UKC

Hi there. Just need some advice on a rope purchase please.

Currently starting to get outdoors doing some top roped climbing with my 8yr old daughter. We have been climbing indoors for 18mths but as a complete beginner outside I am still in the process of learning the skills needed to set up the topropes outdoors. Whilst I learn I would like to buy the required rope etc to carry this out.

I don't climb (Much) and as my daughter is only 8 she doesn't put much strain on any setup. We currently own a 40m single rope which is fine for most indoor walls but she is starting to need 50m+ for walls like Kendal indoors.

So, am I ok buying a 60m single rope and use our existing 40m rope for setting up a top rope? I just don't have the budget at the moment to buy a static rope and a single rope, the helmets plus all the other stuff (Slings, crabiners, bouldering pad etc) we need at the moment.

In reply to Andrew Kinnersley:

You don't say where you are located but a 40 metre rope will be enough for setting up top ropes at most crags where someone with your limited experience can, practically speaking, set up a top rope e.g. grit or Symonds Yat etc. Or do you really mean "bottom rope". In some respects this can be trickier to set up than a top rope in order to do it correctly and will of course require at least double (plus some) the length of the pitch.

Looking at the broader picture you really need to climb yourself in order to gain experience to make both yourself and your daughter safe. I read with some concern your sentence about your daughter not putting much strain on the set up for example. You should always make a belay as strong as is possible and in a top roping scenario there is absolutely no excuse to do otherwise. I have climbed many times with my son and it is one of the most rewarding and satisfying experiences imaginable.

You should also be aware that there is a risk of falling rocks, especially at a venue like Symonds Yat and other limestone crags and I would advise you to buy a couple of helmets before getting a new rope for outdoors.

Al

In reply to Andrew Kinnersley:

Yes, it's fine. You might want to put a rope protector (e.g. old carpet) over the lip of the crag, partly to protect the crag, but also to protect your rope in the long term, which isn't going to be as burly as the statics people often use as workhorse anchor ropes.

You can also belay at the top of the crag, which is easy with only one rope, and means that your daughter can top-out in safety (i.e. you can make sure she walks away from the edge of the crag before going off belay).

Or, depending on your crag, you might be able to build your anchor with a couple of long slings.

So there are 3 options straight off!

(Also, the "strain" your daughter puts on a setup is a non-issue, because pretty much every top rope setup is built to hold a car, and I'm sure you're not going to be building marginal anchors for your daughter!).

In reply to Andrew Kinnersley:
Yes, but expect and account for rope stretch in your anchor (more than you think). I am assuming you intend to build a 'bottom' rope, where you hang a carabiner (or two) over the (padded/protected) edge and run the top rope through this (and then it is easiest to lower your climber). If you have 10m of rope in your anchor on each leg then when loaded you will get around a full metre of stretch (which can mess up your attempts to pad the edge etc). This will increase on a fall (but when bottom roping this should be a minimal slump, not a massive whipper).

For reassurance I would always ensure there are multiple redundant bits of rope going over any edge so that if the worst happens cutting one strand will not result in failure. For example, tie knots in the ropes either side of the edge. Canvas rope protectors are not too expensive. If you aren't terrified about every time your rope moves over an edge you should be

In reply to andrewmcleod:

You won't get that much if there's multiple arms though (i.e. a powerpoint-anchor-powerpoint-anchor-powerpoint setup)

In reply to GridNorth:

I must make sure I try to get my message across much clearer in future. I seem to always come across with a different message than I meant to.

Anyhow, located in Cumbria. Yes I do mean bottom rope but as per the BMC website I think wether you stand at the bottom or the top they are generally both regarded as top roping . In this scenario I agree bottom roping is probably clearer. I appreciate the 40m rope will probably be adequate for most beginner climbs outdoors but I need a longer rope for indoors so hope the next purchase helps both indoor and outdoor.

I try to climb but unfortunately its becoming obvious I cant. 2-3hrs at the crag just belaying last night and I am now nursing a heavily swollen knee and serious pain just from standing. I used to cycle thousands of miles per year, have ran marathons and played football to a high level. Trust me if I could I would and I would blooming love it too. Just aint gonna be possible unless I get 2 x knee replacements and my thigh bones broken to cure my genetic issues.

Don't have any concerns about the set up of the ropes. I am yet to set anything up as I stated I am learning. Until I am 100% sure in myself it wont be happening. The ropes that were set up last night were by a bloke who is 20st+ and I was quizzing him through every step of the way on why and how he was doing things. The reason I stated she didn't put much strain on the system is that he put 10x the stretch on the system on a dynamic rope than my daughter did. Even with any falls she hardly caused much stretch in the setup, whereas he would have made a considerable difference. He didn't climb by the way, he just kept and eye on us.

The question was can I use a single climbing rope like my existing 40m or a new 60m as a correctly set up belay point or am I going to have to wait and buy a static rope purposely for the job. Obviously I will also buy the hats etc at the same time.

Thanks for your input

In reply to climbwhenready:

Thanks for the reply. That's pretty much what I was thinking. Again, I think I have put toprope when maybe I should have put bottomroped.

Makes sense what you said completely.

In reply to andrewmcleod:

That's kinda what I was getting at when I said she doesn't strain the system. When she fell it wasn't that bad. When my average size pal fell on the same setup it was quite noticeable. All a learning curve but in no way did I suggest making it less bomb proof just because she was lighter.

In reply to Andrew Kinnersley:

I didn't mean to sound patronising, apologies if I did but it's good to keep in mind that people die trad climbing and several times recently I have seen indoors climbers trying to make the transition to outdoors and putting themselves in danger in the process. Climbers these days don't seem to serve the same "apprenticeships" that many of us old farts did so it's easy to achieve a high technical standard without gaining the nous that many of us take for granted.

Al

In reply to GridNorth:

No probs gridnorth. That's exactly what I feel like I should be doing, an apprenticeship. It is quite daunting making that step outside and my lack of 'history' means I don't even have the correct vocabulary to explain things sometimes.

In reply to Andrew Kinnersley:
I should also make my answers clearer

Yes, you can use dynamic rope to rig an anchor. Your anchor should be constructed in the same way regardless of the rope type (i.e. bombproof and edge-protected).

In reply to andrewmcleod:

Thanks. Then I think I should buy the 60m single rope, the helmets, slings & carabiners etc.

Just didn't want to shell out another £60-100 on a static rope which I could only use outside. Maybe in the future to top up my setup.

In reply to Andrew Kinnersley:

You shouldn't need to pay anything like that for enough static rope for anchoring purposes - just buy it by the meter (about £1.60/m) from virtually any climbing shop.

In reply to herbe_rouge:

or about £1/m from here...

http://www.caving-supplies.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdSrch.cgi?mode=user&trans...

In reply to Andrew Kinnersley:

Thanks for the suggestions guys