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This morming my wife said that she felt that we needed help with the housework. Now I do a fair bit, including all the washing and ironing and some cooking but it would be fair to say that she does all the cleaning and shopping. I do have a theory why she feels that it is taking her so long to do her part and it's that she is continually on facebook, twitter, and instagram. Any small task that she's doing is subject to interruptions whilst she catches up and replies. Making a cup of tea can involve boiling and reboiling the kettle a number of times.
How can I gently break my theory to her without provoking a war?
I don't do social media and I don't believe a womans place is in the kitchen. I do however have a belief that you should only pay someone to do a job that you can't do yourself, so I decorate but don't do electrics.
The irony of posting this on here is not lost on me.
How can I gently break my theory to her without provoking a war?
I don't do social media and I don't believe a womans place is in the kitchen. I do however have a belief that you should only pay someone to do a job that you can't do yourself, so I decorate but don't do electrics.
The irony of posting this on here is not lost on me.
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In reply to bleddynmawr:
You can't.
DIY is scab labour !
> How can I gently break my theory to her without provoking a war?
You can't.
> I don't do social media and I don't believe a womans place is in the kitchen. I do however have a belief that you should only pay someone to do a job that you can't do yourself, so I decorate but don't do electrics.
DIY is scab labour !
In reply to bleddynmawr:
If a war is possible, my wisdom is.... don't tell her your theory.
> How can I gently break my theory to her without provoking a war?
If a war is possible, my wisdom is.... don't tell her your theory.
In reply to bleddynmawr:
Easy, just help her when she is actually doing the housework, then sit down at identical times when she is on social media... drinking tea etc. and do the same. Perhaps if she thinks you are slacking, you can point out the irony to her too.
You don't actually need to do the social media thing, just sit there doing f all.
Easy, just help her when she is actually doing the housework, then sit down at identical times when she is on social media... drinking tea etc. and do the same. Perhaps if she thinks you are slacking, you can point out the irony to her too.
You don't actually need to do the social media thing, just sit there doing f all.
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In reply to bleddynmawr:
I believe you need to perform a detailed "time and motion" study and present her with the written report. Possibly best to lead with a punchy executive summary incase an instafacetwit distracts her before reaching the conclusions.
Whilst she reads it you can pack a bag...
I believe you need to perform a detailed "time and motion" study and present her with the written report. Possibly best to lead with a punchy executive summary incase an instafacetwit distracts her before reaching the conclusions.
Whilst she reads it you can pack a bag...
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In reply to bleddynmawr:
You almost certainly don't do this. For example, how much of your own food do you grow/catch yourself (you could doubtless manage some of it!) Do you make your own clothes? (You could.)
Embrace society, and benefit from the work of others as they (probably) benefit from yours!
Do you earn enough between you to pay for someone to help with the housework?
If so, would this expense be worth it to your wife (and you, if only to avoid arguments and stress)?
If so, pay for some help. Your wife will be happier, and you'll help someone else earn a living.
Otherwise, point this out and have the argument!
> I do however have a belief that you should only pay someone to do a job that you can't do yourself
You almost certainly don't do this. For example, how much of your own food do you grow/catch yourself (you could doubtless manage some of it!) Do you make your own clothes? (You could.)
Embrace society, and benefit from the work of others as they (probably) benefit from yours!
Do you earn enough between you to pay for someone to help with the housework?
If so, would this expense be worth it to your wife (and you, if only to avoid arguments and stress)?
If so, pay for some help. Your wife will be happier, and you'll help someone else earn a living.
Otherwise, point this out and have the argument!
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In reply to bleddynmawr:
I hope you've explained to her, that the reason women have such small feet is so they can stand nearer to the kitchen sink?!...They always find that very 'funny'....
> The irony of posting this on here is not lost on me.
I hope you've explained to her, that the reason women have such small feet is so they can stand nearer to the kitchen sink?!...They always find that very 'funny'....
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In reply to MG:
I'm not sure I count forums as social media as such either. Same way I don't count email.
I'm not sure I count forums as social media as such either. Same way I don't count email.
Post edited at 10:38
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In reply to bleddynmawr:
Washing. So that's an onerous 30 second task to undertake then - pick up clothes, put in machine, add powder or gel, turn the knob, switch on.
If a cleaner makes life more pleasant do it - I had one for six months when the walls were threatening to crush me, and it made a significant difference to my happiness levels! Trial basis even, perhaps.
Washing. So that's an onerous 30 second task to undertake then - pick up clothes, put in machine, add powder or gel, turn the knob, switch on.
If a cleaner makes life more pleasant do it - I had one for six months when the walls were threatening to crush me, and it made a significant difference to my happiness levels! Trial basis even, perhaps.
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In reply to bleddynmawr:
If it was me I'd probably increase the amount I did, rather than point out she spends a lot of time on social media.
Or get a cleaner.
If you mention the time she spends on facebook etc, you'll possibly still end up getting a cleaner, but will have had 'words' taking place as well.
It depends on her personality I guess. Good luck.
If it was me I'd probably increase the amount I did, rather than point out she spends a lot of time on social media.
Or get a cleaner.
If you mention the time she spends on facebook etc, you'll possibly still end up getting a cleaner, but will have had 'words' taking place as well.
It depends on her personality I guess. Good luck.
Post edited at 11:07
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In reply to bleddynmawr:
Social Media and staying in touch with friends/ family/ society in general is becoming a more and more important part of life (almost essential to some).
Imagine the time (and therefore money) your wife saves by being able to make a quick call or comment via social media to friends and family, rather than writing a letter or driving round to their house etc.
The social capital gained from this is also immense. (Some) people now judge you by your appearance on social media, rather than, say, how smart your house is, etc etc.
I'm not saying this is correct. But trends change, society develops and it seems social media is here to stay.
My girlfriend and I pay £20 every fortnight for a cleaner and it is honestly one of the best things we've done to make our relationship easier.
Swallow your pride (apologies if that sounds harsh, but it was certainly an issue for me).
You won't regret it.
Social Media and staying in touch with friends/ family/ society in general is becoming a more and more important part of life (almost essential to some).
Imagine the time (and therefore money) your wife saves by being able to make a quick call or comment via social media to friends and family, rather than writing a letter or driving round to their house etc.
The social capital gained from this is also immense. (Some) people now judge you by your appearance on social media, rather than, say, how smart your house is, etc etc.
I'm not saying this is correct. But trends change, society develops and it seems social media is here to stay.
My girlfriend and I pay £20 every fortnight for a cleaner and it is honestly one of the best things we've done to make our relationship easier.
Swallow your pride (apologies if that sounds harsh, but it was certainly an issue for me).
You won't regret it.
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In reply to bleddynmawr:
ha! Yes! Someone else gets it!
My ex and I (no we did not break up over this!) had an arguement once because of similar. I'm not an early riser by nature so on a Saturday I would enjoy a lie in until 10-11, while she would be up at 9 and be 'cleaning'. She had a big go at me once when she snapped having thought I was slacking off and letting her do all the work.
I had to explain that I was happy to pull my weight, and did (I'd get up and then clean the bathroom/bedroom/do the shopping etc, it was very 50/50), but that while I was happy to do 50/50, I wasn't prepared to promise to do my half of the chores at exactly the same time she did hers. After discussion she did actually get what I meant and realised she was being unfair. Harmonious living followed.
The bit I didn't explain was that I would do the same chores she took 2 hours to do in approx 30 mins, because I'd go at it, get it done so I could enjoy my weekend. She would spend 15 mins tidying up some magazines because it would involve re-reading them. She would take an hour to clean the kitchen because she spent a good half that time sat watching tv. She would take triple the time to clean the bathroom because she was on the phone for most of the time.
It was a weird blind spot of hers.
Personally I just made sure to do that little bit more and during a time she could see it happening, and maybe make a point of making a nice lunch for us after we'd both finished as a sign of appreciation of her efforts. Yes that's rather a one sided compromise but i loved her and she was happier for it.
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but that's too mushy, can I copy Wintertree's response? It's fantastic
"I believe you need to perform a detailed "time and motion" study and present her with the written report. Possibly best to lead with a punchy executive summary incase an instafacetwit distracts her before reaching the conclusions.
Whilst she reads it you can pack a bag..."
ha! Yes! Someone else gets it!
My ex and I (no we did not break up over this!) had an arguement once because of similar. I'm not an early riser by nature so on a Saturday I would enjoy a lie in until 10-11, while she would be up at 9 and be 'cleaning'. She had a big go at me once when she snapped having thought I was slacking off and letting her do all the work.
I had to explain that I was happy to pull my weight, and did (I'd get up and then clean the bathroom/bedroom/do the shopping etc, it was very 50/50), but that while I was happy to do 50/50, I wasn't prepared to promise to do my half of the chores at exactly the same time she did hers. After discussion she did actually get what I meant and realised she was being unfair. Harmonious living followed.
The bit I didn't explain was that I would do the same chores she took 2 hours to do in approx 30 mins, because I'd go at it, get it done so I could enjoy my weekend. She would spend 15 mins tidying up some magazines because it would involve re-reading them. She would take an hour to clean the kitchen because she spent a good half that time sat watching tv. She would take triple the time to clean the bathroom because she was on the phone for most of the time.
It was a weird blind spot of hers.
Personally I just made sure to do that little bit more and during a time she could see it happening, and maybe make a point of making a nice lunch for us after we'd both finished as a sign of appreciation of her efforts. Yes that's rather a one sided compromise but i loved her and she was happier for it.
-------
but that's too mushy, can I copy Wintertree's response? It's fantastic
"I believe you need to perform a detailed "time and motion" study and present her with the written report. Possibly best to lead with a punchy executive summary incase an instafacetwit distracts her before reaching the conclusions.
Whilst she reads it you can pack a bag..."
In reply to bleddynmawr:
If you both work full time it, doesn't seem quite fair to me to point out how inefficient she is at house work, if she does most of it.
If you both work full time it, doesn't seem quite fair to me to point out how inefficient she is at house work, if she does most of it.
Post edited at 11:36
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In reply to bleddynmawr:
She's just made the biggest tactical error ever by trading away her position or moral superiority every time you want to avoid or postpone some domestic task for the price of a cleaner. Act fast before she changes her mind.
She's just made the biggest tactical error ever by trading away her position or moral superiority every time you want to avoid or postpone some domestic task for the price of a cleaner. Act fast before she changes her mind.
In reply to edunn:
True to a degree. The form this 'staying in touch' takes though seems to have less and less value in some ways. It's a double edged sword. For example, I'm friends on Facebook with my Swedish relatives and see what's going on in their lives in ways I never did before, which is great. But, 'liking' pictures of them and their kids isn't the same as the hand-written letters I used to exchange with my cousins. Showing my age there - actual letters....on paper.....written with a pen.....and posted!!!!
Here's the problem, but perhaps I'm just revealing my own weakness: most social media interactions aren't really meaningful, even if they do have some value as social glue. Getting distracted for five minutes by watching a cat video, or reading some '10 actors who used to be ugly' article some friend has linked to...etc, isn't really the brave new world of social interconnectivity. It's literally a waste of valuable time. If it was a question of making a useful comment, sending a quick message about something real, organising something useful etc, rather than just spending a few minutes getting distracted by most of the crap that goes around on social media, then yes, it's a great time saving efficiency.
The flip side is how easy it is to undo yourself on social media. There are quite a few people I've 'hidden' as a result of their constant trivial nonsense, their constant fake positivity or humble bragging, their constant pictures of their awful children etc..... or their 'Britain First' links Easy to diminish yourself too in the eyes of others by lack of care in your online presence.
> Social Media and staying in touch with friends/ family/ society in general is becoming a more and more important part of life (almost essential to some).
True to a degree. The form this 'staying in touch' takes though seems to have less and less value in some ways. It's a double edged sword. For example, I'm friends on Facebook with my Swedish relatives and see what's going on in their lives in ways I never did before, which is great. But, 'liking' pictures of them and their kids isn't the same as the hand-written letters I used to exchange with my cousins. Showing my age there - actual letters....on paper.....written with a pen.....and posted!!!!
> Imagine the time (and therefore money) your wife saves by being able to make a quick call or comment via social media to friends and family, rather than writing a letter or driving round to their house etc.
Here's the problem, but perhaps I'm just revealing my own weakness: most social media interactions aren't really meaningful, even if they do have some value as social glue. Getting distracted for five minutes by watching a cat video, or reading some '10 actors who used to be ugly' article some friend has linked to...etc, isn't really the brave new world of social interconnectivity. It's literally a waste of valuable time. If it was a question of making a useful comment, sending a quick message about something real, organising something useful etc, rather than just spending a few minutes getting distracted by most of the crap that goes around on social media, then yes, it's a great time saving efficiency.
> The social capital gained from this is also immense. (Some) people now judge you by your appearance on social media, rather than, say, how smart your house is, etc etc.
The flip side is how easy it is to undo yourself on social media. There are quite a few people I've 'hidden' as a result of their constant trivial nonsense, their constant fake positivity or humble bragging, their constant pictures of their awful children etc..... or their 'Britain First' links Easy to diminish yourself too in the eyes of others by lack of care in your online presence.
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In reply to ChrisBrooke:
It can be a means of self analysis in a way. 'Is what I'm going to write/share decent or something I'd be happy for everybody to see?'
> The flip side is how easy it is to undo yourself on social media. There are quite a few people I've 'hidden' as a result of their constant trivial nonsense, their constant fake positivity or humble bragging, their constant pictures of their awful children etc..... or their 'Britain First' links Easy to diminish yourself too in the eyes of others by lack of care in your online presence.
It can be a means of self analysis in a way. 'Is what I'm going to write/share decent or something I'd be happy for everybody to see?'
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In reply to bleddynmawr:
How about turning off the router during "chore times" (presuming you can't get a decent mobile signal indoors - or better unhook the idsl/fibre line but leave router on - this will make the phone connect to router rather than go via phone network)
How about turning off the router during "chore times" (presuming you can't get a decent mobile signal indoors - or better unhook the idsl/fibre line but leave router on - this will make the phone connect to router rather than go via phone network)
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In reply to ChrisBrooke:
I think Social Media's worth depends on how you use it and what you as an individual get from it.
Personally I love being able to see what my friends that I can't often get to see are up to and what's happening in their lives, I make a point of speaking to many of them far more than I would have done pre-facebook, and I have retained and refound friendships that I would have lost and mourned. It's also an excellent away of arranging events, keeping up with the local music scene etc.
My ex found great worth in it because she felt her whole life revolved around her children. Being able to be on facebook a bit during the day, and particularly in the evenings meant she felt connected to a social group and less alone. It also helped her make a lot of friends following her separation from her husband and she's now at a festival surrounded by them instead of at home on her own.
I've friends who have social anxiety problems, who's had a difficult time coming out as gay, who've been depressed, or had a variety of other issues that would have previously left them emotionally crippled and isolated. Instead they've found support and a new life that has after a time moved over in to 'real life' friendship groups (I know some people who've found similar through online gaming too).
When people complain about kids only communicating through facebook and texts, they're not seeing that despite the text speak curse, children these days have higher communication skills than before because that's what they're doing all day. They're constantly plugged in to friends and family, a wealth of education and support.
Yes there are downsides - absolutely - and if I were to ramble on longer I could list them too, but most are in the exceptions - the 'online predators', the suicides from online bullying, the people goaded into stupid things.
Anyway, just putting the alternate view. Personally I think it's an exciting time and can see great benefits to many many people.
I think Social Media's worth depends on how you use it and what you as an individual get from it.
Personally I love being able to see what my friends that I can't often get to see are up to and what's happening in their lives, I make a point of speaking to many of them far more than I would have done pre-facebook, and I have retained and refound friendships that I would have lost and mourned. It's also an excellent away of arranging events, keeping up with the local music scene etc.
My ex found great worth in it because she felt her whole life revolved around her children. Being able to be on facebook a bit during the day, and particularly in the evenings meant she felt connected to a social group and less alone. It also helped her make a lot of friends following her separation from her husband and she's now at a festival surrounded by them instead of at home on her own.
I've friends who have social anxiety problems, who's had a difficult time coming out as gay, who've been depressed, or had a variety of other issues that would have previously left them emotionally crippled and isolated. Instead they've found support and a new life that has after a time moved over in to 'real life' friendship groups (I know some people who've found similar through online gaming too).
When people complain about kids only communicating through facebook and texts, they're not seeing that despite the text speak curse, children these days have higher communication skills than before because that's what they're doing all day. They're constantly plugged in to friends and family, a wealth of education and support.
Yes there are downsides - absolutely - and if I were to ramble on longer I could list them too, but most are in the exceptions - the 'online predators', the suicides from online bullying, the people goaded into stupid things.
Anyway, just putting the alternate view. Personally I think it's an exciting time and can see great benefits to many many people.
In reply to Scarab9:
I agree with most of what you write there. I was, I hope, balanced in what I wrote above. I love Facebook (don't really use twitter, instagram or...whatever the next big thing is) and am on it a lot. There's so much positive about it, but I was just trying to point out some of the down sides too. I'm wary of seeing all social media interactions as good, when it also seems responsible for the increased atomisation of society. I dare say there are sociology Phds working on this sort of thing as we speak. I'm sure we've all seen things like: parents out with their kids, all sitting there looking at screens instead of each other, or groups of friends doing the same. Are those social media interactions so important that they can't wait, or are they just looking at videos of cats...? It's like people with their phones on in the cinema. Fine if you're a doctor or call, or someone really important who can't be out of touch, but more likely you're some tw8t who is just seeing how many 'likes' your cat picture has got
I agree with most of what you write there. I was, I hope, balanced in what I wrote above. I love Facebook (don't really use twitter, instagram or...whatever the next big thing is) and am on it a lot. There's so much positive about it, but I was just trying to point out some of the down sides too. I'm wary of seeing all social media interactions as good, when it also seems responsible for the increased atomisation of society. I dare say there are sociology Phds working on this sort of thing as we speak. I'm sure we've all seen things like: parents out with their kids, all sitting there looking at screens instead of each other, or groups of friends doing the same. Are those social media interactions so important that they can't wait, or are they just looking at videos of cats...? It's like people with their phones on in the cinema. Fine if you're a doctor or call, or someone really important who can't be out of touch, but more likely you're some tw8t who is just seeing how many 'likes' your cat picture has got
In reply to bleddynmawr:
Social Media saves so much time in our modern busy lives!
Remember when you used to take a picture of your dinner, take the film down to Boots to be developed, go back a week later to pick up the prints, then go around all your friend's houses to give each of them a copy of the picture?
Social Media saves so much time in our modern busy lives!
Remember when you used to take a picture of your dinner, take the film down to Boots to be developed, go back a week later to pick up the prints, then go around all your friend's houses to give each of them a copy of the picture?
Post edited at 12:57
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In reply to Fredt:
I saw that on facebook too, with Stop Doing It! or similar coming after.
> Social Media saves so much time in our modern busy lives!
> Remember when you used to take a picture of your dinner, take the film down to Boots to be developed, go back a week later to pick up the prints, then go around all your friend's houses to give each of them a copy of the picture?
I saw that on facebook too, with Stop Doing It! or similar coming after.
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In reply to Timmd:
I tried this approach with disasterous consequences.
Suffice to say me and Mrs Wanderer are no longer wandering together.
However, I dont have the semi permanent distraction of a wife who spends 90% of her free time (and I mean time that could be put to constructive use such as doing a little cleaning/tidying/washing, basically putting a bit of effort into running a household) engaging in facebook/twitter/whateverelseyoucanwasteryourlifeawaywith.com
and am a lot happier as a result.
Here endeth the lesson.
> (In reply to bleddynmawr) If it was me I'd probably increase the amount I did, rather than point out she spends a lot of time on social media.
>
> It depends on her personality I guess. Good luck.
>
> It depends on her personality I guess. Good luck.
I tried this approach with disasterous consequences.
Suffice to say me and Mrs Wanderer are no longer wandering together.
However, I dont have the semi permanent distraction of a wife who spends 90% of her free time (and I mean time that could be put to constructive use such as doing a little cleaning/tidying/washing, basically putting a bit of effort into running a household) engaging in facebook/twitter/whateverelseyoucanwasteryourlifeawaywith.com
and am a lot happier as a result.
Here endeth the lesson.
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In reply to ChrisBrooke:
It can be a 'chain' as well as something useful.
> I dare say there are sociology Phds working on this sort of thing as we speak. I'm sure we've all seen things like: parents out with their kids, all sitting there looking at screens instead of each other, or groups of friends doing the same. Are those social media interactions so important that they can't wait, or are they just looking at videos of cats...? It's like people with their phones on in the cinema. Fine if you're a doctor or call, or someone really important who can't be out of touch, but more likely you're some tw8t who is just seeing how many 'likes' your cat picture has got
It can be a 'chain' as well as something useful.
Post edited at 13:02
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In reply to ChrisBrooke:
My own view is people are spending time on social media because it gives positive feedback and distracts us from the mundane things that surround us.
Sure. I would rather be getting lots of affirmation that I'm great on FaceBook or have a meaningful discussion on a climbing forum but generally we're just killing time. But no more than we were when we were watching TV. I no longer watch TV.
If someone's wife is spending too much time on the phone it's because they're escaping from something (I'm probably as guilty of that as maybe a lot of people here are.)
Maybe an evening out without phones and a long chat about whatever it is she's escaping from is overdue.
Get a cleaner in and the cleaning time will just be filled with the phone.
Life is easy, the more easy it becomes, the more dull it becomes and the easy tasks become to appear hard. Not physically, but mentally.
My own view is people are spending time on social media because it gives positive feedback and distracts us from the mundane things that surround us.
Sure. I would rather be getting lots of affirmation that I'm great on FaceBook or have a meaningful discussion on a climbing forum but generally we're just killing time. But no more than we were when we were watching TV. I no longer watch TV.
If someone's wife is spending too much time on the phone it's because they're escaping from something (I'm probably as guilty of that as maybe a lot of people here are.)
Maybe an evening out without phones and a long chat about whatever it is she's escaping from is overdue.
Get a cleaner in and the cleaning time will just be filled with the phone.
Life is easy, the more easy it becomes, the more dull it becomes and the easy tasks become to appear hard. Not physically, but mentally.
Post edited at 14:39
In reply to bleddynmawr:
If you can afford a cleaner then get a cleaner. Think about all the time you'll have to do other things....
If you can afford a cleaner then get a cleaner. Think about all the time you'll have to do other things....
In reply to Bellie:
Nice idea but will take big balls to carry through with it.
> Easy, just help her when she is actually doing the housework, then sit down at identical times when she is on social media... drinking tea etc. and do the same. Perhaps if she thinks you are slacking, you can point out the irony to her too.
> You don't actually need to do the social media thing, just sit there doing f all.
Nice idea but will take big balls to carry through with it.
In reply to bleddynmawr:
Many thanks for all your considered responses, and even the unconsidered ones. Some were a little unexpected. She has a great personality and, as well as not wanting an argument, I genuinely don't want to upset her.
Thank you to those who talked about the unifying and positive effects of social media.That has helped me understand a little better how some value it, although for me it continues to be an irrelavance.
I will try a little harder, both in tolerance and in housework.
I don't care if it is original or not, fredt's response is glorious!
Many thanks.
Many thanks for all your considered responses, and even the unconsidered ones. Some were a little unexpected. She has a great personality and, as well as not wanting an argument, I genuinely don't want to upset her.
Thank you to those who talked about the unifying and positive effects of social media.That has helped me understand a little better how some value it, although for me it continues to be an irrelavance.
I will try a little harder, both in tolerance and in housework.
I don't care if it is original or not, fredt's response is glorious!
Many thanks.
In reply to dek:
Also pointing out that boxes are colour coded so white (fridge, washing machine etc) are designed for women and black (TV, HiFi etc) for men.
> ..They always find that very 'funny'....
Also pointing out that boxes are colour coded so white (fridge, washing machine etc) are designed for women and black (TV, HiFi etc) for men.
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In reply to bleddynmawr:
Oops, didn't mean to imply she mightn't have a great personality. More some people can be very sensitive.
> Many thanks for all your considered responses, and even the unconsidered ones. Some were a little unexpected. She has a great personality and, as well as not wanting an argument, I genuinely don't want to upset her.
Oops, didn't mean to imply she mightn't have a great personality. More some people can be very sensitive.
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