramo which stays tucked in when climbing. I added "stretchy" to the OP because I assumed it would help to stay put.

In reply to Andy Hardy:

The alternative to stretch is to find something that has a well-designed armscye and sleeve, so that it doesn't pull out of the harness when you raise your arms over your head. Body stretch is still likely to cause some lifting, though...

Stretch fabrics tend to have less dense weaves, and they open up when stretched, so they're less wind resistant. Stretch side panels can help with the arm raise problem.

In reply to captain paranoia:


Yes, and this comes down to body shape and differing designs and dimension between brands.

I got one of the first generation Rab Boreas and used it in Peru. It's a useful thing for trekking, I think, and maybe multi pitch climbing, but too much of a compromise to take on many trips. Plus it's got the dodgy Rab fit of narrow shoulders and billowy waist. It's more wind resistant than a fleece, but not as warm, and more breathable and comfortable than a shell or membrane-softshell.

Pertex is not completely windproof, not should it be. Anything that was 100% windproof, such as a 'waterproof' is not going to be breathable and thus negates the point of using not-a-shell. As others have said, some understanding and acceptance of the compromises is needed.

I find VR-type garments (Driclime etc) too binding and warm for lots of stuff. I go much better with an Arcterxy Squamish over a base layer or thin fleece. It fits me well, doesn't bind and is slightly stretchy. Maybe too flimsy for regular rock thrutching though.

In reply to Andy Hardy:

How about a Lowe Alpine Caldera Jacket:

http://lowealpine.com/caldera-jacket

I picked one up in my local TKMaax for £40 and been very impressed. No idea what the usual price might be.

Very much more windproof than a Rab Boreas(I have one and think its a great top but not that windproof to be honest, sometimes double it up with a Montane Featherlight Pertex which is a good combination).

The Caldera certainly has a good bit of stretch, fairly 'athletic' fit, nearly as good as Pertex against the wind.

In reply to Damo:

There aren't many garments I rate highly but the rab vr alpine pull on is one, but not for what you want, its not stretchy and wouldn't stand up to repeated abrasions.
Why do you want an all in one? Layering is usually best for most things, perhaps a thin fleece top and a windproof shirt over it?

In reply to BnB:

At least the ladies will be impressed in te pub afterwards, unless you're wearing your brynje mesh top.....

In reply to galpinos:

I save the mesh for family parties

In reply to Andy Hardy:

It works really well for that. One or two base layers + Boreas is warm and stretchy enough when leading hard pitches. Adding a light Primaloft jacket keeps the chill of when stationary. Occasionally I wear both layers when active, which also works fine. I have also used the Boreas as a baselayer on really hot & sunny multipitch climbs. That worked well for me.

In reply to BnB:

Lucky Grandma.

In reply to nathan79:


Troll have had MY windshirt for the past few years. They took it apart to make a template and promised me a new one - that was several years ago!!!!