UKC

Hi folks,
Myself and some mates are hoping to climb the Old Man of Stoer next month and I'm wondering what length of rope I will need to set the tyrolean up. Would 20m do it? Also is there any fixed gear to clip the rope in to at the base of the stack or should I plan on taking some gear when I go across?
I'm thinking of using a length of static, leaving it in place while we climb and then stripping it and swimming back to avoid leaving any unsightly old rope strung across if possible.
I know a boulder hop is possible from the right at certain times but I'm guessing I wont be that lucky.
Thanks in advance.
MiB

In reply to maninblack:

20m will do if you only suspend one line, but this will leave you with no backup.

There is a peg at the bottom of the stack you can use to secure the Tyrolean, you can retrieve a single line easily enough by looping the rope through the peg and clipping it back to the rope with a crab. When you come back over, tie your climbing rope to the crab and pull it back with you. No swim back required.

In reply to maninblack:

Get Dave to swim across with the end of the rope and thread through peg and tat on the stack. Dave then swims back & you tension the rope.

At the end of the day no swimming is required, but you need more than 20m of rope. We used a dynamic rope with no problem.

I think most parties will have a Dave.

In reply to maninblack:

PS, do everything you can to avoid making the swim in high tide. It's f**king terrifying.

In reply to lowersharpnose:

Dave could also do it for any other teams on the stack that day. Good times!

In reply to maninblack:

Make sure the anchors are bomb proof. We had an anchor fail on a tyrolean in Orkney last year. We got away fairly unscathed but it could have been horrific, look after yourselves and have a great time!

In reply to planetmarshall:

Excellent advice. Expanding on this advice, if crossing at low tide, tension your Tyrolean for high tide waters. Otherwise you end up in the water. The swell in the channel was quite big when we made this error...

In reply to maninblack:

We crossed in a little inflatable dinghy ( http://www.gloomy-place.net/photo/showimg.php?file=/Climbing/Stoer/IMG_0739... ) to set up the tyrollean and then came back on the tyrollean. Which was just as well because the tidy had risen and the sea was up on the way back, I wouldn't have wanted to go back in the dinghy particularly as we'd not bothered to bring oars.
The inflatable was a bit of a pain on the walk from the car to the cliff as it was heavier than you might expect.

I can't remember exactly what we did regarding ropes but we definitely used more than a 20m rope.

In reply to maninblack:

We had a 50m static doubled -- anchors on the landward side OK, bit trickier on the Old-man side but there were some pegs and nuts in a crack. I think there is also a reasonable cam placement up left from the little stance.

Went over first time (the boulder hop) at low tide - so pretty easy -- but water much higher on way back and sag of tyrolean got us rather wet.

we took jumars with us on the second time I tried it -- made the crossing back much quicker rather than having to haul ourselves up the last bit.

We were told that you can abb off in one go with 50m ropes -- I was OK but my much lighter girlfriend ended up suspended about 1 foot off the deck (knots in abseil rope preventing further progress) so she had to climb out of her harness!

In reply to planetmarshall:


Also if there is a sea running and waves beaking over the LH end - see my profile pics! The worst thing is being scraped against the barnacles on the rock. When I did it there was a 2m swell.

I'd come prepared with some gear in case any in situ stuff has corroded or been washed away. Also take a long ab slings unless you are prepared to trust the in situ tat at the top and in the "cave"

My name isn't Dave BTW

In reply to maninblack:

You can make a tyrolean at the North (original route) or south end of the stack. If you go for the south end like I did, then you will miss the first (crux) pitch of the original route. The north end is more sheltered from the prevailing sea conditions though. I found that it required a significant length of rope to make sure of a dry crossing in all states of the tide. I had a 75m semi-static looped through some pegs on the stack, for easy retrieval on the return journey (as others have mentioned). These were backed up with a piece I added, which was also removed on the return journey. Use non-spikey gear to tension your tyrolean, otherwise you may damage your rope. Something that my dad suggested that worked really well, was after abseiling down from the top of the stack, take the ends of your rope across the tyrolean to the mainland before pulling. In that way, they fall well clear of the stack and there is no risk of them snagging on the way down. They will get soaked though, but I feel this is inevitable on such a venture. I was also shredded by barnacles one year, but this can be easily avoided by adding wet shoes and gloves to your extremities. I also used a winter wetsuit, which was great when you're in the water but hot as hell when you weren't. TR as follows:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=3889

I was aloud to do the swimming bit as my middle name is Dave, have a good one

In reply to planetmarshall:

Thanks, good idea!

In reply to sparkass:

Yeah, I'm not really a fan of single piece anchors

In reply to Mark Collins:

Did something similar to you. I think the original first pitch was climbed because the FA party used a ladder to get across.

Other points.
Check for sharks and jelly fish before you doggy paddle across.

You can only back up stack side anchors for journey to not from the stack.
We did one short ab down, then about a 40m ab to gain the fixed rope and tension across to shore. This meant no gear abandoned on the stack and the stack side of the tyroleon anchor was not stressed after the route.

So, one swim, one transfer of clothes/ towel and one tyrolean ( possible wet bum).
2*50m climbing ropes, 1*50m static/old rope, 1 tow line ( 15-20 m? )

In reply to Trangia:

Thanks, I'm now minded to go over with a bit of kit and some cord , will 60m halfs get us down in one or is it best to take an intermediate ab to get back to the base of the tyrolean?

In reply to maninblack:

We were climbing on 50m 10mm ropes and broke the ab at the cave. I'm not certain if 60m would get you down. It was just more comfotable to do it in 2 abs and also gave us more photo opportunities.

If you fix the Tyrolean up where you see it in my photos you will do the first traverse pitch. It's by far the hardest moves on the route and was slimey. Both leader and second need to be comfortable at the grade as a fall will put you back into the sea! The alternative is to head for the ledge at the left hand end and skip the traverse. This may not be possible in a high tide, as we found with waves breaking over the ledge.

If you've got a wetsuit, use it. I didn't have one and got very cold on the swim. A wetsuit will also protect you more from the barnacles!

Also if the sea is rough wear a life jacket - I got knackered trying to battle against the swell and was glad of it.

Good luck! It's an iconic route.

In reply to maninblack:

50m are a bit short from the very top to the start of the Tyrolean. 55m should work and 60m will definitely get into the sea.

In reply to maninblack:

60m will get you down in a single abseil. For the swim, bring a wetsuit and life jacket plus some shoes (crocs or similar), and wear a helmet. You'll be glad of the kit if the channel is as fierce as when I did it.

https://goo.gl/photos/SGyJKvSyB3MermCk7

Enjoy.

In reply to maninblack:

Decent to sea level scary. Tyrolean was in place when we did it 2 or 3 years back. Went across at low tide. Landward end solid, stack side very manky cluster of dead and dying pegs nuts and rust. 60m single ab from top no problems. Tide now in, 1ft square of wave washed rock to stand on and tyrolean swim ensued. Nobody has mentioned don't cross with the rack attached to you. If you end up in the water you aren't swimming, just sinking. Pull it across on another rope. Enjoy.

In reply to philhilo:

Thanks phil. And a big thank you to everyone for the tips and advice.
MiB