UKC

At the mini works on Monday I dropped off of a problem and half landed on a small child who was running around beneath. He looked about 2-3 years old. The poor chap cried and ran off to his parents who were out of sight round the corner. I am pretty certain he was ok but it was a close call.

I later spoke to one of the staff saying there had been a near miss that she might be interested in. I also said it might be an idea to barrier off an area where the really little ones with no climbing agenda could be excluded from, restricting their access to the play and slide area where falling people will generally be much lighter etc. The current policy of having a sign on the wall saying children must be kept under control doesn't appear to be too effective judging by the way they race around all over the place.

I can't help think it's a serious accident waiting to happen. Anyone else got views?

In reply to Mutl3y:
I'd have a word with the wall staff if you see young kids running around at the wall - regardless of whether you nearly squash them or not. At least they've got the authority to kick feckless parents out if they don't get their kids under control!
G.

In reply to Mutl3y:

I agree. I hurt myself (not seriously) avoiding landing on a small child who shouldn't have been wandering.

I blame the parents. I don't mind kids climbing but when they are being left to wander and not being looked after properly it annoys me.

In reply to Mutl3y:

I just usually stop climbing if I see that the situation becomes unbearable.

Having a buddy who spots you helps a lot. Not even for spotting reasons, but for making sure that there's no one running below you.

In reply to Mutl3y:

1) If you knew there were children running around unsupervised then you shouldn't have been bouldering. This used to be a big problem at Undercover Rock in Bristol.
2) If the child entered the bouldering area after you started climbing and you were not aware of its presence, then the parent / supervisor should be held responsible.

In reply to Mutl3y:

I've had several incidents over the last year at my local bouldering wall of children AND adults walking/running directly beneath me. On one occasion, I was topping out a (for me) hard problem. I thought I was going to lob so glanced down to spot a landing and was horrified to see a middle aged woman walking directly beneath me.... luckily I made the move

In reply to Mutl3y:

The MiniWorks is a kids wall, I wouldnt climb to the point of failure in there without a spotter.

I've also let my kid run around in there when it has been quiet. I think its a tough call - you create a wall for small kids, what are they gonna do with the 80% of their time they aren't climbing? Colour in pictures?

The Rocktots group they run in there is good, because it does give the kids focus, and segregates climbers from tots - but not so much now they made the new slide at the other end.....ho hum.

In reply to Mutl3y:

Never had a problem with kids, but I often see adults (and by the looks of it, relatively experienced climbers) meandering about in the danger zone. Often it's when they're standing back to get out of the way of/ admire one of their mates on a nearby problem!

With kids, I would tend to just speak to them as adults and suggest they keep out of the way. Then have a look for the parents if that doesn't work. Wall staff have enough to do and I doubt they can keep an eye on everyone.

In reply to Mutl3y:

Nearly fell on someone tonight, they were laying down in front of a problem and had been for some time. I said "Excuse me, I'm just going to give this a go." as I walked in front. Hopped on, got close to the top, started to peel off a hold, looked behind me and he was still laying there. Jumped off and narrowly missed his leg, landing awkwardly myself.

On reflection I really should have checked he'd moved after my "Excuse me", rather than assuming he'd stand up/shift back.

In reply to Mutl3y:

you want to scream "from the top rope", then take them out like Randy Savage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ypgpoP02JM&t=0m5s

that'll learn 'em

In reply to Mutl3y:

Whilst bouldering I accidentally "grazed" the head of a small child as my foot came away from the wall. The incident however got me through the crux and I still maintain to this day that her head was actually 'in' and not considered combined tactics.

In reply to jeffsheard:

I agree with Jeff, that at the mini works you should not be falling without being sure of what is beneath you. Definitely nothing uncontrolled. If you need to start before midday, you could go to the mini works to warm up, climbing up and down each problem then move on to the big room at midday.

In reply to Mutl3y:

Don't know if your aware but if you go across the car park there's bouldering for grown ups,mini works is for kids, why should they cordon off an area ? Just watch what your doing.the whole reason for the mini works is to get kids climbing and it frees up the climbing works for adults.hope they didn't hog the slide too,damn kids

In reply to Wsdconst:

Yes very good.

FYI - I was there with my 19 month old daughter. It is actually supposed to be a climbing venue. There are signs everywhere saying so.

In reply to Mutl3y:

When did I say it wasn't for climbing ?
They run classes for toddlers not grown men I take my daughter there,purely as a catcher as I make it my responsibility she doesn't get squashed by the weirdo grown ups(joke) .i would be pissed off if it was at the works, but at the mini works you can't complain about the kids,yeah I know it's the hippie parents who seem too lax(stoned)to chase after they're little ones (I've witnessed it too)

In reply to Mutl3y:

For clarity for everyone thinking I was some sort of maniac flailing about on stuff at the mini - I dropped a couple of feet thinking the Coast was clear only for a child to come running round the corner at me.

Some of the problems in the mini are actually quite stiff. There isn't a house rule saying "don't climb if you think you will fall off" - as well there shouldn't - and the present arrangement seems a bit dangerous to me.

To the people saying that I should have a word with staff If I see something. Well I did but they weren't too fussed. Try going some time - it is fairly chaotic. You use a bit of judgement but it's a learning curve. It appears my experience puts me in a minority.

Final thing - it is precisely because I am a parent that I was there and also because of that I think it could do with a bit of segregation - really easy stuff and slide for the really little chaotic ones; somewhere else for the ones with a inning agenda; over the road at the big one for the big ones / ones who will properly behave.

It's not that mad an idea surely?

Thanks for replies everyone tho. I wanted views and got them

In reply to Wsdconst:

Being supervised by her mum at that point.

Are you trying to catch me out or something?

In reply to Mutl3y:

No,edited my post as I thought it sounded a bit shitty and gave the wrong message,I m not really having a go just having a bit of banter

In reply to Wsdconst:

Fair enough. I explained myself above anyway and our messages crossed I think.

In reply to Wsdconst:

Just to clarify, they make it clear on the website that the mini works isn't just for kids therefore I think it would be prudent to ensure small children who do not have the capacity to understand the implications of their actions should be appropriately supervised and that responsibility would ultimately be for their parents or whoever has taken them there. Maybe they could have identified areas with age restrictions?

In reply to Mutl3y:

It's due to ignorance on the parent's part and poor general supervision by the wall staff. It's far too common and sooner or later there is going to be a serious if not tragic event.

Why do walls allow parents to bring todlers into such a potentially dangerous envionment?

In reply to Trangia:

Have you been to the MiniWorks? It's a kids wall. A large proportion of the parents are climbers, who know exactly what the score is.
Have you met many climbers? I mean, tongue in cheek but they can be a bit less risk averse than other folk, and so it goes when they become parents. It doesn't mean they are completely careless though.

The MiniWorks is a good idea, maybe it needs refinement, but y'know, it's nice to go somewhere you use your judgement instead of it being black and white do this do that, and it just kinda works.

In reply to jeffsheard:
Never been to Miniworks. I was answering the title which says "walls" in plural, so my response was in respect of walls in general.

I would add that I've seen more than one near miss incident concerning toddlers and think that if they are going to be admitted they should be supervised at all times, particularly under lead walls.

In reply to Trangia:



Because the parents want to climb, or want to introduce their children to climbing, and the wall owners don't want to exclude them (and may have small kids themselves). Don't have kids myself, but can understand that those with toddlers don't want to give up climbing until the kids are in their teens

The mini-works was designed very much with kids in mind, but is not meant to be exclusively for kids, just as the main centre doesn't exclude them. It's fairly obvious at the mini-works that you need to take more care and will have to be more tolerant of kids there. Of course you get some parents, and some kids, who think it's no different to a soft-play area, but IME it's a small majority - usually where the parents aren't climbers and don't realise the danger. A quiet word with the kids, parents or the staff is all that's required

In reply to Trangia:

Even more so under bouldering walls given that that is the only type where, first clip aside, ground falls are usual (albeit onto matting).

I've nearly fallen on a kid who ran under me at exactly the second I came off. I shouted loudly, the parents grabbed him. Close. And at nearly 19 stone falling from about 2m, I'd quite possibly actually kill a small child if I landed on them. Yes, you can stop and climb down if a kid walks underneath, but not if they walk underneath, unseen up to then, precisely at the second you come off.

So, yes, I'd say young children should be supervised closely in walls. Probably up to about the age they would be allowed to cross the road by themselves.

In reply to climber34neil:

I never said it was just for kids,have you ever been ? The works is just across the car park and I'm sure staff would do something about little kids running a mock in there.the mini works is basically there for kids it's got slides for gods sake surely that would give you a clue as to who the target clientele are. Of course they need to keep the parents happy too.

In reply to jeffsheard:




I thinks there's only you and me that have actually been to the mini works and know what it's about

In reply to Mutl3y:


I don't know the Mini Works but I think there is a specific problem with chasing/tig games that kids like to play since they tend to run fast close-in to the bouldering wall and stop near corners to peak round. If a kid comes round a corner quickly and close-in to the bouldering wall and you are high up about to jump/fall off you don't see them in time.

In reply to Wsdconst:

I have been in once when it first opened but I haven't been in since as it did feel like o was gatecrashing a toddlers party! And I agree that it certainly gives the impression that it's for kids however the website gives a different impression and also talking to others who do use it there would seem to be extentions of some of the circuits from the main wall in there. I think the difficulty comes when, as you say they have to keep the parents happy to . Perhaps they need to change the information on the website to be more representative of the clientele and then others could decide if they may be should go across the car park to climb?

In reply to Mutl3y:

I think wandering kids is a generic problem at indoor facilities. Particularly at weekends with parties, the odd one can stray and get in the way when belaying. I usually find asking them to move, reminding adults with them to keep the strays under control as a climbing wall is not a playground works.

In reply to climber34neil:

Well I can't disagree with that.normally the little ones stay around the slide area but since they changed the back area they're all over the place.think it's just a case of staying in your comfort zone of problems and keeping an eye out.just treat it like an outside problem with a sketchy landing.

In reply to Mutl3y:

I agree some kind of segregation might be a good idea. Awesome Walls has a segregated area for young children and as far as I know it works pretty well.

I've climbed whilst having my young boy in tow and its a total mare when they're at a certain age. The only way to do it properly is to have two adults, one climbing and the other supervising the young child. That's the only way they're never unsupervised. It only takes a few seconds for them to get up and leg straight under a falling climber. If they could be put in some partitioned area when the parents want to climb it would be a lot more relaxing for the parents too because as a parent the dangers are very obvious.

In reply to Mutl3y:

Just been to the wall in Montpellier and ok, it's wednesday and the kids are day off but there were lots of todlers crawling about on the mats under the bouldering wall and no-one was taking any notice and I suppose no-one will until there is an accident.

In reply to stp:



If you're on your own with a small child you shouldn't be bouldering at all. Several times (latest was yesterday) I've seen children initially supervised by adults, who succumb to the temptation to do some climbing themselves while their kids run round plying tag. My 'spotter' (mate taking the piss out of my ineptitude) had to shoo them away from under me.

In reply to Mutl3y:

Cant say I have really seen much of this happening at our local wall (Eden Rock). In the 2yrs I have been going with my 8yr old daughter I have only seen a couple of occasions where an errant child would be in danger and usually an annoyed look is enough to get the parent to reel the kid back into line.

In reply to Andrew Kinnersley:

I suspect you have better parents in your part of the world.

In reply to Mutl3y:

Haha, I wouldn't have thought so.

In reply to Mutl3y:

Well I'd class the Mini-Works as the 'kids' wall.

Although what happened shouldn't have happened, you should expect it to happen (ie small kids wandering around, as is their nature).

And parent shouldn't moan if their kid get crushed either, if left to wander around.

(Parent of two, who has used the Works and Mini Works).

BUT, when the kids were just in the Main Works (pre-mini works), then I would have been totally with your post.