UKC

Not your usual cragging or multi pitch, but mainly glacier travel, and the occasional moving together on scrambly Alpine bits.

Don't see a problem myself, but am willing to listen to other opinions.

In reply to Fredt:

I do it. Never too concerned about it. My only issue would be if there was an increased risk of cutting it on sharp edges. For purely glacial travel I think it's fine. You might want to consider what it would be like to attach a prussic to it if it was heavily iced up compared to on a fatter rope. Might also want to consider that Ropeman etc might not work on it, if it's really skinny.

In reply to NottsRich:

I've used a Ropeman on very thin ropes without a problem, down to 5mm accessory cord.

In reply to Fredt:

I've done it moving together on VDiffs (Bosi Ridge, Grooved Arete, Flying Buttress type things), normally with a falling-off-is-not-OK mentality. My ropes are 8.5mm Mammut Genesis, not super skinny though.

In reply to Fredt:

I think the main thing is that a single rope is more abrasion/cut resistant, and if you're moving on scrambly alpine bits there's a greater chance of it catching on an edge, particularly if you're looping it round rocks.

In reply to Fredt:

This was 5 years ago: mountaineering schools in the Alps taught with and recommended a half-rope for glacier travelling. I don't think the doctrine changed since. Obviously, it does not imply that a single rope is not suited, simply it's not necessary.

In reply to Fred: Would happily do this, and do.

In reply to Fredt:
Are you thinking about using a single short length of half rope (cut off to save weight?)? If you have a full length of half rope, why not just use it doubled over. Maybe safer than single rope, but with an increased nuisance of snagging on stuff while you are moving. You'd be carrying the weight anyway, probably as coils over your shoulder.

In reply to Fredt:

It's not sanctioned by the rope manufacturer, so no-one you have paid (like a guide) can do it, but as you say the extra risk is small so it's up to you. I use a single half rope often on remote routes in Scotland, but some of my mates insist on single ropes which are quite light nowadays.

In reply to Fredt:

If you were buying a new rope before an alpine trip these days maybe buying a triple rated one would be the way to go. Many are very little fatter than a half rope (i.e 8.9 or 9 mm) but you have the nice sense of being on a 'real' single rope when using it alone, but of course you can still pair it with a half rope for technical climbing.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=3765

I would love to hear the story of how John came to be jumaring 5 mm cord with a ropeman! eeek...

In reply to TobyA:

I think I would rather take a fall on an edge on a fat 8.5mm half rope than a skinny 9mm single though... neither will fail to catch the fall from overloading (the half will just wear out faster if used regularly to catch falls) but the half rope probably has a lot more sheath and so should be more abrasion resistant. I am, as always, happy to be proved wrong though!

I think my 8.5mm Genesis are 49% sheath?

In reply to Fredt:

absolutely nothing wrong with using a half rope on its own, when double roping how often do you think both ropes would be loaded equally in a fall? of course triple rated ropes are all the fasion these days but 1 half rope for alpine style climbing is pretty much the norm.

In reply to john arran:

Is that the Mk. 1, 2 or 3 version? My Mk. 2 seems tenuous at best on anything under 8mm. It's the Mark 2 "old" style on this page:

http://www.ucanyon.com/4115/ropeman-3-released-and-complete-line-updated

In reply to andrewmcleod:


Certainly for all the beal ropes I looked at the sheath percentage is higher for half ropes. if this actually proves to be more sheath thickness for your use case I can't be arsed to work out but you are probably correct.

In reply to NottsRich:

Not really sure as it's one I've had for a while and I don't remember when I got it. From your photos it looks like an old-style Mk 2. I used it recently on a big wall in Venezuela and hauled light bags of 15kg or so on a 60m tag line made from 5mm accessory cord. Had no problem with rope slippage and never looked like it ever would. Also pulled some heavier bags on 8mm cord with similar ease.

In reply to Fredt:

I think it depends on which half rope- have seen shredded (almost cut through) rope from a fall on an easy ridge following a slip- but this is with an 8.1mm half. (Caught over an edge)
Often use an 8.5mm genesis for this but if I was buying one especially would go for a skinny single.

In reply to Fredt:

I have regularly used a half rope for glacier travel with the other half rope in a rucksack ready to get out on a more technical route. Sometimes I use a triple rated, as Toby mentions, with a half rope stored as above or just by itself on many routes. I have also used a single half rope or triple rated rope on easy (for me and partner) scrambling / moving together ground. However, there are times when I prefer to revert to a thicker single rope.
1) If the rock is especially abrasive / sharp and I am using a lot of direct belays or weaving in and out of pinnacles. ( Some New Zealand routes have trashed my ropes very quickly )
2) When the odds of falling into a crevasse are heightened due to conditions, location, time of day, weather etc. The extra thickness makes it much easier to grip / handle especially with gloves on. For example the dry conditions in Cham. at the moment.
3) If I am climbing with someone on moving together ground who is less experienced / confident / capable on the ground.

As so often, I feel there is not a definite black and white answer but personal decisions and responsibility based on the people, route and conditions.

In reply to Fredt:

Skinny triples FTW

In reply to Fredt:

I was in the alps with guides last summer and they said you could use a half rope ok for glacier crossing. Can't remember what they said about rocky ridges to be honest.

In reply to Fredt:

My climbing partner bought a 30m Single rope @ 9.5mm from the main shop in the middle of Zermatt for less than the same product, if it had been available, in UK. All the Guides I saw were using Single / short ropes for both glacial and mixed terrain and when I spoke with a number of them, they said it was good practice: the weight & space saving was noticeable, too.

In reply to john arran:


Thanks, sounds like we have the same device then. I'll have another play with it on skinny ropes then and see how it goes. It might depend a bit on the krab you use with it, so I'll have a play around with that as well.

In reply to Andy Cloquet:

Local guides, doing a route for the hundredth time, will know exactly what rope length is required for a particular route as well as exactly what protection they require, and where any hidden placements are, so often have minimalist kit compared to the 'on sighter'. Shorter ropes for mixed and rock routes is great - if you can afford lots of different ropes of course.
Shorter ropes on snowed up glaciers concern me. Great if you know the conditions and locations of crevasses so a visit to the depths is extremely unlikely. Possibly if you are in a very popular area with lots of people around who can help get someone out quickly. Then there might also be the back up of a local helicopter rescue. But what happens if circumstances dictate that you need to hoist someone out. For example two climbers, 30m rope, 12 to 15 metres apart each having about 7-8 metres of chest coils. It can be done but will be a long ( and even harder ) process than if you had a 50m rope. Having seen several people who have been unexpectedly delayed in a crevasse for 15 - 30 minutes and sometimes longer I've noticed what poor condition they are often in and how important it is to speedily get them out and warmed up.
Learning from others, including guides, is a great way to develop new knowledge and skills. However we also need to question and think through carefully why someone might be doing something in a certain way. It may be great for them in their circumstances but not necessarily for others.