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And why have the Conservatives done so well in England for so long?
We both share the same language and have rubbed along for centuries so why does it appear that both nations are so polar in their political views?
We both share the same language and have rubbed along for centuries so why does it appear that both nations are so polar in their political views?
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In reply to coinneach:
Always thought they were splinter group from Labour who merged with the Liberals to become the Liberal Democrats but can't see how they are doing well in Scotland (or elsewhere)
Always thought they were splinter group from Labour who merged with the Liberals to become the Liberal Democrats but can't see how they are doing well in Scotland (or elsewhere)
In reply to The Lemming:
Do the SDP still exist? I remember seeing a lot about them when I was a kid but nothing for years.
Do the SDP still exist? I remember seeing a lot about them when I was a kid but nothing for years.
In reply to The Lemming: Nationalism, Milliband, and a canny knack of garnering the left wing protest vote despite being a centrist party.
In reply to The Lemming:
My impression (from outside the UK but I did live in Scotland most of my adult life) is that its more that Labour are not trusted any more, the Tories are detested & the Liberals are now considered as 'tories' after being in the last government. If any thing, I'm surprised that Labour stayed popular as long as they did when you look at their record in Scottish local government.
My impression (from outside the UK but I did live in Scotland most of my adult life) is that its more that Labour are not trusted any more, the Tories are detested & the Liberals are now considered as 'tories' after being in the last government. If any thing, I'm surprised that Labour stayed popular as long as they did when you look at their record in Scottish local government.
In reply to Mike Stretford:
I'm confused. I thought the SDP merged with the liberal party to give us the libdems, but that site seems to suggest they still exist (on paper at least).
I'm confused. I thought the SDP merged with the liberal party to give us the libdems, but that site seems to suggest they still exist (on paper at least).
In reply to malky_c:
It looks like a handful choose not to merge with the libdems and kept the SDP going although mostly faded away.
That website is class though. Looks like it hasnt been modified since the merger.
> I'm confused. I thought the SDP merged with the liberal party to give us the libdems, but that site seems to suggest they still exist (on paper at least).
It looks like a handful choose not to merge with the libdems and kept the SDP going although mostly faded away.
That website is class though. Looks like it hasnt been modified since the merger.
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It has barely anything to do with nationalism Mike. The vast numbers who flocked to the SNP, including me are from traditional industrial socialist areas. My main family line comes from London and the other side came from Ireland and I consider myself Scottish but I don't really care much for flags and national identity. I care more about class struggle, and the struggle between labour and capital.
Why England and Scotland have different voting patterns has multiple factors, but if you look to the north voting patterns aren't too different historically. Labour has always had its English heartlands which are now abandoning it as well as Labour try and covet the middle ground and "aspirational" (middle income) voters.
Why England and Scotland have different voting patterns has multiple factors, but if you look to the north voting patterns aren't too different historically. Labour has always had its English heartlands which are now abandoning it as well as Labour try and covet the middle ground and "aspirational" (middle income) voters.
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In reply to The Lemming:
Assuming you mean the SNP, it's a number of factors, but most importantly:
- represents a cause a lot of people (not a majority, sure, but a huge minority) are passionate about
- very good at tapping into the currently huge amount of anti-establishment sentiment while making sure the SNP aren't seen as part of the establishment and aren't seen as otherwise toxic (similar to UKIP, but UKIP fail on this last point)
- a very competent, charismatic, likeable leader
- really hopeless opposition which just doesn't understand public sentiment
Assuming you mean the SNP, it's a number of factors, but most importantly:
- represents a cause a lot of people (not a majority, sure, but a huge minority) are passionate about
- very good at tapping into the currently huge amount of anti-establishment sentiment while making sure the SNP aren't seen as part of the establishment and aren't seen as otherwise toxic (similar to UKIP, but UKIP fail on this last point)
- a very competent, charismatic, likeable leader
- really hopeless opposition which just doesn't understand public sentiment
In reply to The Lemming:
There are two things driving support for the SNP: first people don't like Labour any more and second people have realised that the centralisation in London which both the Tories and Labour are actively driving is extremely detrimental to Scotland.
The reason the Tories are doing well in England is almost the same, their vote is concentrated in the home counties and that geographic area is doing really well because the entire attention of government - as measured by where they spends serious money and use serious political capital - is focussed on making London successful.
There are two things driving support for the SNP: first people don't like Labour any more and second people have realised that the centralisation in London which both the Tories and Labour are actively driving is extremely detrimental to Scotland.
The reason the Tories are doing well in England is almost the same, their vote is concentrated in the home counties and that geographic area is doing really well because the entire attention of government - as measured by where they spends serious money and use serious political capital - is focussed on making London successful.
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In reply to The Lemming:
Because the Scots that voted for independence and lost turned out in their droves.
The rest of the voters displayed their usual apathy and that was enough to tip the balance in favour of the SNP.
Because the Scots that voted for independence and lost turned out in their droves.
The rest of the voters displayed their usual apathy and that was enough to tip the balance in favour of the SNP.
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In reply to Milesy:
I appreciate what you are saying, that is your reasons and the reasons for many others.... but there are also the nationalists, they were the base of the party before they got more popular, they haven't gone away.
> It has barely anything to do with nationalism Mike.
I appreciate what you are saying, that is your reasons and the reasons for many others.... but there are also the nationalists, they were the base of the party before they got more popular, they haven't gone away.
In reply to Mike Stretford:
The biggest nationalism is the sort that's been mentioned above is that most scots have absolutely zero affinity with London. Are there some sorts who just don't like England? I am sure there are but they are in the minority, and not in the millions of people who have just voted SNP and the hundreds of thousands of new members of the party.
And socialists were just as much of a base of the SNP than nationalists were in history.
The biggest nationalism is the sort that's been mentioned above is that most scots have absolutely zero affinity with London. Are there some sorts who just don't like England? I am sure there are but they are in the minority, and not in the millions of people who have just voted SNP and the hundreds of thousands of new members of the party.
And socialists were just as much of a base of the SNP than nationalists were in history.
In reply to The Lemming:
Less poeple voted in the election in scotland compared to the neverendum. The number of people who voted for the snp was also less in the electon than voted for independance. They have a higher % of less people.
1,617,989 voted yes out of 3,619,915 in the neverendum 44.7% and 1,454,436 voted for the snp out of 2,911,391 49.9% (% is number of electorate who voted not population or total electorate). If you look at the stats from the BBC.
Less poeple voted in the election in scotland compared to the neverendum. The number of people who voted for the snp was also less in the electon than voted for independance. They have a higher % of less people.
1,617,989 voted yes out of 3,619,915 in the neverendum 44.7% and 1,454,436 voted for the snp out of 2,911,391 49.9% (% is number of electorate who voted not population or total electorate). If you look at the stats from the BBC.
In reply to itsThere:
Yes mainly down to 16-17 year old not voting, and also you're forgetting to add in the many scottish greens who also voted yes in the referendum. (39,205) and you could also add in the small but still countable SSP votes at 995.
In the general election only 48.4% of voters voted for a unionist party (tory, lib dem, tory and ukip combined), where as SNP, green, SSP, solidarity (who?) still amassed over 50% of the vote.
> Less poeple voted in the election in scotland compared to the neverendum. The number of people who voted for the snp was also less in the electon than voted for independance. They have a higher % of less people.
Yes mainly down to 16-17 year old not voting, and also you're forgetting to add in the many scottish greens who also voted yes in the referendum. (39,205) and you could also add in the small but still countable SSP votes at 995.
> 1,617,989 voted yes out of 3,619,915 in the neverendum 44.7% and 1,454,436 voted for the snp out of 2,911,391 49.9% (% is number of electorate who voted not population or total electorate). If you look at the stats from the
In the general election only 48.4% of voters voted for a unionist party (tory, lib dem, tory and ukip combined), where as SNP, green, SSP, solidarity (who?) still amassed over 50% of the vote.
1,494,636 voted for a pro independence - or to put it another way - non-London centric / anti-establishment party.
And that's without the 16-17 year old votes in play (70% I think of whom voted yes)
And that's without the 16-17 year old votes in play (70% I think of whom voted yes)
In reply to skog:
And very good at avoiding responsibility for their rather poor record as the Scottish Government.
> Assuming you mean the SNP, it's a number of factors, but most importantly:
> - represents a cause a lot of people (not a majority, sure, but a huge minority) are passionate about
> - very good at tapping into the currently huge amount of anti-establishment sentiment while making sure the SNP aren't seen as part of the establishment and aren't seen as otherwise toxic (similar to UKIP, but UKIP fail on this last point)
> - a very competent, charismatic, likeable leader
> - really hopeless opposition which just doesn't understand public sentiment
And very good at avoiding responsibility for their rather poor record as the Scottish Government.
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In reply to Milesy:
This statistic was taken from a survey of fewer than 20 people! (I can't remember the exact number, I want to say 14, but not so sure.). It was trotted out quite a few times after the neverendum and a very misleading one! Maybe it was that kind of percentage over the population of 16 and 17 year olds, but we will never know as the sample size was too small
> And that's without the 16-17 year old votes in play (70% I think of whom voted yes)
This statistic was taken from a survey of fewer than 20 people! (I can't remember the exact number, I want to say 14, but not so sure.). It was trotted out quite a few times after the neverendum and a very misleading one! Maybe it was that kind of percentage over the population of 16 and 17 year olds, but we will never know as the sample size was too small
In reply to Milesy:
The thing is, large swathes of England also have zero affinity with London, so why are they not more left too? I don't understand at all why we have such a difference in voting trends between Scotland and England
> The biggest nationalism is the sort that's been mentioned above is that most scots have absolutely zero affinity with London.
The thing is, large swathes of England also have zero affinity with London, so why are they not more left too? I don't understand at all why we have such a difference in voting trends between Scotland and England
In reply to girlymonkey:
They are in lots of English labour heart lands traditionally. That's only one reason.
> The thing is, large swathes of England also have zero affinity with London, so why are they not more left too? I don't understand at all why we have such a difference in voting trends between Scotland and England
They are in lots of English labour heart lands traditionally. That's only one reason.
In reply to skog:
Also tailored their policies (or at least rhetoric) to the Scottish public, which is of course what all parties do these days, the SNP have just done it very well and are targeting a narrower electorate than a UK wide party which aids there cause.
> Assuming you mean the SNP, it's a number of factors, but most importantly:
> - represents a cause a lot of people (not a majority, sure, but a huge minority) are passionate about
> - very good at tapping into the currently huge amount of anti-establishment sentiment while making sure the SNP aren't seen as part of the establishment and aren't seen as otherwise toxic (similar to UKIP, but UKIP fail on this last point)
> - a very competent, charismatic, likeable leader
> - really hopeless opposition which just doesn't understand public sentiment
Also tailored their policies (or at least rhetoric) to the Scottish public, which is of course what all parties do these days, the SNP have just done it very well and are targeting a narrower electorate than a UK wide party which aids there cause.
In reply to rogerwebb:
I don't agree it has been poor overall, but there are some areas where it has not been good - the policing centralisation (though this was also supported by Labour; no excuse, though, it needs sorted), and some areas in education and health.
Blame hasn't quite stuck so far, but that will change if these aren't addressed quickly, and soon.
But overall, on this, see my second and fourth points!
> And very good at avoiding responsibility for their rather poor record as the Scottish Government.
I don't agree it has been poor overall, but there are some areas where it has not been good - the policing centralisation (though this was also supported by Labour; no excuse, though, it needs sorted), and some areas in education and health.
Blame hasn't quite stuck so far, but that will change if these aren't addressed quickly, and soon.
But overall, on this, see my second and fourth points!
In reply to Dr.S at work:
Yes, though not any more than the Tories have targeted the South of England.
Yes, though not any more than the Tories have targeted the South of England.
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In reply to The Lemming:
Erm, cos they is from Scotsland and dey is like Scotstish.
Everyone knew that.
Erm, cos they is from Scotsland and dey is like Scotstish.
Everyone knew that.
In reply to The Lemming:
Because only a party with no chance of power in the UK parliament can credibly present a case to extort the maximum amount of cash from England to be sent to Scotland.
Because only a party with no chance of power in the UK parliament can credibly present a case to extort the maximum amount of cash from England to be sent to Scotland.
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In reply to nightclimber:
I'm not sure who you've been listening to (well, I suppose it's probably the Tory election propaganda), but that isn't what the SNP do at all.
Ideally, for the SNP, Scotland would manage its own finances, raising and spending its own money. We recently had a referendum about this, in fact...
> Because only a party with no chance of power in the UK parliament can credibly present a case to extort the maximum amount of cash from England to be sent to Scotland.
I'm not sure who you've been listening to (well, I suppose it's probably the Tory election propaganda), but that isn't what the SNP do at all.
Ideally, for the SNP, Scotland would manage its own finances, raising and spending its own money. We recently had a referendum about this, in fact...
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In reply to skog:
Sadly not just Tory propaganda but Labour, Lib dem, UKIP and probably SDP propaganda too.
Propped up by the Westminster centric press who just don't want their bubble burst.
Sadly not just Tory propaganda but Labour, Lib dem, UKIP and probably SDP propaganda too.
Propped up by the Westminster centric press who just don't want their bubble burst.
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The SNP aren't perfect but they aren't the cause of everything up here, and neither is Westminster. Even other Scottish msps are to blame. There's a lot of hangovers from the Scottish executive days and even now labour have still ran lots. Keep in mind labour have still been the bosses of all things at a local level. Many problems with Glasgow eduction is caused by labor ran Glasgow councils. So it's not all snps fault.
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