UKC

Since the 1970s La Sportiva has been at the forefront of innovation. With the introduction of the Speedster and "No Edge" technology developed by climbing shoe specialist Pietro Dal Pra, La Sportiva eliminated the classic "edges" which the climber had relied on over the years and provided a unique approach to climbing footwear.

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=7443

In reply to UKC Articles:

Great marketing and no doubt a terrific shoe. However I can think of another reason why the uptake is slow. At over £100 for a product that will be completely shagged in just 3 or 4 months by any keen climber I'm not surprised that people are slow to embrace these shoes, particularly when you can get something almost as good for half the price. And if they're really not so good for trad then that's about 90% of climbers in this country ruled out for a start (though I'd question whether the type of protection a route uses has any bearing on the most suitable shoe.)

If the 'no edge technology?' (Yuk! horrible marketing cliché! - what you really mean is design) is really that good it will only be a matter of time before other manufacturers follow suit as they always do and probably at a much more affordable price. (Quechua hope you're paying attention!)

In reply to stp:


Sportiva are probably hoping climber keen enough to buy these will have commensurately skilled footwork. And there aren't many technical shoes less than £100 these days


I wondered about that too - I suppose trad routes would tend less towards overhanging than sport routes, with more weight going on the feet, so stiffer shoes might be preferable

In reply to stp:

I've been swithering about buying a pair of these fora while now, but have entered the comp so will wait till the winner's announced...then buy a pair! I spoke to Gresham at Ratho a while back just after the Futuras came out and he was raving about them. (the cynics amongst us might say "well, he would, wouldn't he"?) but I was convinced.

If I could try a pair on somewhere locally, to check the sizing, I'd definitely give them a shot. As it is, I'll probably have to resort to getting them mail-order, on spec.

And I'm sure they'll last more than 3-4 months, despite what you say. All my other Sportivas have lasted at least a year or so, with regular use.

In reply to stp:


Show me something as good for £60 then!

In reply to Fraser:

Has anyone worked out what the difference between "no edge technology" and "worn in" is yet?

In reply to UKC Articles:

my last pair of futuras lasted 2 years of use (admittedly I saved them for harder climbs i.e. after warming up in other shoes) but still using quite regularly. I find the double wrap of rubber on the toe point means they have more rubber where you normally get most wear and would get a hole.

They way they are made definitely makes them different to worn in other shoes. They took a while to get used to placing your feet on small edges but once you do they are amazing.

but above all the no edge stuff, they fit my feet like a glove (or sock?!) and ultimately that matters more than anything else with shoes IMO.

In reply to Wicamoi:

No edge is just that, whereas a 'worn in' pair of shoes are generally baggier with less fit and shape, which you need for decent performance. The no edge condition gives you a pair of shoes that are already "bedded in", which you'd usually have to do yourself by climbing in them for a while, during which time, the fit is compromised as a result. That's my understanding anyway - happy to be corrected.

In reply to Fraser:

I've just got a pair through the post and will be writing a review of them over the coming months.

First impressions are that they do, indeed, feel different to any rock shoe I've ever tried (and I'm not just saying that!!). Kind of like a sticky rubber sock, very soft and actually remarkably comfy - particularly for a super technical shoe (something I usually associate with agony). Furthermore, they are nice and sensitive out of the box, I didn't feel like they needed the usual period of wearing in that other boots require which was quite refreshing/unusual.

That said - and I know this might seem obvious - they are obviously a specialist shoe focussed on performance bouldering and sport climbing. Having just got back from a week away in Fairhead I couldn't see myself wearing them on the long trad pitches out there, your toes would be agony by the end!!

With regards to the no-edge design/technology, all I can say is that they climb well so far. I'm as cynical as the next person when it comes to marketing lingo/chat, so don't worry - I'll keep you posted (after I've done more than two routes in them)!

p.s. it's worth mentioning that I haven't actually succeeded on either of the two routes I've been trying in them, with their futuristic design I was - at the very least - expecting to jump a grade or two

In reply to Fraser:

Thanks for the rationale. I have moved from 94% to 91% unconvinced. Seems to me that edges will sometimes be better and sometimes worse than no-edges, depending on hold shape - the diagrams provided by la Sportiva in the link do not cover a full range of options, nor do they admit to deformation. I will await further reports with interest though.

In reply to UKC Articles:

Some interesting thoughts here and some good responses. La Sportiva have just released a video which explains no edge a bit further and perhaps explains the difference between worn in shoes and no edge a bit more...

youtube.com/watch?v=23LS9DIesCM& Skip through the first bit to around 1m37s in.

We should have a range of Genius in several sizes in our demo pool from late this season touring around climbing walls with the other LS models, Futura, Miura, etc, etc.

We also have a bit more info on our website along with a video from LS shoe designer Pietro Dal Pra explaining no edge as used on the Speedster.

http://www.lyon.co.uk/outdoor/lyon-support/advice-knowledge/157-what-is-la-...

Looking forward to Rob's review

In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:

You missed one word almost. I'm in no doubt the more expensive shoes perform better. If they didn't very few people would buy them.

I just question whether the big increase in cost (roughly double) is worth it particularly when rock shoes tend to wear out so quickly. They may, on rare occasions, allow you to use a different foothold and make a sequence slightly easier. But generally when people relay beta to one another of a hard sequence it seems to me everyone can use the same footholds despite wearing different boots. When people do use different beta is more far more likely to be down to strength or height/reach than footwear.

One exception to that I've noticed is with heel-hooking. There does tend to be a big difference in shoes ability to heel hook, and even expensive shoes can sometimes have really crap heels. Slippers tend to be bad. Also some types of climbing a stiffer boot can really help.

If, and its a very big if, I were to fail on the occasional route because of my shoes then so what? I think I'd still rather save myself £200 per year. I'd probably never know anyway and I still enjoy my climbing just as much. That's because if you choose the right cheaper shoes with a good fit then they can still perform to a very high standard.

In reply to stp:

So show me something almost as good for roughly half the price.

In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:

https://shop.epictv.com/en/climbing-shoes/la-sportiva/testarossa-2015

And you get the gaudy color scheme as well

In reply to Mr Lopez:

On that site it's Genius for £83 and your link for £63. Not really half the price!

In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:

You are right. Bargain!

In reply to stp:


I'm really curious to know how long your shoes last, on average, to say you'd generate a saving of £200 p.a. by buying a cheaper model. Mine probably last about 2 years, although that's rotating between 2 or 3 pairs which I have on the go at any one time, so say that's about the equivalent of 6-8 months constant use, if it were just the one pair being used.

In reply to UKC Articles:
I've recently started wearing a pair of Futuras (the no-edge velcro / slipper) for a project at Kilnsey (steep limestone) and have been impressed. I had a particular move where my Muira VSs prematurely slid off a tiny downwards sloping edge (the vague thumb catch of a previous handhold) almost every time on lead attempts, and were pretty unreliable at sticking even when repeatedly trying the move on the rope - with my body set-up in an artificially stable position.

The Futuras straight from the box have stuck on that foothold every time (well, one slip in around 20 tries - and that was when I was tired). I cannot determine whether it is the different rubber (XS-grip vs XS-edge) or the no-edge design that is mainly responsible, but I am just happy to not have to spend weeks wearing-in a new pair of Muira VSs to optimum condition.

One thing I have noticed with the Futuras that I think I can attribute (at least partly) to the no-edge design, is that although they look and feel less pointy and precise than a fresh pair of normal, performance asymmetric shoes (Muiras, Katana lace-up, high-end Scarpa etc), it does not seem to matter. You can just paste the slightly disconcertingly blunt toe at the correct general area and get away with it. The bluntness seems to help as any imprecision becomes a matter of degrees out from off perfect contact, rather than a more binary "edge is on utterly correct" or "you're off!". The move I mentioned above in my Muiras required incredible pains to be millimetrically precise with the placement of both feet and how I transferred my body-weight throughout the next move (a high-foot rockover) to avoid slippage. With the Futuras, I have gone into the move knowing my feet are "out", and yet completed the move. I still think I would want a fresh pair of normal edged shoes for some circumstances (routes at Malham with lots of tiny but positive edges for feet), but where the feet are more smeary and slopey (tiny scoops and dishes etc) I am for now a convert (still have to see how durable they are).

In reply to Fraser:


Well I use several pairs at the same time but I reckon it averages out at 3 - 4 months, were I to use one pair only.

In an interview on here Adam Ondra said he uses 12 pairs of boots per year. It just depends how much you climb, and perhaps to a lesser degree what kind of rock you climb on.

In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:


I use some Simond slippers which cost £50. Very precise in the toe and good for smeary stuff and general use.The lack of stiffness means they're not so good for very small holds and being slippers they're poor for heel hooking. I also use some Quechua velcros for £54. I bought these on the large size as I wanted comfort for longer indoor bouldering sessions. Not used outside and not really intending to but they seem pretty good overall. I also have a pair of Evolve velcros (sorry I've no idea of the model name). These were on offer for £60 and fit my feet really well. They're a bit stiffer and work well on small holds like at Malham. I also picked up a pair of Scarpa Vapours recently in last years colours for £55. Not used these yet but friends who use them rate them highly.

So long as you get a decent fit I think these cheaper models are perfectly adequate for the majority of routes. The only time I find my boots are letting me down is when they're worn out and you can't stand on small edges, and that's true of both cheap and pricey shoes.