UKC

NEWSFLASH: Divided Years (E8/9) Ground Up - McHaffie & Pasquill

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 UKC News 23 Jun 2015
Ryan on Divided Years, 4 kbDMM have just tweeted that both James McHaffie and Ryan Pasquill have yesterday managed ground-up repeats of the famous John Dunne route of Divided Years (E8/9) at the Buzzard's Roost in Northern Ireland.

Both climbers had tried the line the day previously, coming close, and returned the following day to finish off the line watched by local hard climber Ricky Bell.

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=69801

In reply to UKC News:

Nice one Caff and Ryan!
 Webster 23 Jun 2015
In reply to UKC News:

not to criticise but just wondering, how is it ground up if the gear is already in? do they pull the ropes but leave the gear in after each attempt?
1
 Skyfall 23 Jun 2015
In reply to UKC News:

Who's led this since JD other than James and Ryan? Do I recall that Dave Birkett has done it and I would assume Ricky Bell has also done it. Anyone else?
 Niall_li 23 Jun 2015
In reply to Skyfall:

Ricky Bell and Eddie Barbour both have ascents

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=44788
 Niall_li 23 Jun 2015
In reply to UKC News:

From the pic in the article i'm assuming it was done on pre-placed runners rather than placed on lead?
 Wft 23 Jun 2015
In reply to Webster:

> not to criticise but just wondering, how is it ground up if the gear is already in? do they pull the ropes but leave the gear in after each attempt?

Yes that's right. Someone goes up on the initial onsight go, falls off, they pull the ropes and the next climber goes up. They then fall off, maybe a bit higher, lower off and they pull the ropes. Repeat this process until summit ridge is gained and medals are presented in local bar.

This is how a lot of people go cragging and that's what happened here. They could have abbed the line and stripped the gear each time, that would've been a better style of ascent but it would have taken forrrreevvvveerrrrrrr and not much fun.

Great effort by both, espcially so for Ryan as he's been nursing a fractured rib for weeks now.


 GrahamD 23 Jun 2015
In reply to GuyVG:

Interesting. I had sort of assumed that ground up meant combined up/down tactics until the route had been sorted, then it got led 'cleanly' afterwards. Live and learn.
 GrahamD 23 Jun 2015
In reply to UKC News:

Any pictures you ever see of Divided Years it looks such a brilliant location and line.
 Bulls Crack 23 Jun 2015
In reply to Webster:

Think of it as incremental yo-yoing!
 Niall_li 23 Jun 2015
In reply to GuyVG:

Interesting! I was never entirely sure what ground up meant before
 abarro81 23 Jun 2015
In reply to GuyVG:

> They could have abbed the line and stripped the gear each time, that would've been a better style of ascent but it would have taken forrrreevvvveerrrrrrr and not much fun.

They'd need a lackey to do the abb each time so as not to blow he ground up really too. F that faff.

 Michael Gordon 23 Jun 2015
In reply to GrahamD:

> Interesting. I had sort of assumed that ground up meant combined up/down tactics until the route had been sorted, then it got led 'cleanly' afterwards. Live and learn.

If I understand you correctly, technically that would be a headpoint but with the route worked on lead rather than toprope.
 Fraser 24 Jun 2015
In reply to Niall_li:

> Interesting! I was never entirely sure what ground up meant before

I think sometimes people trying a route ground-up do strip the gear again before each fresh attempt.
In reply to Fraser:

> I think sometimes people trying a route ground-up do strip the gear again before each fresh attempt.

It wouldn't be ground up then...

Clue is in the name. You'd have to go in from the top to strip the gear and the ascent wouldn't be from the ground upwards then.

 Fraser 24 Jun 2015
In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:
Well, the climbing part would be! ...or someone else strips it. I'm fairly sure I've heard of a G-U ascent being done this way.

Edit: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=601454

Some previous thought on the subject.
Post edited at 10:05
John Dunne 24 Jun 2015
In reply to UKC News:

Great effort guys good to see both actually out doing the real thing
 ColmShannon88 24 Jun 2015
In reply to Bulls Crack:

> Think of it as incremental yo-yoing!

Not really. Yo-yo - rope stays in. Ground up - rope gets pulled.
 Michael Gordon 24 Jun 2015
In reply to Fraser:

Yes, that's the strict form of ground-up (but hardly anyone does it)
 Ee 25 Jun 2015
In reply to UKC News: Didn't Dave McLeod do this a few years ago ??
Ee
 Fraser 25 Jun 2015
In reply to Ee:

See post @ 13:10 on Tuesday.
Tom Knowles 26 Jun 2015
In reply to Ee:

Maybe I'm just not getting this, but these guys did the route with pre-placed gear, right? And this is a major news item? Almost a decade ago, Dave MacLeod ran up the route placing all the gear on lead. This is nothing but a step backwards.

This is what Dave said in his post about the route back in 2006:

"For me, if the gear is pre-placed then it might as well be bolted."

Couldn't agree more.
2
 AlanLittle 26 Jun 2015
In reply to Tom Knowles:

If you actually read Dave Mac's blog post, then you know that he headpointed it placing gear on the lead after practice.

Caff & Co did it ground up with some gear in place.

So you still have a shot at the first flawless onsight. I look forward to the news item.
 Wft 26 Jun 2015
In reply to Tom Knowles:

Tom, apologies if you do but do you understand the concept of ground-up in a modern context? The gear is put in up to a high-point on each attempt on lead, not pre-placed on abseil prior to an ascent which is the practise Dave Mac is referring to. Yes this makes it easier as they are not placing gear up to said high point on subsequent goes, however the fact that beyond this point they are back climbing without knowledge of the moves above increases the difficulty massively I would assume (I don't know the route well enough).

Just want to make clear the distinction between non-strict (i.e. normal) ground-up technique and the act of pre-placing gear before an ascent.

Whether or not a quick headpoint is better or worse than ground up depends upon the route but it looks really fun swapping leads with your mate trying to get it first. Aslong as the rock/placements aren't getting battered I think it's right on.

Tom Knowles 26 Jun 2015
In reply to GuyVG:

Sure, I understand what you're saying and I bet it was a lot of fun for the guys involved. My issue is really with the reporting by UKC (again!) - the NEWSFLASH headline for an ascent that's essentially no better than that made a decade ago.
6
 Wft 26 Jun 2015
In reply to Tom Knowles:

> an ascent that's essentially no better than that made a decade ago.

I have to disagree with this, going ground-up on this route is an improvement in style that should be reported and applauded in my opinion.
 malx 26 Jun 2015
In reply to Tom Knowles:
Most people would consider ground up to be a better style than headpoint, regardless of the gear arrangements. The only point where it becomes a bit confused is when fragile gear placements get ragged from multiple falls, but that is very unlikely on granite.
Post edited at 10:52

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