UKC

Right, so me and a friend are planning on heading up Snowdonia this weekend, we've done the Snowdon plenty of times and wanted something a little different for this next trip.

We're planning on wildcamping friday - sunday but somewhere completely out the way where we can find some hidden gems, a lot of people have mention the Moelwyns and the Rhinogs, we want some challenging walks/scrambles...what we want to know is;
-which one is best for some picturesque wildcamping spots?
-wheres the best place to leave the car overnight without being charge through the roof?
-is there any rivers/lakes we can do a spot of fishing?
-which one has better walks/scrambles?

cheers guys!!

In reply to AdEvo:

The Rheinogau are very remote, so remote that last time I went there ages ago you could hardly find the paths because they were so overgrown.
Regarding parking, I'd be more concerned about having the car broken into than the parking costs, although there weren't any charges at the Graig ddu isaf carpark when I was there it is a long way off the main road and there are scroats everywhere it seems.

In reply to AdEvo:

There is camping and car parking at Cwm Bychan Farm below Rhinog Fawr. You may be able to leave your car there even if you are not camping..

In reply to gethin_allen:

ahh right, what about the Moelwyns? still the same sort of terrain? We do want to do a couple days wild camping, but if thats the case i can feel a small circuit of snowdon and the glyders a better option :

In reply to AdEvo:

I'm just home after three days on the Rhinogs and Cadair Idris. I should have my blog uo this evening. I'll post a link then. I'll just say that the Rhinogs are great.

In reply to gethin_allen:

That's a sweeping - and basically inaccurate - generalisation. There are good paths to all the summits and on all popular circuits. The only issue is if you fail to find the paths (not all are marked on the maps) or decide to go seriously off-piste. Then, and only then, does the walking become difficult, but nowhere near impossible. The Rhinogau do have a reputation for hard walking though, so be prepared. The area to the north of the Roman Steps is a bit less visited, a bit wilder, so the paths that do exist here are less well travelled.


Car parking is as safe, or even safer in the Rhinogau, as in any other Welsh mountain area. I'm currently working on the new climbing guide and consequently my car's always being left in all manner of places with never a problem. Good advice has already been given about the Cwm Bychan campsite. It'll seem as if you're in the back of beyond when you get there.

There are wild camping spots by all the mountain lakes. Llyn Morwynion, Gloyw Lyn, Llyn Du, Llyn Hywel and Llyn Perfeddau are all popular camping spots. The very scenic Llyn Hywel can be exposed, but the nearby Llyn Perfeddau is more sheltered. There are fish in Llyn Hywel which I believe is stocked and a permit may be needed.

Similarly all the small lakes in the Moelwynion are suitable for wild camping and all are stocked with trout by local fishing clubs and a permit is definitely needed there. The terrain is easier for walking here and paths are more established but you're far more likely to see other people as well. With luck you might not see anyone in the Rhinogau, particularly away from the Roman Steps or Bwlch Drws Ardudwy areas.

I know both the Moelwynion and Rhinogau very well and if I had to choose, I'd go for the latter every time. On the whole the Rhinogau are more reminiscent of parts of north-western Scotland than other Welsh (or English) mountain areas. Why go for the usual stuff when you can have something a bit different?

HTH

Dave

In reply to AdEvo:

just to add that this is one of the few areas in N Wales (rhinogs) that I've had a problem with ticks (on the dog only, at least as far as I know)

In reply to toad:

Another vote for the Rhinogs. I've had some great wild camping trips there and know some idyllic and remote spots.

I'm loathe to say where on a public forum, as I want to keep them that way, but have look at the map and do some research. Some of the best ones have no paths to them

Enjoy!

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In reply to AdEvo:
Very different terrain for the most part.. At times in the section between siabod and the moelwyns proper it gets rhinog like.. The south rhinogs are very different to the north though, the character of them changes a lot as you love south of the two main Rhinog peaks.

Car parking is pretty safe. I never had an issue and lived in north wales for about 10 years all up. Just be sensible what you leave on display.

I prefer the moelwyns, probably just familiarity. But both have plenty of lakes and camping spots.

For the rhinogs you could look at the bus or train and do a point to point traverse between the estuaries...

In reply to AdEvo:

Moelwyns are great, Rhinogs are better . I've probably spent more time in the Moelwyns as they are closer to where I grew up. Rhinogs feel that extra bit remoter and rougher than most places in Wales. Some photos from each:

Moelwyns:
http://www.scottishhills.com/html/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopi...
http://www.scottishhills.com/html/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopi...

Rhinogs:
http://www.scottishhills.com/html/modules.php?name=Trip_Report&topicid=...

In reply to Dave Williams:


I can only say what I saw, but you're obviously the king of everything Rheinogau related so I'll leave you to it.

In reply to gethin_allen:
Snowdon and the Rhinogs is a bit like Cheddar cheese and a fine blue veined cheese, everyone likes cheddar but you need to try the blue cheese a couple of times and you will love it.

In reply to robert-hutton:

I didn't say that we didn't have a good time there or that the fact it was so remote meant we spent the entire day (which I think may have been a bank holiday weekend because i remember going up cadair idris the day before/after so must have had 3 days in the area) without seeing anyone was a bad thing. Even if we did expend a lot more energy going a much shorter distance than we had intended.

In reply to gethin_allen:

They certainly aren't 'very remote'.. Not sure where Dave gets that one from. They may feel it but I there's few places in snowdonua which are even remotely remote..

There's a few Cwms in the Carneddau when you do feel well away from it and get a long way from a road for Wales..

In reply to AdEvo:

There are a handful of scrambles around. The NE ridge of Moel yr Hydd is great fun. Walk up to Llyn Cwmorthin then follow the ridge to the summit; first up small slabs then blocky steps. Lots of choices of difficulty.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/4550289887/in/album-7215762380316...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/4550928590/in/album-7215762380316...

In the Rhinogs there is a scrambles up the south face of Rhinog Fawr, described in Scrambles and Easy Climbs in Snowdonia. It's quite a fragmented route but wild and interesting. The book gives it a g3 but I found only one step worthy of that, and it's all pretty avoidable.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepeacock/sets/72157629088017496

In reply to AdEvo:

As promised here is a link to my blog. I hope it shows something of what the Rhinogs about.http://howlingmist.blogspot.ie/

In reply to AdEvo:

I've spent quite a lot of time over the years in the Rhinogs, running, walking and camping, so I am a great fan of the area and recommend them. My only proviso would be that if the weather is c**p the northern section can be fairly soul destroying. Finding tracks and paths without good visibility is hopeless and the ground can be very boggy (or solid rock) for camping when wet.

There is also good parking at the eastern end of the Roman steps, at a farm on the edge of the forestry, I forget the name.

I don't know the Moelwyns well so cant comment on them.

In reply to AdEvo:

We've planned to go from the campsite at Nant Col up to Diffwys onto Y Llethr then up over the Rhinogs and loop back into Nant Col campsite. its around a 19 mile route but we're only going to be walking all day saturday and sunday morning. Not sure if 19 miles is a bit long as I've unsure on what the terrain is like.

Another option was to look at the Glyders, can anyone give me some info on those please?

In reply to AdEvo:

Hard to fit 2 days on the glyders, the full traverse, Capel to Llanberis, is a long single day.

If going there I'd loop into the Carneddau as well as camping is more tolerated that side.

In reply to AdEvo:

Going should be fairly straightforward (uphill) onto Llethr, then scrambling about a bit over the Rhinogs. The route down off R. Fach and then up R. Fawr can be tricky to see and find. It is north of the Roman steps that paths become a little "vague" and mainly trod by goats!
You may like to camp by Morwynion (good spot if empty) and then see how it goes on Sunday, there's opportunities to shortcut back if you don't have the time.

I don't think there are trout in Morwynion, I've never seen any movement of fish and carried my rod up there once. Be interested to know if you see anything in there, but it is full of feed and aquatic life - skinny dipping after a hard day is recommended!

In reply to AdEvo:
I presume you intend looping south from the campsite and climb Diffwys from Cwm Bodlyn via the old packhorse bridge at Pont Scethin. You won't have any problems as virtually all the high walking is on grass, the heather and often hidden boulders only really become an issue beyond Llethr. Llyn Hywel is an obvious overnight camping spot. Your best option with Rhinog Fach is to bag the summit as a quick up and down, either after pitching camp or before from the col between Llethr and Rhinog Fach, having temporarily stashed your packs somewhere. Okay, so far, so good.

The big challenge is getting from Rhinog Fach to Rhinog Fawr - and it's one not to be underestimated. Best not to walk off Rhinog Fach's northern flank down to Bwlch Drws Ardudwy due to difficult and pathless terrain, especially as you've never been there before. Better to descend from Cwm Hywel to the Bwlch Drws Ardudwy path via Llyn Cwmhosan. There's an obvious, easy to follow path all the way. Once at the Bwlch DO NOT follow any of the false trails that lead you onto the southern slopes of Rhinog Fawr as all end in a seemingly endless, extensive scree and boulder field - purgatory of epic proportions in every sense if ascending. (These paths result in people taking the direct route down from Rhinog Fawr, first via a narrow gully, then down the blocky scree.) Instead it is better to skirt Rhinog Fawr to the east and work your way up its eastern flank overlooking the Crawcwellt forest. As you get closer to the summit, you'll hopefully find a path as there are a few. Lower down there are none and the walking may be quite hard here.

Alternatively, traverse the eastern flank and aim for Llyn Du on Rhinog Fawr's northern flank from where a good path leads to the summit. A straightforward descent via Foel Ddu will then lead back to the campsite. I've never tried to do it, but reaching Llyn Du at the end of a rather long first day is not inconceivable and would then give you quite a relaxed final half day. There's a good wild camping spot by that lake as well.

In reply to Dave Williams:
Once at the Bwlch DO NOT follow any of the false trails that lead you onto the southern slopes of Rhinog Fawr as all end in a seemingly endless, extensive scree and boulder field - purgatory of epic proportions in every sense if ascending.


The above is far more sensible advice from Dave "purgatory of epic proportions" sums it up nicely if you go wrong. I should have mentioned the "going wrong" bit!!

But hey, you've left home already full of enthusiasm and beer for the weekend ahead........don't forget to let us know how it went.

I disagree about gaining the summit of Rhinog Fawr from Bwlch Drws Ardudwy. There is a decent path that is quite easy to follow, but is not obvious to find. The path ascends the shallow gully to the left of this photo and turns to the left, up through the left fork of the shallow gully that is in shadow:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5441/7153549507_8bfb20e976_b.jpg

You can see the path in this photo taken from the slopes of Rhinog Fach. It is the light coloured streak on the scree in the bottom centre:

http://images.summitpost.org/medium/673968.jpg

The path doesn't stay on scree for long and although steep, is relatively easy to follow and eventually brings you to the summit through this slot, which is a satisfying finale:

http://www.c8h10n4o2.org/walking/cambrian_way/rhinogfawr2.html

In reply to AdEvo:

Rhinogau: my favourite bit of Snowdonia.

In reply to rubisco:
Not sure about that...

There was a fell race that went Fawr to Fach and that few mile section to the bwlch ruined people's races..

I always found the running tedious through there, the grit is nowhere near as grippy as peak grit in wet that it always seemed to be, so it was hard going in the wet and there are a myriad of paths.. Some rights of ways, some goat trails..

In reply to AdEvo:

I wonder if you returned safely, or whether the Rhinogs goats got you?