UKC

Packing for a trip to Cham - mostly just a walking holiday rather than a climbing trip but will be taking the gear and doing a few days of very easy rock-based stuff. We've already got a lightish 50m rope which we'll be taking for pitches and abs on very easy alpine rock routes but we thought maybe we'd do a bit of cragging too, probably at Les Gaillands and I was wondering if the 50m would allow us to cover a decent range of 4/5s or if we really need the 60m to be able to lower off. I've been studying the guidebook but as a sport climbing noob I'm struggling to make sense of where you can lower off and/or walk off. Many routes seem to expire halfway up a cliff with only a 'belay' and not an 'abseil point' marked on the topo - what does this mean?

I know I could take the 60 and ditch the 50 but I'm loath to do this as the 60 is also fatter and weighs quite a bit more to carry in the mountains.

Sorry for stupid questions, translating trad and scrambling into alpine and sport is too much for my tiny mind.

In reply to Oujmik:

There,s loads of shorter easy routes on Gaillands. The belays are also lowers.

In reply to Oujmik:
from my memory of Les Gaillands you'l have no trouble doing most of the routes with a 50m. The belays all have two rings or staple bolts from what I can remember. We had a 60m and did a lot of the routes and never came close to using the whole rope except the routes which went the full length of the lower cliff.

Marked as a belay point because it's so crowded there are ladders you can go down to decrease congestion, many people still abseil but the ladders are easily accessible from most routes.
If you're definitely just going to be doing some lower grade valley climbs (gaillands, servoz, la joux) then plenty of routes available with a 50m but i'd recommend a 60m for a few of the higher grade multipitches - and definitely 60m if you're going to venture onto some of the higher crags like brevent (la breche), index, crochue, etc.

In reply to Oujmik:

Thanks for the tips all. I might just manage to squeeze both into the luggage allowance after all, but now I know I can ditch the 60m without too much problem if needed.

In reply to Oujmik:


It's one of the crappiest crags I've been to and that's from someone who has visited I think every crag in the Rock Climbs in the West Midlands guide. Seriously, don't waste a day there when there are so many brilliant options nearby!

In reply to TobyA:

Wow, okay. What would you suggest for climbs in the 4/5 range? Open to ideas!

In reply to TobyA:

That's a little unfair imo, Les Gaillands are ok for filling in some time, when the weather is iffy and some areas better than others.

In reply to Oujmik:

Incidentally, do be very careful with rope lengths for lowers and abseils, even at roadside crags like les Gaillands. A young lad who was a very promising climber and regular on this site killed himself in an abseiling accident there a number of years ago. Maybe a convenient time to remember him.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1199

In reply to Oujmik: I also think that's a bit harsh - nice routes in a family environment with stunning views. There are certainly worse places to be for a steady day! Vallorcine, just up the valley is also a lovely spot for a gentle day, again with great views and a generally friendly atmosphere.

In reply to Skyfall:


My memories are that is basically just grid bolted natural line-less naffness. But maybe that just me.

Oujmik, I'm not an expert on the area by any means but I'm sure someone can suggest better than Gaillands. We went there because we didn't have a car and its walking distance from town, but I really don't remember there being much more to recommend it beyond the fact that it's there! I'm sure you'll have fun if you go but with the amazing mountains all around you it really did feel like missing the point to me!

In reply to Oujmik:

50 m is fine for most routes at Gaillands and other valley crags. Just check you don't need to abseil or lower off on anything over 25m! Even if you did, you can get round it.The main crag, has ladders / walk off areas. On some sectors of Gaillands a 60 m allows you to lower off from 30m pitches.
There are some nice routes at Gaillands; a nice rib or two, some good grooves. IMO the best sectors are in the woods up and left of the main crag. For me Gaillands only as a stop gap if going somewhere higher is not possible.
Vallorcine, Dome de Chapeaux, Servoz also good. 50m is also fine for the higher crags such as Brevent, Plan Praz crags, Index, Floria, Crochues etc. 60m is usually for the snow / ice / mixed routes.

In reply to Oujmik:
It's quite a nice crag really just pretty busy, there is some good routes but expect it too be too hot to climb by 11:30 ish in the current weather and try and make the effort to try out some of the other crags too.

Don't forget to tie a knot or get your partner to tie in to the other end of the rope if their is any doubt at all about length, given the number of people that have been lowered off the end of a rope Dave MacLeod included I think its good practise full stop especially at any crag where there is a potential route you may do longer than your rope length (when being lowered back down).

In reply to Oujmik:

Les Gaillands is OK and is quieter the further you go rightwards. But there are far better crags like the Dalle de Vallorcine, for example, in the grades you're looking for. At Vallorcine a single 50m is not great for an abseil descent, but there's a really easy and quick way off by following the chain at the top and climbing down the ladders. The crag's a 10min walk from the station, in case you don't have a car.

In reply to jon:


Aaaarrrggghhh, leftwards!

In reply to jon:


The Forestiers area, up and leftwards is great, with good lines at Les Gaillands. Good little buvette down by the car park to wind down afterwards.
Vallorcine is a great, well bolted and easy access crag in the grades you want.
60 m is a good length for thee crags

In reply to jon:


I've never seen Les Gailliands quiet

In reply to goose299:

I said quietER!

In reply to goose299:

the very top crag is often quite quiet

In reply to Oujmik:

La Joux is well worth a visit, as the routes tend to be technically interesting, with occasional 'old skool' bolting. It's generally quiet and in a very nice place.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

To be fair, i was talking base level. The top gets no traffic. Camped up there before when in Cham

In reply to Oujmik:

I reckon Valorcines is the place to go for a nice crag, as mentioned by one of your other replies.