UKC

COMPETITION: Win a SALEWA Ergo Belay System

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
 UKC Articles 07 Jul 2015
SALEWA Ergo Belay System, 2 kbSome things, like safety, are best left out of your hands. The Ergo Belay System, does just that, removing the need to swop hands or take one off the rope to pay it out. Thanks to its unique ergonomic design and grip, the braking hand never has to leave its position on the Ergo Belay System – whether paying-out or taking-in the rope.


Read more
 kyaizawa 07 Jul 2015
In reply to UKC Articles:

I'm getting a message that apparently the comp is now closed?? Assume this is a tech error...
In reply to kyaizawa:

> I'm getting a message that apparently the comp is now closed?? Assume this is a tech error...

Sorry, technical glitch. Now sorted. Force refresh if you are still getting comp closed.

Alan
 jimtitt 07 Jul 2015
In reply to UKC Articles:

> Thanks to its unique ergonomic design and grip, the braking hand never has to leave its position on the Ergo Belay System – whether paying-out or taking-in the rope.

Why do the belayer´s hands leave the device completely when taking in the rope?

 climbwhenready 07 Jul 2015
In reply to jimtitt:

The belaying in those videos makes me really uncomfortable. So you have to trust the autolocking because you don't normally hold the rope (including when paying out, in the lower video) ? And you also hold the device in it's "unlocked" configuration when paying out slack?

Ouch.
2
 TobyA 07 Jul 2015
In reply to climbwhenready:

> The belaying in those videos makes me really uncomfortable.

It looks the same action as belaying with a Megajul which is really easy to use. I wouldn't worry about it. If you don't think you'd be happy using one, don't enter the comp!

 climbwhenready 07 Jul 2015
In reply to TobyA:

> If you don't think you'd be happy using one, don't enter the comp!

I'm not

I've never used a Megajul so I accept I'm not coming from a position of expertise.

 Dandan 07 Jul 2015
In reply to UKC Articles:

Firstly, isn't that just a Mammut Smart device with a facelift? Which part of that facelift makes it cost twice as much as a Smart device?

Secondly, rightly or wrongly, i'd get kicked out of my local wall if I took in slack like that, the one thing that was drummed into me when I learned to climb was "don't let go of the dead rope", it's a pretty failsafe way of not dropping someone, regardless of the belay device.

In fact I will go for a thirdly too, the marketing bumf says " the braking hand never has to leave its position on the Ergo Belay System" even though he clearly moves his hand away when taking in slack?

I'm not so much complaining (although i'm doing a passable impression of it, I admit) as genuinely confused, what is unique about it, why is it so expensive and should you really take in slack like that on a friction locking device?
 jimtitt 07 Jul 2015
In reply to climbwhenready:

> The belaying in those videos makes me really uncomfortable. So you have to trust the autolocking because you don't normally hold the rope (including when paying out, in the lower video) ? And you also hold the device in it's "unlocked" configuration when paying out slack?

> Ouch.

Well that´s all pretty standard with this kind of device, it´s the same as the Smart and plenty of others. The advertising blurb is just that , "blurb". I doubt it´s any better (or worse) than the competition so I won´t be rushing out to buy one
 TobyA 07 Jul 2015
In reply to Dandan:

> Secondly, rightly or wrongly, i'd get kicked out of my local wall if I took in slack like that,

Why? I've rewatched the videos and still don't get what you see as so wrong? BTW, what price are they? Couldn't see it on the page... cheaper than a grigri?
 James Oakes 07 Jul 2015
In reply to UKC Articles:

The phrase "belay system" makes me feel uncomfortable..
 kyaizawa 07 Jul 2015
In reply to TobyA:

70 euros/55 GBP rrp I think, makes it more expensive than a Mammut Smart, comparable to the CTech Click Up and less than the Petzl GriGri 2, Trango Cinch or Camp Matik.
 andrewmc 08 Jul 2015
In reply to TobyA:

> It looks the same action as belaying with a Megajul which is really easy to use. I wouldn't worry about it. If you don't think you'd be happy using one, don't enter the comp!

That's not how I use my MegaJul.

I take in slack traditionally and I thought this was the approved method? (unless I am using double ropes and being a bit lazy and just adjusting a little bit).

When giving slack I usually don't use the handle at all. On a friends double ropes the other day I had to (not sure why), but I keep a much better grip around the brake rope and just use the thumb to release the device; I believe it would still override my thumb and catch in a fall.

As a MegaJul user, that video also scares me!
 TobyA 08 Jul 2015
In reply to andrewmcleod:

> As a MegaJul user, that video also scares me!

Why? I'm still confused as to what is so wrong.

My thought about the megajul was just that when giving slack quickly I've found you often need to use the thumb loop to stop it from jamming, and it seems very similar with this device.
 andrewmc 08 Jul 2015
In reply to TobyA:
In the lower video in the giving slack it looks like he has basically completely let go of the rope (~1:00). I always keep a few fingers wrapped around the rope so I can't lose it. On further careful examination it is not quite as bad as it looks.

In the taking in part while I generally try not to slide my hand up the rope, I do occasionally do it with double ropes when it is easier for small adjustments. But I always keep my hand wrapped around the rope(s) so I can't accidentally drop/fumble it. In the video he has a very open hand and could easily fumble the rope.

Salewa must be extremely confident about the locking abilities of their device; Edelrid have always been fairly careful not to officially endorse the MegaJul as a locking device (even recommending not to use the locking method for abseiling) even though it can (on certain ropes!) be extremely reliable (which catches you out when you try it on a skinny single and suddenly it doesn't work...).

All that said, there is presumably no reason you couldn't belay 'normally' with the Ergo other than potentially unlocking it for giving slack (which does not require you to let go of the rope).

Incidentally is this method considered acceptable for a grigri?
Post edited at 17:49
 Neil Williams 08 Jul 2015
In reply to andrewmcleod:
As a user of anything that video scares me. There is no reason with any device to leave the dead rope without a hand holding it firmly while taking in. Even if the device is meant to lock, it's an extra piece of safety. As for paying out, it looks to me that if the climber fell at the precise second of paying out (it can happen!) there would be a chance of losing control.

When paying out with any device, I find a better technique than letting rope slip to be to run the brake hand down the rope while keeping a bit of tension against the device then grip it tight and only then pay out, repeating that if more is needed. I've held falls while paying out (missed clip) with that technique, and I'm not confident I would be able to without rope burns if using any other technique. With a Grigri, if I must, I do it the same way - when bringing the brake hand up to pay out I release the cam just for a second to pay out the amount of slack I'm holding.

Sliding rope through my hands (except when completely unavoidable, e.g. lowering with a Grigri) gives me the nerves.

I'll pass on one of those, I think.

Neil
Post edited at 17:56
 TobyA 08 Jul 2015
In reply to Neil Williams:

> As a user of anything that video scares me.

Still sounds all rather over-dramatic. I doubt there will be loads of climbers plummeting to their doom as a result of these devices. Like I say, they look very similar to auto-looking or semi-auto-looking devices like grigris and megajuls and plenty of happy people belaying and being belayed by them.

Perhaps people are just more flexible in using different devices safely than you give them credit for?

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...