UKC

It is MOT time for my Car next week.

The car is a 2001, 1.9tdi Skoda Fabia estate. It has a few hundred miles short of 230k on the clock. The body work is tatty, with peeling paint and few small bumps and dings. Without an MOT I'd guess the car is worth about £100 for scrap.

On the plus side however the car starts first time, is relativity economical and drives smoothly. The gear box is a little clunky but this doesn't cause any problems.

As you can tell I don't anything about cars.

It also seems to be relatively cheap to repair. I got a new clutch in January, which cost in the region of £2-300 fitted. I imagine replacing the clutch on a newer car would be much more expensive and unless I buy a nearly new car (which I'm not going to do) things wear out on any car.

I'd ideally like to keep the car on the road, as although I can afford a new one, I'd rather keep saving the money.

I imagine the suspension will need doing; I live in Sheffield and roads here are awful.

If this was your car when would you call it a day and look getting a new car? If the MOT cost £600? £1000? Or more?

Any advice or general tips for keeping old, high mileage cars on the road gratefully received.

Tom

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I'm not sure why you imagine the suspension needs doing unless you've had advisories before or it's changed dramatically in the last year. Sounds like a solid car you've invested a bit in and you're in no rush to replace. I'd spend the £30-40 on the MOT to see what the situation is before rushing to judgement.

jk

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

If it goes through its next MOT without costing more than around £300, I'd hang on to it. My last car cost me around £1,000 in its last year before amazing me by passing its MOT, at which point I decided I couldn't face driving it any more (a long story) and sold it for £500.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Its always hard to call, and I'm guilty of chucking cash at old cars to the day I suddenly decide enough is enough but....

If you can put an MOT and a service on it annually for a few hundred quid, and if it has the odd other bill per year/tyres etc you are still in clover.

Buying new (especially if new means second hand and well used) means nothing other than swapping a known car with known issues and lots of known replaced bits for a totally unknown quantity that's likely to need similar amounts spent on it per year as your old one....

I've gone from running >10 year old higher mileage stuff that I was happy paying £500+ to MOT plus a service plus the odd consumables like tyres etc per year (and the odd bigger bill year) to running nearly new and keeping for hopefully 10 years or more... On the nearly new I'm still budgeting £85 per month to run a golf diesel (everything bar the fuel) and £125 per month to run a 3 litre diesel Signum. In both cases there is a bit of a surplus building up over first few years that will get eaten towards the end of life. But it shows that even running newer stuff you may well pay around high hundreds to £1,000 per year or more to run a car (10 to 12k miles on each per annum). If you buy a new one you simply shell out a bunch of cash on a depreciating asset for little or no saving in running costs. And often end up buying something that somebody else has carefully run down and sold after a 2 year period of doing as little as possible and just ahead of a few things moving from 'a bit iffy but life still remaining' into '10 major things all need doing now' - You end up chucking cash as each time a new thing needs done you know you need to do it to get a return on all the other jobs you've just done.

If not car proud and if what you have is reliable and doesn't leave you stranded regularly stick with it!

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide: Over £300 and I 'd give scrapping some serious thought. It's always a gamble but the odds are something else will go in the next year.

In reply to Ferret:


Cheers. We're not car proud at all. We do about 25,000 miles a year a the moment.

Car hasn't left me stranded since I filled it up with petrol a few years ago...

I guess I'll just have to wait and see what's wrong with it.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

If you will ultimately scrap the car then it makes sense to run it until it dies. The scrap value is not changed by it being a runner or not.
I would say that upto £500 to get through MOT would be bearable. As others say, you are better off with a car you know the history of. For example you do not have to worry about the clutch. The MOt could throw up all sorts of failures on suspension linkages which are worn for that kind of mileage, but they are not expensive to fix. Pads and discs may need doing, but again not the end of the world, all cars need this eventually.
Be careful where you go for the MOT. Some places offer a free test but you will not get out without replacing a load of stuff, which some establishments may have simply advised on.
You can have your MOT done by your local council. The tests are said to be very impartial and are done at the council transport depot. It is an extra income for these facilities and keeps them open so the staff welcome you using them.
If it fails on anything you take it elsewhere to have it fixed and should get it re-tested for free.
Check as much of the obvious stuff yourself before you go, otherwise you may fail unnecessarily for something simple. (Bulb/tyres/fluid level etc)

Andy

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Sold my Focus estate in the end for 3 main reasons, none of them mechanical - radio/CD had packed up, wife didn't like driving it and we needed a car with ISOFix for the kiddie.

Other than that, it was in fantastic condition for age and I still miss it 18 months later - my Audi A3 isn't anywhere near as comfortable, practical or as much fun to drive, despite a bigger engine and more power

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I've managed to drive for about £400 a year on car plus maintenance cost, ie not including ins, tax, fuel etc.

Each bill I look at as a purchase price plus scrap value as if I scrap I need to buy but have the scrap cash. Therefore if a bill is £300, I ask myself whether I would buy the car for £375 knowing all I know about that car. I take into account tyres etc, just as I would buying.

The biggest issue isn't big bills but dribs and drabs that mount up. I think weighing that up either comes down to advice from a very trusted mechanic or experience of old cars.

My motoring is so cheap because I buy old and sell after 2 or 3 yrs. I good buy will see me motoring for much less than the above, a less good buy for more but I'll try to pass it on quicker or keep it longer once sorted depending on the car.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Bought a Peugeot 306 1905 turbo diesel 3.5 years ago for £300. Budget was £300 per year after running costs (eg fuel insurance tax and tyres, brakes, oil etc ie. wear parts.) Due for it's test, with the same budget £300. It has just hit 360 000 miles, still does 56mpg all round and in 3.5 years has averaged £225 pa in repairs. If the test bill is more than £300 it gets scrapped and I buy another similar car and hope! (It may be worse or it may be better!) So long as it stays in budget I am keeping it. If it falls apart I will scrap it.
When I bought it a relative bought a 1 year old ford and is spending more on it than I am, and it's depreciation is more per year than my budget! You never know what you are buying.
The economics don't make sense to replace for the sake of it. If it is reliable and economic, and you don't mind an old model slightly tatty car, stick with it so long as it stays within a pre-set budget.
I have a good local garage who look after my Pug for me (they get it once a year for it's test and do a service after.) They recommended that I should swap it if the repair costs were twice the scrap price (In Sheffield I tried and was offered £150 as an MOT failure. Repaired it and it takes me all over Europe reliably and cheaply.
Decision is yours. Good luck.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I agree with all of those above. Keep it until it breaks or it stops being fuel efficient or the MOT test means its much better to scrap (always MOT early...you can do it a month before due date) . Most people with newer cars face more than 1000 a year on combined depreciation and repairs before running costs. I'm not poor but I drove my last Focus Estate (and the Escort Estate before that) until it died.

In reply to Offwidth:
Problem is if it dies a month or 2 after dropping 300 quid on it, our OP is going to be a little sore. There's no easy answer, this is were a good trusty mechanic is worth his weight in gold.

In reply to Mike Stretford:

In my experience trusty mechanics are gold dust, have big queues and can't fit you in easily without booking well in advance unless you are a close personal pal. 300 quid for 2 months is equivalent to 1800 for a year... par for the course for bad luck in a newer car and a much bigger hit in the old wallet.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I normally find that carefully driven, not to draw attention to yourself, you can normally drive for a year or two without an MOT.

In reply to birdie num num:

So if you end up killing someone for a fault you were unawre of or even got caught with a hefty fine how would you feel then?

In reply to Offwidth:

Dashed unlucky.

In reply to Mike Stretford:
You can't avoid risk and errors with cars. It's the average that counts. People pay through the nose to avoid the lesser costs.

I buy the wrong car every now and again. It doesn't put me off old cars as my mistake is a lot cheaper than buying the wrong nearly new car!

In reply to flopsicle:
It not a case of old banger or nearly new, there's a lot in between. The OP is doing the 'run it till it dies' thing. His question is what would constitute a dead car, difficult to answer but I'd say 300 quid on a 230k car and it's time to think about putting it out of its misery. I've seen people chuck far more than is sensibLe at a car in its last year because they paid a lot to get it through its mot.

In reply to Offwidth:


A good argument for not chucking money at old cars!

In reply to Mike Stretford:

I think mechanics costs tend to be more for expensive cars because if you get an expensive quote for work on a cheap car it can just be scrapped. There are loads of good cars out there well treated and regulaly serviced that can be purchsed cheaply and on average will last more than a year so are faboulous deals for those seeking to avoid depreciation costs. The actual downside is reduced reliability and alternative transport options if it breaks.

In reply to Mike Stretford:
See my first response. However, if he would buy the car for £400 knowing all he knows then repairing for 3 makes sense as he'll have to buy if he scraps the current car. You pays your money and takes your chance. In older cars that chance is less the cost of interest and depreciation!

In reply to flopsicle:

I think it depends on the car and your situation. I have a Honda with 120k on it, but a Honda engine can do 300 easy. However the car needs pretty much everything in the suspension doing, has a leaky main seal, and a few other problems. For the cost of getting this done +resale value I could get something newer without these problems, so I might as well do that.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I have a six year old Toyota Yaris with 180,000 miles on it. There's nothing wrong with it. It gets a service every 10,000 miles and in those six years it has had an air con recharge and a CV joint gaiter. Last month it got its second replacement pair of front discs and pads. Other than that, it's just tyres and windscreen wiper blades.

I can't think of a good reason to get rid of it, but as soon as I look at getting a replacement I can think of many reasons to keep it

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:
I got 240k out of an old petrol estate. I knew it was time to get rid when it was losing power prior to the mot.
Picked up another for £600, put a cam belt on and touch wood it's been ok for a couple of years.
I have a good vat free mechanic. He said it was losing oil and probably time to get rid of the old one.
He must be a sage as it broke down on the motorway after picking the new one up(

In reply to dsh:

That's why I said to look at each major cost as if it were a purchase price +scrap value. Pay the bill if you'd buy it for that knowing all that you do about the car.

Sub 1k car prices have barely shifted since the 1980s because the nation and it's kids are insanely rich. For us buying in the low end this is damp good news! You can still get a car that'll run for years for 500, few other things I know of have stayed so static and these days good uns don't even need wd40 to keep 'email trotting in the rain.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I think old cars are great. If the tool still does the job then what is the problem? Reliability can be an issue but if there is basic reliability in the role that you using the vehicle then putting some money out on regular maintenance should just be regarded as normal costs.

I run a 19 year old BMW and it is ridiculously reliable. Definitely not a friday afternoon car! I joke with the parts guy at the local dealer about being the only person in town that regularly escapes from a dealer parts desk with change of a tenner. It does the job that I ask it to do splendidly and reliably and if I end up spending a few hundred occasionally then its less that the depreciation alone on a newer one!

If you are not as technically experienced as me then I realise that the balance of age, maintenance and investment will be different. However, ten to twenty years ago there were some truly splendid motor cars built and they should not be discarded without good reason.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Until last October, when I bit the bullet yet again, I've had 3 cars in 26 years.

I put 240,000 on the first one in 12 years (13 years old when I got rid...company liquidation sale at 1 year old). Petrol.
Got the second one at 3 years and took it up to 230,000 8 years later, when it was terminated by an accident. Petrol.
Third one I got at 5 years old and took from 80,000 to 255,000 in 6 years. Diesel.

All of them still had mechanically sound engines after that mileage. Got rid of the 1st and 3rd when MOTs indicated several £ hundred needed on stuff like hydraulics, bodywork, etc to get through their MOTs

It's a fine judgement call on when to stop paying out for cars of that age, but in both scrappage cases I'd put a "pre-set limit" on what I was prepared to pay to keep them going and get them through MOTs, and was ruthless in sticking to it. But it was a big bonus knowing the history of my cars as they got older, and understanding when things were becoming a poor risk (ie, if I put a new clutch in now, it'll soon be over the limit for a new timing belt, so do I risk it? Or do I want to pay out for a new timing belt in 3 months time?....etc).

I do tend to have a little grin when people tell me their 60,000 mile cars "need" changing because of the "high mileage"!

In reply to flopsicle:

Yeah but I'd say £300 because for £400 he could get something with half the mileage on it. Just looked on ebay, there's some decent cars going with almost full 12months mot and at the 100k mark, might have to push the boat out and splash 600, but looking at them I wouldn't chuck money at car with 230k on it.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

A mistake I made many years agp.

My Talbot Sunbeam GLS was getting older and started costing me as much as £44 pounds per month. (I told you it was many years!)

I sold it to a friend (who got many years out of it, even on Shetland!). I bought a newer Volvo from a dealer with a used car warranty and soon found myself spending £700 on it in the first four months. So much for the savings of running a newer car and so much for the protection of a warranty!

Take care.

In reply to Mike Stretford:

I've obviously not explained what I mean very well. The op asked how people decide when to repair versus scrap. I said that I add the (checked) scrap value to the cost of the repair and ask myself whether I would buy the car for that price. For example if the bill is 300 and scrap value 100 I ask myself would I buy my own car for 400? What's available on the market is part of that, as would be what I know about my own car, such as reliability or lack of.

Lots of cars sound great but you don't get a clear picture till you start to actually go to see them. All of them are a gamble, even the very best.

In reply to flopsicle:

You explained very well and probaly just got ignored. Jim in his post above this has explained the flip side to the what if it breaks down nonsense. If its a good car going well, keep it.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

I've got an 04 plate Fabia with 130k on the clock so I'm heartened to see yours still running well at 230k. The only reason I'd sell mine is to swap it for a campervan!

In reply to flopsicle:


You explained the principle fine and repeatedly, as have others, and I agree with it, and so does the OP. So we can put that one to bed.

The OP asked for rough costs at which he would call it a day, which I've given with explanation, the biggest factors to me being the mileage on this car versus what else you could get for the money.

In reply to Offwidth:


You seem quite emotive about this.

It isn't 'nonesense'... it is the flip side to keeping a car with very high mileage.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:


That's about what I paid on a 7 year old car, there's no reason it should be much more expensive on a newer car.

In reply to Mike Stretford:

Unless you have a DMF, in which case add £200-500 if it needs doing.

If I could have my old 306 diesel back I'd take it in a hearbeat. Best car I ever had!

In reply to Jim Fraser:

One of my cars had been 25 years old repared for J40 to 50 a year and once an engine got blocked.
I had to cut it into sections that serve every its own purpose.
My brand new bought car serves me for 7 years for cca J50 a year. evidently for a low mileage,
it has now 120000
but mind I change timing belt or a pump on it where it stops in about an hour or so myself alone, for I hate assistance.
Once it stopped for a blackout, and it took me some ten minutes to unplug a shortcirquited screen heater.
Battery came in charge by itself and an engine started at the first touch, that is all for 7 years.
Its MOT costs me J10 yearly on bribe.
I have just got accustomed to my new car and she behaves friendly,so why part

In reply to birdie num num:

Until you kill sombody and the Police discover a fault, such as bad brakes or tyres and charge you with Manslaughter.

Cool idea.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

At 238860 miles you will have driven to the (average distance of the) moon! Seems a good target..

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

We sold our car about 15 months ago and never regret it. Never faced with unexpected bills, or regular drains on the money. In the 5 years before that we were continually reducing our mileage when we could, and even that saves a noticeable amount on wear and tear, and you start getting the benefits which come from not being in a car for too long each day.

Good luck though. In my experience, I'd stick with a car I know as long as I could.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:



The 1996 Audi A6 estate my dad gave to my childhood friend from nextdoor is still going strong I gather with nothing untoward appearing on it's last MOT, untill he got a newer BMW in 2014 he only spent around 300 a year on it to get it through it's MOT, and any other money was spent on the regular consumables.

I think some cars are just dead reliable, and if you know it's history you probably might as well keep it going until something huge needs paying for.

In reply to Rigid Raider:



It's Num Num, a fairly mild wind up for him, don't bite!

Thanks all...

It cost us £240 to get it's through its MOT.

I'm going to spend another £240 changing the cam belt as it was last changed 95k ago, when we bought the car, and I would be pretty bummed if it snapped tomorrow.