UKC

Evening all,

Thinking of selling custom finger boards in a small scale, work in the evenings kind of way. Working on a phone/email conversation to decide what holds are wanted and any special requests ect I'll then build it, do a nice job of it you get the idea.

Now my concern. What happens if someone gets hurt using one? Regardless of whether it's my fault or not I can't afford a legal battle of any form. Anyone got any thoughts on insurance or similar?

Cheers,
Greasy

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

There's probably a standard disclaimer used...

Hang on and I'll see if I can dig one out... brb

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Nope, no disclaimer as such with the instructions to my metolius board. There are however guidlines on warming up/down and recovery.

In reply to Oldsign:

Well thanks for looking, much appreciated. The thing I'm really worried about is if the thing pops of the wall whilst someone's trying a front lever or something. That's got back injury written all over it.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

There was a news article or forum post on UKC several years ago about the post-accident activities of a lass who'd broken her back in some injury related to a pull up bar (if I recall correctly.) I can't find it by google however. I don't know what the legal aspect to it was (if any). But it does underscore the potentially serious consequences with this stuff.

As well as insurance, do consider the means by which you sell the boards. If you sell them personally, then liability falls to you and - in my mind - there would always be uncertainty about what I would be exposing myself to now and forever more. I personally would find this unpredictability to be very bad as given the cost of spine injuries if something ever happened and there was a law suit it could be the ruin of me. Very small risk, very high consequences.

If you form a limited company, then so long as your actions remain legal then any liability incurred by the trading of the company stops with the company. Your personal finances and house remain safe. Running a small company is not a significant amount of work, but there are significant penalties for late filing of specific paperwork items etc. I suspect that in order for liability of equipment failure to stop with the company, the company would have to have a documented testing and quality control approach to the products. Would you be happy selling something that could cause injury without doing this, company or not?

I appreciate that this is a very negative take on things, hopefully someone will be along to balance it out!

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

I would sell them as decorative items with a disclaimer about improper use.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Wouldn't it depend on how they were injured.if your product failed I could see you being liable, but it would be more likely the fixing of the product would fail, so like many a product that is screwed to a wall,a small disclaimer saying make sure it's fitted correctly and if it doubt contact a qualified person should be enough.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

If it is a custom job where an expert customer specifies what kinds of holds they want you could maybe present what you do as a service rather than a product to minimise liability issues. So the customer signs off on a picture of what they want built and you contract to do the woodworking to make what they ask for without taking any responsibility for the specification or use of the end-result.

In reply to Phil Payne:


I would find a good lawyer to check that with. Disclaimers arent necessarily worth very much since you cant sign away your rights.
I doubt claiming something is decorative would really work as an excuse when it is clear the purpose was otherwise.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

I am not a lawyer etc. etc. I could be wrong.

I don't think any disclaimer will allow you to avoid all liability. You can limit any liability you have (probably very little) from someone injuring themselves through poor technique, or not mounting it properly. You can't avoid liability if someone gets injured because of a fault in the fingerboard. An example of unavoidable liability would be the fingerboard splitting while someone was hanging on it, and them landing on the floor.

It is possible to obtain public liability insurance, which covers you if you get sued. You'll have to go through a proper broker who will tailor it to your needs, it's not easy to predict how expensive that'll be.

It might be practical to form a limited company to make the fingerboards, with you as an employee and shareholder. That way if you lose a lawsuit the company goes under and your personal property isn't at risk. You might have to be careful to avoid the "alter ego" company rules... definitely get real advice before going down that route.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Thanks for the advice all, definitely some things to think about. I'm thinking it might be a lot easier to sell something less dangerous. Possibly custom chalk bags, surely no one's ever got hurt by one of those!

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Product liability insurance might work out pretty cheap for something low risk like a fingerboard. Probably worth a call to an insurance broker if you're interested in doing this and concerned about liability.

jk

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

If I was going to only make a few I'd probably issue mounting instructions to go with it that were blatantly over the top:
"Using 16 off 314 stainless M10 x 250 bolts, with suitable washers and self-locking nuts, affix the board to oak beam at least 200mm thick." Etc.

Since they didn't mount it the way you told them to, it's not your fault it failed.

I am not a lawyer etc.

In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Worth checking this out if you haven't already.

https://www.gov.uk/product-liability-and-safety-law

In reply to CJS1984:



Lots of interesting things there.

I think I would want to send it to an independent tester and also have a proffesional engineer look over the design.

It's only a piece of carved wood. I'm guessing you'd need some records of where the wood came from and keep some quality records.

Alternatively just get it made in China.