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US Red traffic lights

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I recently drove for the first time in California and it took me a while to get used to the Red light ettiquette. On many right turn traffic lights with filters it is acceptable to pass a red light if the road is clear. It seemed to work well and I didn't get caught out. There are clear signs on those junctions where it doesn't apply.
Back home it now makes me wonder as I sit at a Left filter Red light with no other traffic whether it would work over here.
Any thoughts?
 The New NickB 06 Jul 2015
In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

It's not great for pedestrians. Which kind of works in the US, where walking is pretty much seen as socially unacceptable.
2
 Offwidth 06 Jul 2015
In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

A few points: US drivers tend to be a lot more courteous than UK drivers; the feature is most useful on their multi-lane junctions on grid based wide city roads where the road layout can assist feeding in; in the UK we already have a big enough problem seeing bikes... this wouldnt help.
In reply to The New NickB:

One thing I did note is that in smaller towns in California the respect for pedestrians was very high (Drummed into me by my coach for the trip) even in San Francisco it seemed good but the short time I spent in New York suggested it was very different there!
In reply to The New NickB:
Actually the opposite is true. Drivers are generally much more courteous to pedestrians in the US - which is why the turn on red works very well most of the time.

new york drivers are different for sure - and of course no right turn on red in NYC
Post edited at 10:48
 ThunderCat 06 Jul 2015
In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

Although I knew in advance about the 'ok to turn right through a red if it's clear rule', it still took me a while to get used to it when we visited the states, even when there was someone behind me honking.






 MG 06 Jul 2015
In reply to keith-ratcliffe:
Yes, this seems to generally true. I have been surprised by traffic stopping voluntarily for me on multi-lane roads when I have want to cross by foot in small towns. The anti-pedestrian thing is more a consequence of the design feature of many roads than the attitude of drivers in the US. OTOH make sure you cross perpendicular and don't cross when a red man is illuminated or the police may take an interest.
Post edited at 10:50
 The New NickB 06 Jul 2015
In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

California is quite different to the rest of the US.
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 The New NickB 06 Jul 2015
In reply to Jonathan Lagoe - UKC:
> Actually the opposite is true. Drivers are generally much more courteous to pedestrians in the US - which is why the turn on red works very well most of the time.

Not my experience in US cities and suburbs, I've not been to New York. Small town America is generally different.

I find Jaywalking to be the most silly crime imaginable. It's high up on my list of reasons why I couldn't live in the US.
Post edited at 10:53
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 illepo 06 Jul 2015
In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

I'd fully support any such changes. i find traffic lights to be very inefficient.
 krikoman 06 Jul 2015
In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

I like the idea.

Recently a major set of lights in our town failed, it's always a nightmare at rush hour, with the lights not working the whole thing was much much better. It makes you wonder why "those in charge" didn't see the difference and do something about it.
 hamsforlegs 06 Jul 2015
In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

Seems to work really well in small town USA and Canada.

I lived in Vancouver for a couple of years which illustrated the problems in busier spots. On the North Shore, which is a bit like a large village in it's scale/density, it generally works fine because the human and motorised traffic is not too bad, so people have time/space to think and to be courteous. Bigger roads would have a 'no right on red' policy to avoid aggro. In the downtown core, things didn't work at all. Because there is no clear slot for pedestrians to cross in the traffic cycle, there would be a constant tense standoff between cars trying to squeeze rightward and pedestrians flooding across the road. This was repeated about every 200m at every intersection on the grid. I've no idea whether it caused accidents, but it certainly made life more difficult for everyone.

My feeling is that so much of the UK is crowded and busy that it would be difficult to implement without causing more problems than were solved.

That said, krikoman's experience is interesting and I do wonder whether it would be better to simply remove traffic management from some junctions. Probably not feasible at eg. Hanger Lane Gyratory though...

 wintertree 06 Jul 2015
In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

It's great over there from a traffic viewpoint, but we have - in proportion - fewer and shorter filter lanes here, reducing the benefit.

It sucks over there as a pedestrian not used to it. Their pedestrians seem to cope, but we'd need a serious public education effort if we brought it in.
Post edited at 12:09
 gethin_allen 06 Jul 2015
In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

You see a similar thing in many places in Europe, there is often a small orange flashing light to indicate that you are allowed to turn but should give way to pedestrians.
It is a bit disconcerting at first but you get used to id.
 gethin_allen 06 Jul 2015
In reply to The New NickB:

> I find Jaywalking to be the most silly crime imaginable. It's high up on my list of reasons why I couldn't live in the US.

This isn't isolated to the USA, in Warsaw tourists are warned to only cross with the green man if there is a crossing available because the police like nothing more than fining foreigners for crossing in the wrong place.

The Germans get pretty annoyed at pedestrians crossing in random places too, and you're likely to get abuse from others if you decide to ignore the lights especially when children are present.
 MonkeyPuzzle 06 Jul 2015
In reply to gethin_allen:

> The Germans get pretty annoyed at pedestrians crossing in random places too, and you're likely to get abuse from others if you decide to ignore the lights especially when children are present.

Very true. My brother and I got heckled in Berlin for crossing a totally traffic-free street in the wee hours of the morning. I felt like a right pillock waiting for the green man to come on when no cars were even in sight.
Rigid Raider 06 Jul 2015
In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

Google the traffic robots of Kinshasa for a giggle.
 The New NickB 06 Jul 2015
In reply to gethin_allen:

Maybe that's where it comes from, it's easy to forget that the US's German roots are just as strong as the more famous Italian, Irish, English, French roots.
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 yorkshireman 06 Jul 2015
In reply to The New NickB:

> Maybe that's where it comes from, it's easy to forget that the US's German roots are just as strong as the more famous Italian, Irish, English, French roots.

Apparently it came from the auto industry trying to shift the blame for cars killing pedestrians to the victims.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26073797

As others have said, just because something works in the US, doesn't mean its appropriate in the UK. My experience as a pedestrian in American cities has largely been poor compared to European standards (Atlanta probably the worst, Portland almost civilised) and I certainly wouldn't want to strive to emulate that. Especially when you see that they have a road fatality rate several times that of the UK (around 35,000 people killed a year - which is mind boggling really).

That said, I think too many car drivers see green as a go and red as stop (usually) and switch off some of their personal responsibility. When you allow turning right if clear, you force (hopefully) the driver to take a more active role in checking their surroundings, rather than just coasting through because it's green. Its similar logic to removing road markings etc in shared use streets.
1
Andy Gamisou 07 Jul 2015
In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

> Very true. My brother and I got heckled in Berlin for crossing a totally traffic-free street in the wee hours of the morning. I felt like a right pillock waiting for the green man to come on when no cars were even in sight.empty

Yup. Once in Oberhausen at around 11:30 at night followed a group of neo Nazis resplendent in their bovver gear, complete with swastika tattoos and doc Martin's, shedding empty cans of bear and discarding half consumed big Macs into the street with gay abandon. When they (and me) encountered a small and devoid of traffic street crossing they stopped at the red sign. When I sailed across without waiting for the green light my German understanding was just good enough to recognise that my faux pas liable to earn me a good head kicking.
 birdie num num 07 Jul 2015
In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

It does work over here
In reply to krikoman:

This happened in Blairgowrie recently and they have switched off the town centre lights after finding that it flowed more freely.

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