UKC

Has anyone come across the use of a slip knot inserted just above where a person ties into the rope so that it precedes the climber as he ascends on a top rope. This prevents a 'tight rope' ascent, which seems an interesting idea, but I have thought of a couple of concerns.
1. The knot would presumably come under considerable wear as it would mostly be tied in the same part of the rope each time (especially when suddenly loaded).
2. A beginner especially might be put off by the feeling of 'drop' as a failed attempt pulls the knot out before coming onto the security of a tensioned rope.
This method is being used in a local school where ropes are permanently in place and so heavily used
Any comments? Am I just being negative about a useful technique which encourages taking an early acceptance of falling or succeeding in sports climbing according to one's ability to progress without assistance from an ego massaging 'tight rope'?

In reply to Stairclimber:
Slip knot, pah! Read Harold Drasdo's review of John Redhead's '... and one for the crow' http://footlesscrow.blogspot.fr/2012/08/harold-drasdo-reviews-john-redheads... :


Wear on the rope would be the least of your worries!

In reply to jon:

Pretty sure naked climbing (or anything else) is frowned on in education establishments these days.

Won't somebody think of the children!!!!

In reply to Stairclimber:

Seems a bit unnecessary to me, surely it's not that hard to tell if a climber is being hoisted up by their belayer is it?

But:
1: Nah, doubt that. If they're tying the climber in with a FoE, I'd expect the rope to wear more there from the FoE tightening up under load than from a little slip-knot popping out further up.

2: Probably not a problem either tbh. In the event of a sudden fall a beginner scared of falling will most likely be no more scared by that couple of inches of slack than they already were. In the event that the belayer takes before the fall or prior to lowering off, the slip knot pops out before the climber properly weights the rope anyway.

In reply to deepsoup:

Is there not a potential issue with fast moving rope against not moving rope as the slip knot is loaded/releases?
Besides that, seems a bit contrived, and possibly a little cruel on the children.

In reply to Kevster:

I suppose it's possible, but I don't really think so as I'd expect the slip knot to release under very little load.


I'm with you there.

In reply to Stairclimber:

Can't the belayer just not take the rope in as much?

In reply to Michael Gordon:


Sometimes the simplest solution is the best .i hate when I top rope a route and whoevers belaying me thinks they have to try and drag me up the route, I want it to feel the same as if I was leading but with the added safety,so I id say as long as the belayer is really competent to judge how much slack then yours is a better solution than adding a slipknot,

In reply to Stairclimber:

My first concern - child gets scared, grabs the slipknot with their hand, child suddenly falls and slipknot traps their hand/fingers causing some kind of hand injury.

Is this scenario utterly impossible for any reason? (maybe the slipknot is tied out of reach).

In reply to SenzuBean:

First potential problem spotted,thinking about it it would have to be quite a big loop to make it feel like a fall so could get snagged on holds and tighten around the hold if the climber took a fall this could be quite serious

In reply to SenzuBean:


I remember reading on another thread a while back someone saying they'd lost a thumb as a result of taking a lead fall with a loop of rope round it.

The other thing with the slip knot idea is that presumably it is supposed to get pulled out every time the climber lowers off and there's a chance it may stick or get pulled into/past the lower off.

It just seems like a generally bad idea to go from something simple and safe and with complete control of the amount of slack to something more complex, possibly less safe and with less control.

Why not just wait until the kid is ready to climb with a little slack, they will ask for it all on their own when they get good enough to want to do the move properly?

In reply to SenzuBean:
That's a good point, I hadn't thought about that.

In reply to Stairclimber:

Sounds like a recipe for broken digits or worse. Pointless and risky.
jk

In reply to Stairclimber:

After thinking more - I think a safer way to get the same effect is to use a rubber band. The rubber band is threaded onto the rope, a bight is formed where the slipknot is desired, the rubber band gets one twist, and is then pulled over the bight - locking it in place. This will basically eliminate the slip knot hand trap danger I mentioned, as well as making it easier to release the rope.

I'm not advocating the original idea, but think if it is going to be done, to do it safer.

In reply to Stairclimber:

Useful? To whom? Why not just ask to leave a bit of slack? Anyone who asks for a tight rope to haul them up something ....can do what they like really!

In reply to Stairclimber:

"Who the f***ing hell are Slipknot?"

b

In reply to Stairclimber:

Interesting to read people's thoughts. My topic was prompted by hearing about a secondary school here in Briancon (France) seemingly using this technique with groups of teenagers lucky enough to have rock climbing taught as part of their curriculum in their multi sport hall that includes a 15m climbing wall on three sides. Thanks for the comments.