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I'm asking this as I'm thinking on my longer term goals and things I want/need to be able to do and lead climbing is certainly one of the ones up there and I was surprised that somebody did mention that it is something that should at least be there in my mind. I just want to know what the concensus is on the sort of prerequisites for getting into lead climbing are such as should I be climbing at a certain grade first and therefore building up all areas of climbing to get there first? I just want to know as I do like to set myself short, mid and long term goals for myself so I can organise what I do each time I go climbing or bouldering better.
I do climb in a club and we have a range of abilities there so it's a good place to watch or be coached plus I do try to get people out with me so I have somebody to train with but as is often the case not everybody is free at the weekends or in the evenings during the working week - I don't let it stop me but it does mean than I'll go bouldering on my own if nobody is free (I will use auto-belays at indoor walls but I have many reasons to dislike these and so tend to use them as an absolute last resort.)
Thanks.
I do climb in a club and we have a range of abilities there so it's a good place to watch or be coached plus I do try to get people out with me so I have somebody to train with but as is often the case not everybody is free at the weekends or in the evenings during the working week - I don't let it stop me but it does mean than I'll go bouldering on my own if nobody is free (I will use auto-belays at indoor walls but I have many reasons to dislike these and so tend to use them as an absolute last resort.)
Thanks.
In reply to PamPam:
There are no hard and fast rules.
Go for it when you feel comfortable. Start on something easy and if that feels OK up the grade a bit.
Why not go on a leading course?
There are no hard and fast rules.
Go for it when you feel comfortable. Start on something easy and if that feels OK up the grade a bit.
Why not go on a leading course?
In reply to PamPam:
If you want to lead trad then second lots of trad and pay attention to how the gear went in, and why, as you are removing it.
How quickly and safely someone can assimilate information and competence from experience, I think, depends upon if they are "mechanically minded" to start with. Someone without a good grasp of the mechanics/dynamics involved will take longer to become competent. You shouldn't ever be doing something because you were taught to do it but because you understand why you do it. Even via a professional course it is near impossible to cover every eventuality and an understanding of first principles, and a discipline of applying those, will always be a good thing to have. Quality professional instruction would probably be a boost though. In terms of "learning from friends" just be aware that experience does not always equate to competence. I was lucky with the people I fell in with when starting out. I have also on occasion seen some scary stuff happen while out climbing with the blind leading the blind.
In terms of grade it is better to start leading on something you have already seconded IMO with the support of the person with whom you seconded it. That might be something at your limit even but maybe is something you are always secure on while placing gear and is never run out.
If you have have experienced people you climb with then don't have them always pointing you at something to do. Learn how to use guidebooks and select routes for yourself, initially with some support from a competent partner that can tell you why or why not that might be a suitable challenge while learning.
I started leading 3 days after I started climbing but it was all a bit different then as walls were pretty much mainly for bouldering in the winter and bad weather at that point
If you want to lead trad then second lots of trad and pay attention to how the gear went in, and why, as you are removing it.
How quickly and safely someone can assimilate information and competence from experience, I think, depends upon if they are "mechanically minded" to start with. Someone without a good grasp of the mechanics/dynamics involved will take longer to become competent. You shouldn't ever be doing something because you were taught to do it but because you understand why you do it. Even via a professional course it is near impossible to cover every eventuality and an understanding of first principles, and a discipline of applying those, will always be a good thing to have. Quality professional instruction would probably be a boost though. In terms of "learning from friends" just be aware that experience does not always equate to competence. I was lucky with the people I fell in with when starting out. I have also on occasion seen some scary stuff happen while out climbing with the blind leading the blind.
In terms of grade it is better to start leading on something you have already seconded IMO with the support of the person with whom you seconded it. That might be something at your limit even but maybe is something you are always secure on while placing gear and is never run out.
If you have have experienced people you climb with then don't have them always pointing you at something to do. Learn how to use guidebooks and select routes for yourself, initially with some support from a competent partner that can tell you why or why not that might be a suitable challenge while learning.
I started leading 3 days after I started climbing but it was all a bit different then as walls were pretty much mainly for bouldering in the winter and bad weather at that point
Post edited at 11:35
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In reply to ultrabumbly:
i have never thought of it that way, but that is so true. When placing gear you need to think which way the main force(s) will come in the event of your falling, and that isn't necessarily down! You also need to consider rope drag and how to reduce this.
Gear placement is an acquired art. A lot can be taught, but also a lot comes with experience, another reason why I believe you should start as soon as possible after you start climbing, but keep to routes and grades you feel really comfortable with and learn this art before you start pushing the boundaries.
Like you, I was leading (Diffs and V Diffs in my case) by day 3 of my introduction to climbing and that included multi pitch and belay building (another art where the mechanics of expected forces need to be thought about)
> If you want to lead trad then second lots of trad and pay attention to how the gear went in, and why, as you are removing it.
> How quickly and safely someone can assimilate information and competence from experience, I think, depends upon if they are "mechanically minded" to start with. Someone without a good grasp of the mechanics/dynamics involved will take longer to become competent.
i have never thought of it that way, but that is so true. When placing gear you need to think which way the main force(s) will come in the event of your falling, and that isn't necessarily down! You also need to consider rope drag and how to reduce this.
Gear placement is an acquired art. A lot can be taught, but also a lot comes with experience, another reason why I believe you should start as soon as possible after you start climbing, but keep to routes and grades you feel really comfortable with and learn this art before you start pushing the boundaries.
Like you, I was leading (Diffs and V Diffs in my case) by day 3 of my introduction to climbing and that included multi pitch and belay building (another art where the mechanics of expected forces need to be thought about)
Post edited at 11:51
In reply to PamPam:
Don't over-think it. From a background of walking and scrambling, I went out climbing a couple of times (top-roping) and then went on a 'learn to lead' course straight away. It gave the instructor a bit more work to do as I wasn't yet a competent second, but since I was keen and was used to being on rock from scrambling, he managed to teach me fine.
I think the ideal way is to go climbing with an experienced friend a few times so you're a competent second, then try leading. There's no need to be at a certain grade or have a certain level of experience - if you've got the confidence after a few trips outside, go for it - just make sure that someone nearby knows what they're doing and that you can set up a safe belay at the top.
Don't over-think it. From a background of walking and scrambling, I went out climbing a couple of times (top-roping) and then went on a 'learn to lead' course straight away. It gave the instructor a bit more work to do as I wasn't yet a competent second, but since I was keen and was used to being on rock from scrambling, he managed to teach me fine.
I think the ideal way is to go climbing with an experienced friend a few times so you're a competent second, then try leading. There's no need to be at a certain grade or have a certain level of experience - if you've got the confidence after a few trips outside, go for it - just make sure that someone nearby knows what they're doing and that you can set up a safe belay at the top.
Post edited at 12:00
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In reply to ultrabumbly:
Yeah, I've unfortunately not had much outdoor climbing experience; under my own steam I went to an introduction to outdoor climbing (long story but I have good reason to not go back to that particular centre again) but the club I am with is trying to get out to the Peak District more. The problem is having the people who are capable and also for us to all get the time out to take part. The problem is that when the club does go out there is a need to cater to the range of climbing ability there. Some perhaps don't like that I may need more instruction or coaching; I always ask questions because I want to understand the how's, the why's and the mechanics of what is being done just for the reason you stated! It may come the day where I am asked the questions by a less experienced climber. I think next year my next outdoor holiday will be incorporating an outdoor climbing course for a few days rather than the focus be on walking. I don't have normal holidays anymore!
Yeah, I've unfortunately not had much outdoor climbing experience; under my own steam I went to an introduction to outdoor climbing (long story but I have good reason to not go back to that particular centre again) but the club I am with is trying to get out to the Peak District more. The problem is having the people who are capable and also for us to all get the time out to take part. The problem is that when the club does go out there is a need to cater to the range of climbing ability there. Some perhaps don't like that I may need more instruction or coaching; I always ask questions because I want to understand the how's, the why's and the mechanics of what is being done just for the reason you stated! It may come the day where I am asked the questions by a less experienced climber. I think next year my next outdoor holiday will be incorporating an outdoor climbing course for a few days rather than the focus be on walking. I don't have normal holidays anymore!
In reply to Trangia:
I'd like to learn trad climbing - since I found I really love climbing indoors it seemed to make sense to me to get this outdoors once I felt ready and trad is another thing for me to learn - to me it's another form of climbing, another skill set to have and something that will always have me learning and challenged. I hate feeling stagnant or that I have nothing to learn to improve upon. I think that's why I've seen some people drop out from the club who were newcomers because they either decided they didn't like it or maybe realised what it can involve and perhaps didn't fancy it. I don't like something that I feel I have "mastered" in a few weeks.
I'd like to learn trad climbing - since I found I really love climbing indoors it seemed to make sense to me to get this outdoors once I felt ready and trad is another thing for me to learn - to me it's another form of climbing, another skill set to have and something that will always have me learning and challenged. I hate feeling stagnant or that I have nothing to learn to improve upon. I think that's why I've seen some people drop out from the club who were newcomers because they either decided they didn't like it or maybe realised what it can involve and perhaps didn't fancy it. I don't like something that I feel I have "mastered" in a few weeks.
In reply to Jon Stewart:
Haha yeah I often over-think when I climb, I find that every time I climb be it bouldering or just on the club wall that there's a tricky move or something I have to switch off the thinking bit of my brain and just go for it - so far when I do switch off the over-thinking I make it and wonder what the fuss was!
I do know there are people at the club who are keen to encourage and push us on which is not a bad thing. It was one of those people who prompted me to start thinking about lead climbing and when I come to think of it he didn't make any mention of the grades I climb but more about the ability I do have. It's good to know we aren't a club who score people by the grades they climb and actually want people to just become great climbers first.
Haha yeah I often over-think when I climb, I find that every time I climb be it bouldering or just on the club wall that there's a tricky move or something I have to switch off the thinking bit of my brain and just go for it - so far when I do switch off the over-thinking I make it and wonder what the fuss was!
I do know there are people at the club who are keen to encourage and push us on which is not a bad thing. It was one of those people who prompted me to start thinking about lead climbing and when I come to think of it he didn't make any mention of the grades I climb but more about the ability I do have. It's good to know we aren't a club who score people by the grades they climb and actually want people to just become great climbers first.
In reply to PamPam:
>I just want to know what the concensus is on the sort of prerequisites for getting into lead climbing are such as should I be climbing at a certain grade first and therefore building up all areas of climbing to get there first?
I don't think there are any pre-requisites, except already being comfortable with top-roping/seconding and feeling ready to push yourself a bit further.
Some climbing walls have a minimum grade you should be able to climb to do a "learn to lead" course, but it's usually pretty low.
Personally, I found doing a one-afternoon "learn to lead" course very useful. Indoor leading is not that complicated (once you've got the hang of not back-clipping), but -- for me, at least -- lead belaying takes more concentration and is more anxiety-provoking. So getting a chunk of supervised teaching and practice was very useful.
In my experience, bouldering can make the transition to leading a lot easier -- it means you're already on board with the idea that if you fall off, you're going to go somewhere, not just dangle in space where you are!
>I just want to know what the concensus is on the sort of prerequisites for getting into lead climbing are such as should I be climbing at a certain grade first and therefore building up all areas of climbing to get there first?
I don't think there are any pre-requisites, except already being comfortable with top-roping/seconding and feeling ready to push yourself a bit further.
Some climbing walls have a minimum grade you should be able to climb to do a "learn to lead" course, but it's usually pretty low.
Personally, I found doing a one-afternoon "learn to lead" course very useful. Indoor leading is not that complicated (once you've got the hang of not back-clipping), but -- for me, at least -- lead belaying takes more concentration and is more anxiety-provoking. So getting a chunk of supervised teaching and practice was very useful.
In my experience, bouldering can make the transition to leading a lot easier -- it means you're already on board with the idea that if you fall off, you're going to go somewhere, not just dangle in space where you are!
In reply to PamPam:
If you can climb reasonably reliably, without suddenly unexpectedly falling off random moves out of control you are in a good position to start leading assuming you want to of course. Pick a trusty belayer, a grade you're comfortable with, make sure you know how the ropes work then get stuck in. Don't be afraid to stop for a rest if you're feeling out of control. It'll probably feel unfamiliar and a bit scary but that generally gets better.
jk
If you can climb reasonably reliably, without suddenly unexpectedly falling off random moves out of control you are in a good position to start leading assuming you want to of course. Pick a trusty belayer, a grade you're comfortable with, make sure you know how the ropes work then get stuck in. Don't be afraid to stop for a rest if you're feeling out of control. It'll probably feel unfamiliar and a bit scary but that generally gets better.
jk
In reply to PamPam:
I did my first lead on my second weekend away. Maud's Garden at the Roaches. Borrowed a rack and rope off a club mate. Following trips I teamed up with an experienced club member who didn't eat breakfast and I was the first one ready to climb with him. He'd lead a VS or HVS , E1 etc. then he'd let me have a go at leading a VD or S etc. worked well and I was leading HS by end of summer and got onto VS leads next summer season. This was before climbing walls were what they are now, so all learnt outdoors. I'm now the experienced climber repaying the gift a couple of decades later.
So if you can find a mentor in your club, I'd highly recommend it. But it was my choice to try leading and loved it that first time and kept at it. Don't lead if you don't want to. Many in our club are happy seconding, and that's absolutely fine. Go at your own pace.
I did my first lead on my second weekend away. Maud's Garden at the Roaches. Borrowed a rack and rope off a club mate. Following trips I teamed up with an experienced club member who didn't eat breakfast and I was the first one ready to climb with him. He'd lead a VS or HVS , E1 etc. then he'd let me have a go at leading a VD or S etc. worked well and I was leading HS by end of summer and got onto VS leads next summer season. This was before climbing walls were what they are now, so all learnt outdoors. I'm now the experienced climber repaying the gift a couple of decades later.
So if you can find a mentor in your club, I'd highly recommend it. But it was my choice to try leading and loved it that first time and kept at it. Don't lead if you don't want to. Many in our club are happy seconding, and that's absolutely fine. Go at your own pace.
In reply to slab_happy:
That is true of the bouldering! I went yesterday to The Depot in Nottingham, mainly on recommendation that more bouldering will help build up my strength and encourage me to become more confident with trickier or more dynamic movements. It was my first time there and I forgot how high bouldering walls can be as it's been a while since I've been to one where I've had to really be mindful of how far I have to fall if I do slip! Once I got comfortable it was great.
Belaying is something I have had to work at already for top rope climbs. I'm the lightest in the club at just under 9 stone so for a while I'd been attaching sandbags to myself to help but I realised that I have to stop relying on them for when I start climbing outdoors. One week I was paired with somebody who is a good bit heavier than me but was able to give me a lot of really good coaching on belaying and get used to the fact that because I'm light I will have to get used to what that does. Probably the most nervous session I've had since I first started out but worth the mildly frayed nerves in the end!
That is true of the bouldering! I went yesterday to The Depot in Nottingham, mainly on recommendation that more bouldering will help build up my strength and encourage me to become more confident with trickier or more dynamic movements. It was my first time there and I forgot how high bouldering walls can be as it's been a while since I've been to one where I've had to really be mindful of how far I have to fall if I do slip! Once I got comfortable it was great.
Belaying is something I have had to work at already for top rope climbs. I'm the lightest in the club at just under 9 stone so for a while I'd been attaching sandbags to myself to help but I realised that I have to stop relying on them for when I start climbing outdoors. One week I was paired with somebody who is a good bit heavier than me but was able to give me a lot of really good coaching on belaying and get used to the fact that because I'm light I will have to get used to what that does. Probably the most nervous session I've had since I first started out but worth the mildly frayed nerves in the end!
In reply to Orgsm:
Thanks. I have found a couple of people who I do ask or will offer advice which is good and although my last actual climbing session on top rope may not have been all about completing the routes, I was trying different approaches to some hold sequences on routes I was familiar with again just to build confidence in myself, my foot placements and balance as I found if I get stronger in that aspect then I can push onto things that are a bit more challenging, not strictly harder grades but more like making better use of smaller holds which I can find difficult at the moment or indeed getting myself more into a position to feel totally ready to attempt lead.
Thanks. I have found a couple of people who I do ask or will offer advice which is good and although my last actual climbing session on top rope may not have been all about completing the routes, I was trying different approaches to some hold sequences on routes I was familiar with again just to build confidence in myself, my foot placements and balance as I found if I get stronger in that aspect then I can push onto things that are a bit more challenging, not strictly harder grades but more like making better use of smaller holds which I can find difficult at the moment or indeed getting myself more into a position to feel totally ready to attempt lead.
In reply to PamPam:
As some others have said - don't think too much, just do it! Either via your club, or via a course. Drop several grades form what you're happy seconding and you'll be fine. Probably
As some others have said - don't think too much, just do it! Either via your club, or via a course. Drop several grades form what you're happy seconding and you'll be fine. Probably
In reply to PamPam:
Lots of good advice given already. Better to be taught by someone who is use to/trained to teach leading. Many of us were not, and first leads were in some cases more traumatic than they needed to be!
Lots of good advice given already. Better to be taught by someone who is use to/trained to teach leading. Many of us were not, and first leads were in some cases more traumatic than they needed to be!
In reply to PamPam:
Hi Pam,
Me and my daughter (8yrs old) are relative newcomers to climbing. Obviously there is no way she can belay me so it was a case of getting her leading from the off or we couldn't really climb without a 3rd person to help.
Anyhow, after a couple of visits to ensure she was comfortable top roping etc, we just went for it. Her instructor from her climbing team suggested it was the perfect time for her to do it as she didn't have any fear. She has been lead climbing now for over 6mths and tbh from our perspective I can't see any reason to wait. Go for it
Hi Pam,
Me and my daughter (8yrs old) are relative newcomers to climbing. Obviously there is no way she can belay me so it was a case of getting her leading from the off or we couldn't really climb without a 3rd person to help.
Anyhow, after a couple of visits to ensure she was comfortable top roping etc, we just went for it. Her instructor from her climbing team suggested it was the perfect time for her to do it as she didn't have any fear. She has been lead climbing now for over 6mths and tbh from our perspective I can't see any reason to wait. Go for it
In reply to Andrew Kinnersley:
Wow, that's pretty impressive. Sadly I'm not totally devoid of fear yet.
I think at least for now I'm still working on reducing my fear of falling as top rope falls are a bit different from lead climb falls so walk before I can run on that; I properly started attacking that earlier this week as it was just obvious how it can hold me back. I'm short and so I do have to make some big moves or be more dynamic to help get up a route but that comes at a risk of falling! Thankfully a couple of the guys at my club will always egg me on, banter and help so we began practise falls which in the end was a bit of fun. I'm very lucky to have such people at the club as while I do push myself and have no difficulty in motivating myself and am coming to learn a lot more about analysing what I'm thinking or doing when I find something difficult in a route, it is good to have others for that bit of support and who are willing to help as well.
Wow, that's pretty impressive. Sadly I'm not totally devoid of fear yet.
I think at least for now I'm still working on reducing my fear of falling as top rope falls are a bit different from lead climb falls so walk before I can run on that; I properly started attacking that earlier this week as it was just obvious how it can hold me back. I'm short and so I do have to make some big moves or be more dynamic to help get up a route but that comes at a risk of falling! Thankfully a couple of the guys at my club will always egg me on, banter and help so we began practise falls which in the end was a bit of fun. I'm very lucky to have such people at the club as while I do push myself and have no difficulty in motivating myself and am coming to learn a lot more about analysing what I'm thinking or doing when I find something difficult in a route, it is good to have others for that bit of support and who are willing to help as well.
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