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The latest guidebook to Eastern Grit has just been published by Rockfax. Long-time fan of the area Andy Birtwistle takes a look at this latest offering.Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=7347
In reply to charvey:
Well there are far more routes and a crags covered for a start.
New crags, some of which got a cursory mention in the 2006 edition - Agden, Carl Wark, Over Owler Tor, Robin Hood's Stride, Turningstone Edge, Duke's Quarry, Shining Cliff
But the main additions are the coverage on the main crags like Stanage - 938 routes on 96 pages in the 2006 edition, 1337 routes on 140 pages in this one - so 400 more routes on Stanage alone. Overall there are around 1100 more routes in this book.
Obviously everything has been reviewed as well so that changes and grade adjustments have been made throughout the book. And we have a completely new set of maps, action photos, a complete index of all the routes (left out of the last guide), 28 fun tick lists and a much extended graded list.
Alan
> So aside from the photos what's actually changed since the previous guide?
Well there are far more routes and a crags covered for a start.
New crags, some of which got a cursory mention in the 2006 edition - Agden, Carl Wark, Over Owler Tor, Robin Hood's Stride, Turningstone Edge, Duke's Quarry, Shining Cliff
But the main additions are the coverage on the main crags like Stanage - 938 routes on 96 pages in the 2006 edition, 1337 routes on 140 pages in this one - so 400 more routes on Stanage alone. Overall there are around 1100 more routes in this book.
Obviously everything has been reviewed as well so that changes and grade adjustments have been made throughout the book. And we have a completely new set of maps, action photos, a complete index of all the routes (left out of the last guide), 28 fun tick lists and a much extended graded list.
Alan
In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:
Its really more like a definitive guide for Stanage now.
I think its naive of Andy to say a compromise has been reached with the definitives ...some in the definitive teams might feel that way but others most certainly don't (albeit with most strongest concerns being related to areas in Western Grit).
The topo photos are the best I've ever seen. I'm glad more traverses and tick lists have gone in. The regrades are numerous (my checking found a double side of A4 in three columns at the smallest size notes my eyesight can deal with ...about 500 in all (the changes on easier routes - as ever for all local grit guidebooks - will be detailed in our Offwidth site when we get round to it ... but I might stick up the harder famous routes that changed, on a UKC post I get time).
Too many shit routes have gone in that detract from such a publication (many lame, some dodgy and or overgrown) and some areas included are a bit sad for a definitive (eg Bamford, Xmas routes) and a few gems from the definitives were overlooked again... Rivelin Quarries most obviously but things like the Alport Stone (better than Tegness Pinnacle?). I think not using split grades for a lot of highballs was a mistake: Canoe isnt a f5+ unless a star is cruising it as part of a circuit and needs its E2 grade.
Its really more like a definitive guide for Stanage now.
I think its naive of Andy to say a compromise has been reached with the definitives ...some in the definitive teams might feel that way but others most certainly don't (albeit with most strongest concerns being related to areas in Western Grit).
The topo photos are the best I've ever seen. I'm glad more traverses and tick lists have gone in. The regrades are numerous (my checking found a double side of A4 in three columns at the smallest size notes my eyesight can deal with ...about 500 in all (the changes on easier routes - as ever for all local grit guidebooks - will be detailed in our Offwidth site when we get round to it ... but I might stick up the harder famous routes that changed, on a UKC post I get time).
Too many shit routes have gone in that detract from such a publication (many lame, some dodgy and or overgrown) and some areas included are a bit sad for a definitive (eg Bamford, Xmas routes) and a few gems from the definitives were overlooked again... Rivelin Quarries most obviously but things like the Alport Stone (better than Tegness Pinnacle?). I think not using split grades for a lot of highballs was a mistake: Canoe isnt a f5+ unless a star is cruising it as part of a circuit and needs its E2 grade.
3
In reply to UKC Gear:
I've had a good flick through a few times now and I have to say it's a beautiful thing!
It's a bit like taking a phonebook to the crag though - I wonder if Jeff Capes could tear one in 2?
I've had a good flick through a few times now and I have to say it's a beautiful thing!
It's a bit like taking a phonebook to the crag though - I wonder if Jeff Capes could tear one in 2?
In reply to UKC Gear:
Is it me or are the routes on the Tippler buttress mixed up??
In the guide book the topo for The Tippler is following the line of Paranoid and vice versa?
Is it me or are the routes on the Tippler buttress mixed up??
In the guide book the topo for The Tippler is following the line of Paranoid and vice versa?
1
In reply to Haighy:
No it isn't you - sadly it is an error.
Top-tip: always read the description before you set off on a route!
Chris
No it isn't you - sadly it is an error.
Top-tip: always read the description before you set off on a route!
Chris
1
In reply to Chris Craggs:
Such a difference that we are talking softest E6 tick ever or only Darwin Award potential? Still, really annoying as an editor.
There are a few other topo lines that seem wrong (or different from the definitive and intentionally so) might be wise to post a request to and try and collect them together on a FAQ or something. Quite a few old topo errors have been sorted... thanks for that.
Such a difference that we are talking softest E6 tick ever or only Darwin Award potential? Still, really annoying as an editor.
There are a few other topo lines that seem wrong (or different from the definitive and intentionally so) might be wise to post a request to and try and collect them together on a FAQ or something. Quite a few old topo errors have been sorted... thanks for that.
In reply to UKC Gear:
Cheers for the great review Andy, 1300 viewings in 12 hours is some going!
Chris
Cheers for the great review Andy, 1300 viewings in 12 hours is some going!
Chris
In reply to UKC Gear:
I wrote this review three weeks ago
David Price is a climber and guide book collector with a library of over 3500 books
GUIDE BOOK REVIEW 2015 EASTERN GRIT
The 2015 Rockfax Eastern Grit Edited by Chris Crags has just been released. If Lancashire Rock published in 1999 got the nick name “The brick” The new Eastern grit should be called the “half brick” It’s huge! The third edition is bigger than anything previously published by the undisputed king of climbing guide books. Eastern Grit now has 560 pages compared to editions 2006 with 384 pages and the original 288 pages first printed in 2001. But don’t think you will be blown away with hundreds of new routes at every crag. There are several pages of adverts and the larger topos take up extra space.
There are seven new crags, Agden Rocher, Carl Wark, Over Owler Tor, Robin Hood Stride, Turningstone Edge, Dukes Quarry and Shining Cliff. The additions offer a total of 178 routes.
I not sure how much traffic these lesser known venues will get, from experience the big names always a guaranteed a good day on rock. The new venues with the exception of Carl Wark are all a short walk in of ten minutes or under. I can’t for the life of me understand the inclusion of Dukes Quarry as just one page and two routes are dedicated to this “pretty grotty” disused quarry.
So where has the extra bulk come from in the new guide? Froggatt has 179 routes compared to 150 in 2006 however 63 routes are E4 and above. Stanage scored 938 routes in 2006 but now has 1335 routes, in comparison to the BMC Stanage definitive guide that has approximately 1640 inclusions but subtract 300 boulder problems both guide books have virtually the same number 1337 Rockfax and 1340 the definitive collection.
The crag table has been renamed destination planner. At a glance a comparison can be made of all the venues, walk in, aspect and grades can be compared at a in an instant. There are plenty of tick lists and info on other Rockfax products as well as the UKC web site. It’s all there and the guide is also available as a phone app.
There are some exceptional photographs in the 2006 guide. P. 234 Simon Jacques and P354 Chris Crags. In 2015 the guide contains a mixture of average to exceptional images. The increase in topo size is superb and makes identifying features and routes a less intense and more pleasant experience, The large topos are generally of great quality however I have found two which are not sharp P.252 which could be explained as it and the previous two page topos are cropped from one image and P.447 which is half a two page spread looks to be suffering from a narrow depth of field. These minor shortcomings are soon forgotten when you consider the overall quality and clarity the topos, they are quite exceptional. All but two of the topos are new and, many are captured from a more sympathetic angle than in the 2006 edition. Mike Hutton’s action shots stand out as exceptional; many captured using a large lens giving narrow depth of field. This works well and after viewing only a few of mikes images I could identify his work without reading the caption, recognition of his style and the quality of his craft! His superb images on pages 327,332, 274, 197 and pick of the bunch Sam Hamer on Flight of Ideas on page 197 a visual treat. Dan Arkle also thrills with his image on pages 296/297. The remainder are often uninspiring and considering the huge number of DSLRs on the crags this comes as a surprise. I think the publisher should dig deeper and support our talented photographers. Spend more money on photography Rockfax ! P.79 is out of focus. P476 has a burnt out sky and is uninspiring.
To consider for a moment the BMC guide Over the Moors the images in that collection simply blow you away. The cover and pages P.89 P275 P227 P339 yield no surprises. A glance at the caption reveals the photographer as Mr Hutton. And a mind blowing image of Neil Foster on Hard Times E3 6a at Kinder Downfall by Martin Kocsis P28 and 29. I do feel the BMC guides have a less commercial feel with a more visually pleasing appearance.
If I were to own only a half dozen guide books and I don’t I have over a thousand the 2006 or 2015 Eastern grit would definitely be one of them. There is a huge amount of climbing at all grades on some of the best gritstone on the planet. I would question a purchase of two or three definitves when this guide covers so much rock for such a small investment. If you have the previous edition the new guide is a not an essential purchase however I have ten copies for sale at £22.95 plus p+p RRP £29.95 and at that price I think it’s tempting. If you don’t own a version of Eastern grit this is a must have investment! At £22.95 that’s 88 pence per crag and there is no doubt that Rockfax have a winning formula!
My Rating
Value 8.5/10 or 10/10 at £22.95
The climbs 9.9/10
Photography 7/10
Mike Hutton’s photography 9.8/10
Other information 10/10
Topos 9.5/10
Design 9/10
Ease of use 9.5/10 it’s just big!
Overall impression 9/10
I wrote this review three weeks ago
David Price is a climber and guide book collector with a library of over 3500 books
GUIDE BOOK REVIEW 2015 EASTERN GRIT
The 2015 Rockfax Eastern Grit Edited by Chris Crags has just been released. If Lancashire Rock published in 1999 got the nick name “The brick” The new Eastern grit should be called the “half brick” It’s huge! The third edition is bigger than anything previously published by the undisputed king of climbing guide books. Eastern Grit now has 560 pages compared to editions 2006 with 384 pages and the original 288 pages first printed in 2001. But don’t think you will be blown away with hundreds of new routes at every crag. There are several pages of adverts and the larger topos take up extra space.
There are seven new crags, Agden Rocher, Carl Wark, Over Owler Tor, Robin Hood Stride, Turningstone Edge, Dukes Quarry and Shining Cliff. The additions offer a total of 178 routes.
I not sure how much traffic these lesser known venues will get, from experience the big names always a guaranteed a good day on rock. The new venues with the exception of Carl Wark are all a short walk in of ten minutes or under. I can’t for the life of me understand the inclusion of Dukes Quarry as just one page and two routes are dedicated to this “pretty grotty” disused quarry.
So where has the extra bulk come from in the new guide? Froggatt has 179 routes compared to 150 in 2006 however 63 routes are E4 and above. Stanage scored 938 routes in 2006 but now has 1335 routes, in comparison to the BMC Stanage definitive guide that has approximately 1640 inclusions but subtract 300 boulder problems both guide books have virtually the same number 1337 Rockfax and 1340 the definitive collection.
The crag table has been renamed destination planner. At a glance a comparison can be made of all the venues, walk in, aspect and grades can be compared at a in an instant. There are plenty of tick lists and info on other Rockfax products as well as the UKC web site. It’s all there and the guide is also available as a phone app.
There are some exceptional photographs in the 2006 guide. P. 234 Simon Jacques and P354 Chris Crags. In 2015 the guide contains a mixture of average to exceptional images. The increase in topo size is superb and makes identifying features and routes a less intense and more pleasant experience, The large topos are generally of great quality however I have found two which are not sharp P.252 which could be explained as it and the previous two page topos are cropped from one image and P.447 which is half a two page spread looks to be suffering from a narrow depth of field. These minor shortcomings are soon forgotten when you consider the overall quality and clarity the topos, they are quite exceptional. All but two of the topos are new and, many are captured from a more sympathetic angle than in the 2006 edition. Mike Hutton’s action shots stand out as exceptional; many captured using a large lens giving narrow depth of field. This works well and after viewing only a few of mikes images I could identify his work without reading the caption, recognition of his style and the quality of his craft! His superb images on pages 327,332, 274, 197 and pick of the bunch Sam Hamer on Flight of Ideas on page 197 a visual treat. Dan Arkle also thrills with his image on pages 296/297. The remainder are often uninspiring and considering the huge number of DSLRs on the crags this comes as a surprise. I think the publisher should dig deeper and support our talented photographers. Spend more money on photography Rockfax ! P.79 is out of focus. P476 has a burnt out sky and is uninspiring.
To consider for a moment the BMC guide Over the Moors the images in that collection simply blow you away. The cover and pages P.89 P275 P227 P339 yield no surprises. A glance at the caption reveals the photographer as Mr Hutton. And a mind blowing image of Neil Foster on Hard Times E3 6a at Kinder Downfall by Martin Kocsis P28 and 29. I do feel the BMC guides have a less commercial feel with a more visually pleasing appearance.
If I were to own only a half dozen guide books and I don’t I have over a thousand the 2006 or 2015 Eastern grit would definitely be one of them. There is a huge amount of climbing at all grades on some of the best gritstone on the planet. I would question a purchase of two or three definitves when this guide covers so much rock for such a small investment. If you have the previous edition the new guide is a not an essential purchase however I have ten copies for sale at £22.95 plus p+p RRP £29.95 and at that price I think it’s tempting. If you don’t own a version of Eastern grit this is a must have investment! At £22.95 that’s 88 pence per crag and there is no doubt that Rockfax have a winning formula!
My Rating
Value 8.5/10 or 10/10 at £22.95
The climbs 9.9/10
Photography 7/10
Mike Hutton’s photography 9.8/10
Other information 10/10
Topos 9.5/10
Design 9/10
Ease of use 9.5/10 it’s just big!
Overall impression 9/10
In reply to bantamdaattack
I have to stick up for Dukes Quarrty the two routes included are amazing and the venue made it into much smaller selective guides in the past (including Steve Ashtons 100 best gritstone...which covered the whole Peak and Yorkshire).
I'd be interested on more details on the stats on Stanage....they look odd as quite a few really minor crags (especially on the southern end) never made the Rockfax EG guide and there don't seem to be enough newly listed routes to make up the difference. I am amazed that more people haven't noticed that its pretty much definitive at Stanage now, on anything but obscurities (where like Froggat and OtM I think some should really have been on the web as supplements). Given the fuss some made when PGE came on the scene, about the level of coverage, what has happened to those voices now?
I was going to say something about the climbing shots but it was too complex and Mike is a pal ... I'd agree with the general line of your views but wouldnt be as strong... the poorer shots are very much in a minority in my view.
Finally, is there a website for your reviews?
Post edited at 01:12
In reply to Offwidth:
Hi
On the stats I just looked through the three Eastern grit editions and counted them. I an not a writer but I spent half a day on the review. I just like anything to do with guide books. Mike has seen this review, he’s not a mate but I say what I say as his work is excellent. I am an ex professional photographer so qualified to judge the images. I smiled as you picked up on the out of focus topo. Northern limestone has many awful out of focus topos. One of the reasons I binned photography as often customers don’t value the work, Rockfax can afford to pay top money for top images from top photographers. The result would be a book that looks outstanding rather than a book with many very average images begged borrowed but not stolen ! I note well that the new Eastern Grit has virtually as many Stanage routes as the definitive. So why you would purchase the BMC guide I am not sure eh !
I don’t have a web site but I am working on a new business which will have one.
Hey Andy I just love books !
Hi
On the stats I just looked through the three Eastern grit editions and counted them. I an not a writer but I spent half a day on the review. I just like anything to do with guide books. Mike has seen this review, he’s not a mate but I say what I say as his work is excellent. I am an ex professional photographer so qualified to judge the images. I smiled as you picked up on the out of focus topo. Northern limestone has many awful out of focus topos. One of the reasons I binned photography as often customers don’t value the work, Rockfax can afford to pay top money for top images from top photographers. The result would be a book that looks outstanding rather than a book with many very average images begged borrowed but not stolen ! I note well that the new Eastern Grit has virtually as many Stanage routes as the definitive. So why you would purchase the BMC guide I am not sure eh !
I don’t have a web site but I am working on a new business which will have one.
Hey Andy I just love books !
Post edited at 11:21
In reply to bantamdave:
Just a word on the photos and photographers:
We work with a number of photographers and have good relationships them. As far as I am aware, Mike Hutton, Adam Long and the other photographers are perfectly happy with the arrangement and they get a decent payment as well. We have paid for every third party photo we used in the book, as we do for all our books.
The choice of images is not quite as great as you suggest. When we ask round for photos, which we do with all books using the UKC Photos database to contact new photographers on many occasions, we almost invariably get photos of the same crags. As soon as we stray from the more popular crags, the choice dries up rather dramatically.
That is no excuse for an out of focus image though but in this case I suspect your assessment is based on a couple of softish shots rather than many out of focus images. Something to work on for sure.
Alan
Just a word on the photos and photographers:
We work with a number of photographers and have good relationships them. As far as I am aware, Mike Hutton, Adam Long and the other photographers are perfectly happy with the arrangement and they get a decent payment as well. We have paid for every third party photo we used in the book, as we do for all our books.
The choice of images is not quite as great as you suggest. When we ask round for photos, which we do with all books using the UKC Photos database to contact new photographers on many occasions, we almost invariably get photos of the same crags. As soon as we stray from the more popular crags, the choice dries up rather dramatically.
That is no excuse for an out of focus image though but in this case I suspect your assessment is based on a couple of softish shots rather than many out of focus images. Something to work on for sure.
Alan
In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:
Hi Mr James
Thanks for your comments. I think very fair. In my review I simply can’t say Rockfax are amazing no holds barred it needs be subjective. I was accused on FB of being paid by Rockfax to write the review. I defended that comment even if I don’t have to. In balance I think my review compliments Rockfax. I do call them the "King Of Guide Books" I just am a very visual person and I think you lost an opportunity to stun rather than just please. And questioned the need for the definitive guides. Perhaps I should come out of retirement, alas no need with Mr Hutton about !
I am by the way available to review your next book for a small fee of course.
Hi Mr James
Thanks for your comments. I think very fair. In my review I simply can’t say Rockfax are amazing no holds barred it needs be subjective. I was accused on FB of being paid by Rockfax to write the review. I defended that comment even if I don’t have to. In balance I think my review compliments Rockfax. I do call them the "King Of Guide Books" I just am a very visual person and I think you lost an opportunity to stun rather than just please. And questioned the need for the definitive guides. Perhaps I should come out of retirement, alas no need with Mr Hutton about !
I am by the way available to review your next book for a small fee of course.
In reply to bantamdave:
You might buy Stanage because you buy all the guides and/or because when climbing there you want one smaller book with all the routes and bouldering included, and/or because it is more definitive on the bouldering (if not so much on routes) and/or because you like the way it is written, the look of it, the nice features.
Look forward to the website.
Why did you have a beef with Duke's Quarry incidently... reason I ask is Great Crack is my most memorable eastern edges VS lead (the grade it should be when dryish at the base).
You might buy Stanage because you buy all the guides and/or because when climbing there you want one smaller book with all the routes and bouldering included, and/or because it is more definitive on the bouldering (if not so much on routes) and/or because you like the way it is written, the look of it, the nice features.
Look forward to the website.
Why did you have a beef with Duke's Quarry incidently... reason I ask is Great Crack is my most memorable eastern edges VS lead (the grade it should be when dryish at the base).
In reply to UKC Gear:
Haven't seen it yet so just wondering, have they done that thing of printing text directly over photos which has crept in to recent Rockfax guides? I'm sure it looks very slick from a presentation point of view but it can be a bugger to actually read it sometimes, especially as one advances through middle age and the ability to read without glasses declines.
Haven't seen it yet so just wondering, have they done that thing of printing text directly over photos which has crept in to recent Rockfax guides? I'm sure it looks very slick from a presentation point of view but it can be a bugger to actually read it sometimes, especially as one advances through middle age and the ability to read without glasses declines.
2
In reply to pec:
We did that in the books from 2008 Lofoten until Mallorca in 2011. Since then all publications have used more opaque white boxes for text pretty consistently in order to facilitate reading. I refuse to comment on whether or not this has any connection with the middle-age eyes of any of the Rockfax staff.
Alan
> Haven't seen it yet so just wondering, have they done that thing of printing text directly over photos which has crept in to recent Rockfax guides? I'm sure it looks very slick from a presentation point of view but it can be a bugger to actually read it sometimes, especially as one advances through middle age and the ability to read without glasses declines.
We did that in the books from 2008 Lofoten until Mallorca in 2011. Since then all publications have used more opaque white boxes for text pretty consistently in order to facilitate reading. I refuse to comment on whether or not this has any connection with the middle-age eyes of any of the Rockfax staff.
Alan
4
In reply to bantamdave:
Thanks for the in depth review and your "ratings" - I think I can live with 9 out of 10!
Chris
>
> My Rating
> My Rating
> Value 8.5/10 or 10/10 at £22.95
> The climbs 9.9/10
> Photography 7/10
> Mike Hutton’s photography 9.8/10
> Other information 10/10
> Topos 9.5/10
> Design 9/10
> Ease of use 9.5/10 it’s just big!
> Overall impression 9/10
Thanks for the in depth review and your "ratings" - I think I can live with 9 out of 10!
Chris
1
In reply to UKC Gear:
Very interesting to read! I wonder how much cash you can make out of writing a climber book..
Very interesting to read! I wonder how much cash you can make out of writing a climber book..
In reply to mountmarcus:
I think it must be one of the most inefficient ways to make 'cash' I can think of. Its a labour of love even as a commercial project.
I think it must be one of the most inefficient ways to make 'cash' I can think of. Its a labour of love even as a commercial project.
Post edited at 12:24
3
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