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I'm looking for a quality 2-3 season, lightweight fleece jacket that compresses well for packing. I have a couple of good, thick winter fleeces (North Face and Patagonia) but they fill up half my pack when not in use. I'm not too keen on a super slim/ technical fit, and prefer wearing a beanie to having a hood on my fleece. As it'll be used a lot both in the UK and when trekking and travelling, I'm prepared to pay for the right thing and for quality.
Any suggestions?
Any suggestions?
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In reply to Blue Yonder:
Why fleece, when you could have something like a Patagonia Nano puff hoody, very packable, light, warm, wind proof and shower proof, makes a near perfect mid layer.
Joe Brown is a great shop .
http://www.joe-brown.com/20901/products/patagonia-nano-puff-hoody.aspx?orig...
Why fleece, when you could have something like a Patagonia Nano puff hoody, very packable, light, warm, wind proof and shower proof, makes a near perfect mid layer.
Joe Brown is a great shop .
http://www.joe-brown.com/20901/products/patagonia-nano-puff-hoody.aspx?orig...
Post edited at 12:30
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In reply to gd303uk:
I'd say a key feature of an ideal midlayer would be breathability, which scuppers the Nanopuff.
I'd say a key feature of an ideal midlayer would be breathability, which scuppers the Nanopuff.
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In reply to Blue Yonder:
I would have thought for non-winter use something around the weight & warmth of a Patagonia R1 would be a better bet. I have an R2 and it's way too hot to wear when I'm moving. The Patagonia R1 jacket is nowhere near as well cut as the hoody, but plenty of other companies do similar things.
Agree with gd303uk though; for serious mountain use I would go for a light puffy over a fleece every time these days - Nano Puff, Atom LT, Montane Prism etc.
I would have thought for non-winter use something around the weight & warmth of a Patagonia R1 would be a better bet. I have an R2 and it's way too hot to wear when I'm moving. The Patagonia R1 jacket is nowhere near as well cut as the hoody, but plenty of other companies do similar things.
Agree with gd303uk though; for serious mountain use I would go for a light puffy over a fleece every time these days - Nano Puff, Atom LT, Montane Prism etc.
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In reply to AlanLittle:
Ding ding... pack smallers and is warmer than a fleece.
My old to-go mid layer was a Mont Bell UL Thermawrap, but now I'm using Inov-8 Thermoshell. Which breaths well enough for most activities (fall/spring climbing, hiking, ski touring and also as a mid layer when winter climbing), added bonus is to turn it over and then it is also wind proof, meaning I don't need to lug a windshell with me anymore.
> Agree with gd303uk though; for serious mountain use I would go for a light puffy over a fleece every time these days - Nano Puff, Atom LT, Montane Prism etc.
Ding ding... pack smallers and is warmer than a fleece.
My old to-go mid layer was a Mont Bell UL Thermawrap, but now I'm using Inov-8 Thermoshell. Which breaths well enough for most activities (fall/spring climbing, hiking, ski touring and also as a mid layer when winter climbing), added bonus is to turn it over and then it is also wind proof, meaning I don't need to lug a windshell with me anymore.
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In reply to AlanLittle:
The Patagonia Nano Air (not Puff) outperforms them all. Warmth, decent windproofing and superb breathability in one package. Not cheap but I haven't taken mine off since winter, such is the breadth of its operating range (and the weakness of this summer). It's outstandingly good for rock climbing because it dumps heat so well on the pitch and leaves you warm and snug on the belay. Looks good too.
The Patagonia Nano Air (not Puff) outperforms them all. Warmth, decent windproofing and superb breathability in one package. Not cheap but I haven't taken mine off since winter, such is the breadth of its operating range (and the weakness of this summer). It's outstandingly good for rock climbing because it dumps heat so well on the pitch and leaves you warm and snug on the belay. Looks good too.
Post edited at 13:19
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In reply to Blue Yonder:
I'd definitely stick with a fleece. Synthetic jackets are so far behind fleece in the breathability stakes, don't feel as nice, don't last as long, are more expensive, and layer badly under waterproofs. They are often heavier than lightweight fleeces, too, and as by the sounds of it you want something with just a bit of warmth I wouldn't go down the synthetic jacket route.
Get a microfleece or similar with a total weight of about 250 g. Most companies do them with a half-zip (Zip-T's) from Polartec 100 or similar and they'll last forever.
I'd definitely stick with a fleece. Synthetic jackets are so far behind fleece in the breathability stakes, don't feel as nice, don't last as long, are more expensive, and layer badly under waterproofs. They are often heavier than lightweight fleeces, too, and as by the sounds of it you want something with just a bit of warmth I wouldn't go down the synthetic jacket route.
Get a microfleece or similar with a total weight of about 250 g. Most companies do them with a half-zip (Zip-T's) from Polartec 100 or similar and they'll last forever.
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In reply to Blue Yonder:
The best thin fleece I've used is the Patagonia R1 pullover, the grip pattern fleece being very breathable an surprisingly warm for its low weight. Also very durable. Its not warm enough for sitting around in winter, but great as a general fleece. I will be buying another once it eventually wears out, despite the very high price.
The best thin fleece I've used is the Patagonia R1 pullover, the grip pattern fleece being very breathable an surprisingly warm for its low weight. Also very durable. Its not warm enough for sitting around in winter, but great as a general fleece. I will be buying another once it eventually wears out, despite the very high price.
In reply to Mr Fuller:
Agreed. Simple, cheap fleece and a lightweight, wind resistant shell are much more versatile than the current vogue of synthetic mid layers (which, having a shell, are actually lightweight outer layers).
You don't have to spend £120 on a fleece, either.
Agreed. Simple, cheap fleece and a lightweight, wind resistant shell are much more versatile than the current vogue of synthetic mid layers (which, having a shell, are actually lightweight outer layers).
You don't have to spend £120 on a fleece, either.
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I think the reason I'm thinking light fleece is partly durability but mainly flexibility - something that can be worn on mild-to-warm days as well as when being active. I have plenty of cold weather gear. This would be for when my warm fleece and down pull-over are overkill. Also, I wouldn't take a chunky fleece when climbing or trekking abroad, simply too bulky and hot. For situations where it's likely I'm going to get cold or sitting about in an exposed spot, then without a doubt my supremely compressible and light PHD down pullover is the business. The lightweight fleece would be more for milder conditions or for layering under a waterproof, or under the above mentioned down pullover in winter/altitude conditions.
The Patagonia R1 looks good, as does the Outdoor Research Soleil. I'll check out the other suggestions - keep 'em coming!
The Patagonia R1 looks good, as does the Outdoor Research Soleil. I'll check out the other suggestions - keep 'em coming!
In reply to galpinos:
there are more breathable "NanoPuff LIke" options, the Air and Atom LT and a couple of good hybrid jackets with fleece on the arms etc , I have a few fleeces as well as the lt and Nano and to be honest the fleeces hardly ever get a look in.
but yeah for lightness and breathability a fleece is a great thing, i still wear my old TNF glacier jumper whenever i can , a good bit of kit that i have thrashed for years and still holding up, i dont think my nano could take the same beating. I should get one of these R1 fleeces i have always liked the look of them, and i bet its bomb proof.
there are more breathable "NanoPuff LIke" options, the Air and Atom LT and a couple of good hybrid jackets with fleece on the arms etc , I have a few fleeces as well as the lt and Nano and to be honest the fleeces hardly ever get a look in.
but yeah for lightness and breathability a fleece is a great thing, i still wear my old TNF glacier jumper whenever i can , a good bit of kit that i have thrashed for years and still holding up, i dont think my nano could take the same beating. I should get one of these R1 fleeces i have always liked the look of them, and i bet its bomb proof.
Post edited at 14:58
In reply to Mr Fuller:
This does not match my experience with primaloft jackets, but obviously it does depend on how you use it / what you use it for. The weights are both about the same ( comparing micro fleece and 60g primaloft ) but the synthetic insulates better weight for weight and is also fairly windproof ( much more than a fleece ) and a lot more compressible.
I have an old Berghaus primaloft jacket still going strong after at least 15 years - but it is more vulnerable than a fleece. It has survived rock climbing, UK winter, several alpine seasons and refuses to die! I actually find mine very comfortable, no problems with the feel. Unless winter climbing or skiing I do not use a primaloft jacket under a hard shell. It usually goes over a softshell if things get chilly or I stop / belay for a while or goes over my hardshell if I am stopped / belay or the proverbial hits the fan.
For me a major feature is the ability to pop the jacket in its own pocket and clip it to my harness. However, they are a lot more expensive than a fleece!
After many years in different fleeces ( and I still occasionally use them ) I find the primaloft jackets better for my uses.
This does not match my experience with primaloft jackets, but obviously it does depend on how you use it / what you use it for. The weights are both about the same ( comparing micro fleece and 60g primaloft ) but the synthetic insulates better weight for weight and is also fairly windproof ( much more than a fleece ) and a lot more compressible.
I have an old Berghaus primaloft jacket still going strong after at least 15 years - but it is more vulnerable than a fleece. It has survived rock climbing, UK winter, several alpine seasons and refuses to die! I actually find mine very comfortable, no problems with the feel. Unless winter climbing or skiing I do not use a primaloft jacket under a hard shell. It usually goes over a softshell if things get chilly or I stop / belay for a while or goes over my hardshell if I am stopped / belay or the proverbial hits the fan.
For me a major feature is the ability to pop the jacket in its own pocket and clip it to my harness. However, they are a lot more expensive than a fleece!
After many years in different fleeces ( and I still occasionally use them ) I find the primaloft jackets better for my uses.
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In reply to Mr Fuller:
That's a good point, and going out in pouring rain when I expect to be wearing a hardshell most of the time is about the only situation these days where I'd prefer a fleece over a light insulated jacket.
> Synthetic jackets ... layer badly under waterproofs.
That's a good point, and going out in pouring rain when I expect to be wearing a hardshell most of the time is about the only situation these days where I'd prefer a fleece over a light insulated jacket.
In reply to AlanLittle:
If it's raining, you don't need a fleece nor puffy underneath the hardshell while on the move.
And if you sitting, well then having a puffy under the shell isn't a problem.
> That's a good point, and going out in pouring rain when I expect to be wearing a hardshell most of the time is about the only situation these days where I'd prefer a fleece over a light insulated jacket.
If it's raining, you don't need a fleece nor puffy underneath the hardshell while on the move.
And if you sitting, well then having a puffy under the shell isn't a problem.
In reply to Blue Yonder:
Hand knitted Fair Isle jumper. Warm due to the fact that each row has two strands of yarn in it. One is knitted into the pattern and the other is looped across the back. Lightweight and durable. If made in the traditional method with circular or 4-5 needles worn hems and elbows can be run picked and reknitted without taking the garment apart. Stays clean and doesn't get smelly with prolonged use.
Hand knitted Fair Isle jumper. Warm due to the fact that each row has two strands of yarn in it. One is knitted into the pattern and the other is looped across the back. Lightweight and durable. If made in the traditional method with circular or 4-5 needles worn hems and elbows can be run picked and reknitted without taking the garment apart. Stays clean and doesn't get smelly with prolonged use.
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In reply to Blue Yonder:
There's not much wrong with the old Berghaus Yukon zip neck fleece. You can get them for £30. I've had one for fifteen years, am not scared of ripping or losing it.( £170 patagucci my rim, would hang it up and look at it )
It's not waterproof, wind proof or particularly cool, but it is functional and you can shove it in a small stuff sack without losing its loft.
There's not much wrong with the old Berghaus Yukon zip neck fleece. You can get them for £30. I've had one for fifteen years, am not scared of ripping or losing it.( £170 patagucci my rim, would hang it up and look at it )
It's not waterproof, wind proof or particularly cool, but it is functional and you can shove it in a small stuff sack without losing its loft.
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In reply to Blue Yonder:
When contemplating a similar problem, I went for the Mountain Hardware Ghost Whisperer. Hood, full length zip, packs into one of its pockets, not too warm. I haven't used it that much yet, but worked great for a couple of days in Snowdonia doing multi pitch this week. You can also clip it to your harness.
Edit:- I shouldn't imagine these duvet light style jackets are much cop when wet compared to a fleece.
When contemplating a similar problem, I went for the Mountain Hardware Ghost Whisperer. Hood, full length zip, packs into one of its pockets, not too warm. I haven't used it that much yet, but worked great for a couple of days in Snowdonia doing multi pitch this week. You can also clip it to your harness.
Edit:- I shouldn't imagine these duvet light style jackets are much cop when wet compared to a fleece.
Post edited at 08:52
In reply to Mr Fuller:
Totally agree, I've reviewed a couple of hybrid midlayers and have got sweaty in both of them even when its very cold http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=4447 http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/the-jottnar-alfar-review.ht... I reckon they are quite specialist. Maybe the Patagonia air thingy is super breathable but I remain pretty sceptical that any can reach fleece breathability http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/marmot-isotherm-hoodypolart... . Any decent fitting microfleece I think remains a pretty central part of my outdoor kit. I like hooded ones but some don't. Any of them with the funky grid knit are even lighter for their warmth than a normal micro fleece. The OP should just get down to Decathlon and will surely find something for 25 quid which does the job excellently.
Totally agree, I've reviewed a couple of hybrid midlayers and have got sweaty in both of them even when its very cold http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=4447 http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/the-jottnar-alfar-review.ht... I reckon they are quite specialist. Maybe the Patagonia air thingy is super breathable but I remain pretty sceptical that any can reach fleece breathability http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/marmot-isotherm-hoodypolart... . Any decent fitting microfleece I think remains a pretty central part of my outdoor kit. I like hooded ones but some don't. Any of them with the funky grid knit are even lighter for their warmth than a normal micro fleece. The OP should just get down to Decathlon and will surely find something for 25 quid which does the job excellently.
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In reply to TobyA:
Toby, you just have to try the Nano Air. I was a bit sceptical at first and it took a little working out to get the right layers under (and sometimes over). Now I'm its biggest fan. Most of the time and across an incredible range of temperature you just stay comfortable and dry. Yet even when you overheat on some super strenuous pitch and soak your baselayer, five minutes later you are bone dry. As in dry as a bone. Forget the Alpha insulation bound in Pertex, the breathability of the Air with its gossamer shell is remarkable. It's halfway between fleece and Alpha, a million miles from primaloft, and bang on the sweet spot.
Two downsides: wets out more readily and rips more easily. So for winter and wet days, microgrid fleece still rules!!
Toby, you just have to try the Nano Air. I was a bit sceptical at first and it took a little working out to get the right layers under (and sometimes over). Now I'm its biggest fan. Most of the time and across an incredible range of temperature you just stay comfortable and dry. Yet even when you overheat on some super strenuous pitch and soak your baselayer, five minutes later you are bone dry. As in dry as a bone. Forget the Alpha insulation bound in Pertex, the breathability of the Air with its gossamer shell is remarkable. It's halfway between fleece and Alpha, a million miles from primaloft, and bang on the sweet spot.
Two downsides: wets out more readily and rips more easily. So for winter and wet days, microgrid fleece still rules!!
Post edited at 20:30
In reply to gd303uk:
Because you can pick a nice light fleece layer up for £10 or so, whereas the Nanopuff or similar is over £100! Not to mention that they're very different beasts.
Because you can pick a nice light fleece layer up for £10 or so, whereas the Nanopuff or similar is over £100! Not to mention that they're very different beasts.
In reply to TobyA:
I'd usually agree wholeheartedly, but the recent crop of 'high end' fleeces in Decathlon (e.g. the £25 Bionnassay 700 jacket) were badly designed if you're a climber. Good fabrics, well made, but awful armscye designs, so you get restricted arm movement and lots of hem and cuff pull. If they could get the design right, they would rival the R1.
The cheaper ones may be better.
OTOH, the Techwinter 500 thick base/light mid is brilliant, IMHO. If they added a hood to it, it would rival the lightweight powerdry offerings like the Montane Allez, or MEC T3.
> The OP should just get down to Decathlon and will surely find something for 25 quid which does the job excellently.
I'd usually agree wholeheartedly, but the recent crop of 'high end' fleeces in Decathlon (e.g. the £25 Bionnassay 700 jacket) were badly designed if you're a climber. Good fabrics, well made, but awful armscye designs, so you get restricted arm movement and lots of hem and cuff pull. If they could get the design right, they would rival the R1.
The cheaper ones may be better.
OTOH, the Techwinter 500 thick base/light mid is brilliant, IMHO. If they added a hood to it, it would rival the lightweight powerdry offerings like the Montane Allez, or MEC T3.
Post edited at 21:53
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In reply to captain paranoia:
and currently 11 quid! Might have to see if my local Decathlon has one of them.
And it looks like they do a hooded version youtube.com/watch?v=WGkhv3Q5tUs& but maybe just in France as it comes up in Euros.
> OTOH, the Techwinter 500 thick base/light mid is brilliant, IMHO. If they added a hood to it, it would rival the lightweight powerdry offerings like the Montane Allez, or MEC T3.
and currently 11 quid! Might have to see if my local Decathlon has one of them.
And it looks like they do a hooded version youtube.com/watch?v=WGkhv3Q5tUs& but maybe just in France as it comes up in Euros.
Post edited at 22:24
In reply to BnB:
I'll have to tell UKC HQ to get on it as I'm not going to buy one!
> Toby, you just have to try the Nano Air.
I'll have to tell UKC HQ to get on it as I'm not going to buy one!
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In reply to Blue Yonder:
I have found that the Rab baseline hoodie works well for warmer days. I use it for everything it has become my go to piece. I even wear it fell running and it breathes well. so if your looking for an active mid layer that on super colder days can even be worn as a baselayer
I have found that the Rab baseline hoodie works well for warmer days. I use it for everything it has become my go to piece. I even wear it fell running and it breathes well. so if your looking for an active mid layer that on super colder days can even be worn as a baselayer
In reply to TobyA:
http://www.decathlon.co.uk/techwinter-900-t-shirt-id_8282503.html
£33
Don't expect to see them in store at the moment; all moved to 'summer range'.
And the £11 500 shirts are only available in limited sizes. Full range in grey at £20, though. Don't forget you can order one in to your store with no obligation; at least, my local store has been happy to do that on three occasions.
> And it looks like they do a hooded version
http://www.decathlon.co.uk/techwinter-900-t-shirt-id_8282503.html
£33
Don't expect to see them in store at the moment; all moved to 'summer range'.
And the £11 500 shirts are only available in limited sizes. Full range in grey at £20, though. Don't forget you can order one in to your store with no obligation; at least, my local store has been happy to do that on three occasions.
In reply to BnB:
Can you comment on its maximum operating temperature - by which I mean there's T-shirt weather, and there's a few degrees colder than that where you don't want to just wear a t-shirt but most insulating outdoor gear will overheat you. Is the nano air still good in those sorts of temperatures or does it get too hot?
Can you comment on its maximum operating temperature - by which I mean there's T-shirt weather, and there's a few degrees colder than that where you don't want to just wear a t-shirt but most insulating outdoor gear will overheat you. Is the nano air still good in those sorts of temperatures or does it get too hot?
Post edited at 15:58
In reply to climbwhenready:
Given that this is a chilly summer, I've worn it for cragging and multipitch every single outing from March to June, bar the one occasion I was in full sun. You wouldn't want it on then, no way.
Ocasionally, you can work up a sweat on a strenuous pitch but it's simply incredible how dry you find yourself only a few minutes later. I wear it straight over a light, short sleeved base layer. Over a long sleeve would be uncomfortable.
I managed to put a small tear in the elbow of mine with a nasty slip (on ice) on its very first outing. I thought it wouldn't last a month but in fact since then it's stood up remarkably well to jamming and the odd offwidth.
Given that this is a chilly summer, I've worn it for cragging and multipitch every single outing from March to June, bar the one occasion I was in full sun. You wouldn't want it on then, no way.
Ocasionally, you can work up a sweat on a strenuous pitch but it's simply incredible how dry you find yourself only a few minutes later. I wear it straight over a light, short sleeved base layer. Over a long sleeve would be uncomfortable.
I managed to put a small tear in the elbow of mine with a nasty slip (on ice) on its very first outing. I thought it wouldn't last a month but in fact since then it's stood up remarkably well to jamming and the odd offwidth.
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