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Washing dry treated ropes after sea cliff climbing?

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 Mike_eddie1 23 Jul 2015

Hi there,

Ive just purchased a pair of Mammut genesis dry treated ropes. I know it's important to wash the metal kit after each use and dry thoroughly, but I wondered how often, if at all, I need to rinse off my ropes? Does the dry treatment make a difference?

Cheers,

Mike
Post edited at 13:01
Rigid Raider 23 Jul 2015
In reply to Mike_eddie1:

People wash their kit after cliff climbing?
Removed User 23 Jul 2015
In reply to Rigid Raider:

Wait, we're meant to wash our gear? 5 years and no one told me..
 Trangia 23 Jul 2015
In reply to Mike_eddie1:

I don't know how essential it is, but to be on the safe side, I always soak my ropes (along with the other climbing gear) in the bath after climbing at Swanage.

Just cold water, no detergent.
 LucaC 23 Jul 2015
In reply to Removed User:

I've never bothered. Dry treatment makes no difference when they inevitably end up in a rock pool or the ends thrown in the sea. I have a pair of sea cliff ropes which I'm not too fussed about, and some better treated ones for mountains and winter.
 Smelly Fox 23 Jul 2015
In reply to Mike_eddie1:

Yeah it's a good idea to give your cams a clean and a lube after sea-cliff climbing. I've had a few seize in the past. Salty air can be pretty damaging. I wouldn't bother with nuts and crabs though, they are pretty robust. Only if they take a swim would I think about giving them a fresh water bath and a lube.

I have never bothered to clean my ropes every time a use them on the coast though. If they take a dunking I might stick them in the shower for a few mins to soak up the salt, but I don't worry too much. Modern dry treatments are very good, but be aware that they don't last forever!
1
 Kermi 23 Jul 2015
In reply to Mike_eddie1:

One reason to wash your gear down would be to remove any bird feces from your gear - http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/61646.php

Like anything though, it's a choice.

Rigid Raider 23 Jul 2015
In reply to Mike_eddie1:

Salty water is corrosive but I'd imagine that being thrown into a 'sac and left for a few days with a load of wet kit would be equally damaging to alloy equipment.
 neuromancer 23 Jul 2015
In reply to Mike_eddie1:

Dried salt acts in the same way that sand does and abrades ropes. It will improve the life, though marginally. Either way - climbing is deeply psychological and if this makes you feel better do it!
 nniff 23 Jul 2015
In reply to neuromancer:

> Dried salt acts in the same way that sand does and abrades ropes.

IMHO you made that up and have not a shred of evidence to support it. Conversely, oxygen lubricates them, so you're better off climbing by the seaside where it's windy. For the avoidance of doubt, I made that up.
4
 SteveD 23 Jul 2015
In reply to Mike_eddie1:

I pretty much only do sea cliff climbing and wash kit, perhaps, once a year. Otherwise I would be washing gear every week, I doubt that is good for it.

If I have a bit of gear that needs maintenance, lube a cam or whatever then I do that as and when, but not often. I have karabiners that are 30 years old and still do service as racking Krabs and not really showing any signs of deterioration.

SteveD
 neuromancer 23 Jul 2015
In reply to nniff:
Of course I did. But it's more likely to be true than half of the stuff posted on here and comes with no downsides.

Also what about when the salt from the rope goes onto your non-anodised metalwork and causes oxidation and damage?

HUH?
Post edited at 16:56
 Martin Hore 23 Jul 2015
In reply to neuromancer:

> Dried salt acts in the same way that sand does and abrades ropes. It will improve the life, though marginally. Either way - climbing is deeply psychological and if this makes you feel better do it!

Not quite sure why you later retracted this as "made up". My understanding was that if sea water gets into the core of the rope and then evaporates the salt can crystallise out inside the core. The salt crystals can then abrade the rope from the inside as you keep using it. (Don't think this would apply to sand though - sand doesn't dissolve in water).

However, this possibility hasn't led me to wash my ropes after sea cliff climbing except if they've taken a real dunking, which I try hard to avoid (though I can't say the same for ab ropes).

I'm not aware of any accident caused by the deterioration of the core in this way, though. Indeed I think those in the know say there have hardly been any accidents due to rope failure at all, except for cutting over sharp edges.

Martin
 CurlyStevo 23 Jul 2015
In reply to Mike_eddie1:
Mammut told me that they recommend only rinsing ropes if they get wet and then only about 1 in 4 times.

I've seen what salt water can do to cams, biners etc if they don't get rinsed afterwards so I always rinse mine.
Post edited at 18:09
 CurlyStevo 23 Jul 2015
In reply to Martin Hore:

> Not quite sure why you later retracted this as "made up". My understanding was that if sea water gets into the core of the rope and then evaporates the salt can crystallise out inside the core. The salt crystals can then abrade the rope from the inside as you keep using it. (Don't think this would apply to sand though - sand doesn't dissolve in water).

> However, this possibility hasn't led me to wash my ropes after sea cliff climbing except if they've taken a real dunking, which I try hard to avoid (though I can't say the same for ab ropes).

> I'm not aware of any accident caused by the deterioration of the core in this way, though. Indeed I think those in the know say there have hardly been any accidents due to rope failure at all, except for cutting over sharp edges.

> Martin


Yeah well I've also heard sandstone can do the same so I opened up one of my ropes I'd used for years on southern sandstone and was retiring, there was no sand in it what so ever and the core didn't look abraded. The salt water thing does sound a little more believable mind.

 neuromancer 23 Jul 2015
In reply to Martin Hore:

I didn't have any evidence for it beyond my own reason; so that's what I stated - I made it up, but thought about it first.

It probably has an effect; it's probably not much compared to all of the other things that can kill you. However, in my job I do all I can to reduce controllable risks because the uncontrollable risks are ludicrous; it has a bleed over effect.
 nniff 23 Jul 2015
In reply to neuromancer:

> But it's more likely to be true than half of the stuff posted on here

Now that has the ring-a-ding-ding of truth of a well-placed peg!

 nniff 23 Jul 2015
In reply to neuromancer:

> But it's more likely to be true than half of the stuff posted on here


Now that has the ring-a-ding-ding of truth of a well-placed peg

Only time I've given myself a nasty graze on dried salt was when it had dried on some granite. Personally, I think it was the granite wot dunnit. Same stuff did for a rope once too



 Andrew Wilson 23 Jul 2015
In reply to Mike_eddie1:

I climb sea cliffs regularly. My ropes and rack get cleaned thoroughly every winter, whilst hanging from my harness in the snow and rain!

Andy
 willjones 23 Jul 2015
In reply to Andrew Wilson:

I have a similar approach to this "problem". I can honestly say that I have never deliberately washed a rope, but have done plenty of v diffs in the rain in N Wales at random intervals which I predict having a similar effect i.e none at all except making your rope wet.
OP Mike_eddie1 23 Jul 2015
In reply to Mike_eddie1:

Awesome thanks for the replies guys! I'll dedicate that extra time to a post climb beer instead then. Nice one
 alex_140 24 Jul 2015
In reply to Mike_eddie1:

Salt crystals will cause abrasion to some degree. This is likely to be more severe than abrasion from water ice due to the hardness of rocksalt/sodium chloride.

With a dry-treated rope the amount of water absorbed should be less than 5% of the rope's weight - in some cases this can be less than 1%. We use these treated ropes in winter to reduce (not prevent) ice crystal formation and abrasion; giving the rope more longevity. Therefore reducing salt crystal formation is a sensible way of making your rope last longer. A non-treated rope can absorb 50% of it's weight so the amount of salt would be higher.

If the rope has been submerged in a rock pool/the sea I would soak the rope in cold/tepid water. Rinsing may not get sufficient water to the core to dissolve the salt. Ideally don't let the rope dry out before soaking/rinsing. Additionally make attempts to remove excess water before air drying as tap water has dissolve minerals, more so if you live in a hard water area.

My rope took a dunk a few days ago and I soaked it in the bath as soon as I got home, drained and added more water, then dried by running a prussik along the length before air drying. My rope is a 2yo, non-treated, single and was already looking dirty so I was already considering doing something.
 alex_140 24 Jul 2015
In reply to nniff:
>> Dried salt acts in the same way that sand does and abrades ropes.
>
>IMHO you made that up and have not a shred of evidence to support it. Conversely, oxygen lubricates them, so >you're better off climbing by the seaside where it's windy. For the avoidance of doubt, I made that up.

Oxygen does not lubricate - it is a gas. And rope companies supply plenty evidence to support rope degradation due to dirt, saltwater and ice crystals.
Post edited at 10:57
 john arran 24 Jul 2015
In reply to alex_140:
> rope companies supply plenty evidence to support rope degradation due to ... saltwater.

I've never seen any of this evidence so I'd be keen to hear more if this is true. It always seemed to me to be a hypothesised risk rather than one that's ever been known to cause any damage at all in practice, but I'm all ears if you know of any studies that have ever been done to suggest otherwise. And by this I don't just mean rope companies covering themselves against the hypothesised risk by say it 'may' cause damage, I mean actual observed instances of it.


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