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So if you had 4 weeks to train before a trip to the alps and you don't have much fitness, what would be your strategy?
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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Ok. I went 2 weeks after an appendectomy so maybe that was a bit extreme. I didn't get much done!
Ok. I went 2 weeks after an appendectomy so maybe that was a bit extreme. I didn't get much done!
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In reply to Nick Alcock:
I was expecting that kind of reply lol, Most of the trips to the alps I have had, have been at this fitness level. Except for one trip, where I had been doing a bit of running for 2 months prior and it was so much more enjoyable.
I was expecting that kind of reply lol, Most of the trips to the alps I have had, have been at this fitness level. Except for one trip, where I had been doing a bit of running for 2 months prior and it was so much more enjoyable.
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In reply to Camm:
Yes, it's not very enjoyable when you struggle to walk to Montenvers, let alone getting on a route!
Yes, it's not very enjoyable when you struggle to walk to Montenvers, let alone getting on a route!
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In reply to Camm:
Depends how long you're going to the alps for, and where you're going. If you're going for long enough, you can get pretty fit during your stay. If you're in Chamonix, who even needs fitness when you have telepheriques?
Depends how long you're going to the alps for, and where you're going. If you're going for long enough, you can get pretty fit during your stay. If you're in Chamonix, who even needs fitness when you have telepheriques?
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In reply to Camm:
Bar National....get hammered....hit on every german or french girl possible...great memories...poor success!
Bar National....get hammered....hit on every german or french girl possible...great memories...poor success!
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In reply to Camm:
Not much you can do in a month that's worth it. Risk of injury far outweighs any benefits.
Go for a few runs. Lose half a stone*, and another half a stone from your pack. Spend your evenings looking in guidebooks for routes with a gentle walk in?
* Assuming you can afford to do that, obviously.
Not much you can do in a month that's worth it. Risk of injury far outweighs any benefits.
Go for a few runs. Lose half a stone*, and another half a stone from your pack. Spend your evenings looking in guidebooks for routes with a gentle walk in?
* Assuming you can afford to do that, obviously.
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In reply to Camm:
Fill a day sac with water bottles to a weight of about 12-15kg. Walk briskly taking in a reasonable ascent over 30 mins to an hour a day (for the whole walk, not just the ascent) every day for the next four weeks. You can always shed water if you're struggling with the weight until you get fitter. After several weeks, congratulations, you are now winter climbing fit. The Alps will be a piece of cake. Simples.
Fill a day sac with water bottles to a weight of about 12-15kg. Walk briskly taking in a reasonable ascent over 30 mins to an hour a day (for the whole walk, not just the ascent) every day for the next four weeks. You can always shed water if you're struggling with the weight until you get fitter. After several weeks, congratulations, you are now winter climbing fit. The Alps will be a piece of cake. Simples.
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In reply to Richard Alderton:
Nonsense. Loads of hillwalking with a heavy sack will make a big difference.
> Not much you can do in a month that's worth it.
Nonsense. Loads of hillwalking with a heavy sack will make a big difference.
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In reply to Camm:
I'm in a similar position, coming back from injury with 3 weeks to my flight, and very little free time. I've got a four hour raid on Ben Ledi (door to door) a couple of times a week for the next 3 weeks planned!
I'm in a similar position, coming back from injury with 3 weeks to my flight, and very little free time. I've got a four hour raid on Ben Ledi (door to door) a couple of times a week for the next 3 weeks planned!
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In reply to Camm:
Don't worry you don't need to be fit for a trip to the Alps. Mostly it involves driving, sitting on a train, or plane. Very little walking. You'll be fine.
Don't worry you don't need to be fit for a trip to the Alps. Mostly it involves driving, sitting on a train, or plane. Very little walking. You'll be fine.
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In reply to Richard Alderton:
Depends on the individual. Some people take forever to build fitness and a lucky few can get fit in a week.
Not a bad idea. Keep off the pies and stickies. No fizzies either.
Here are some ideas that don't need fancy gear or many huge slices of time. Floor exercises and isometrics about 4 or 5 times a week. Run up every staircase you come to and don't do escalators or lifts if there is a stair. Do acouple of sprints of two or three hundred metres each week (pile it on as though a leopard was chasing you) and a hill outing with at least 600 vertical metres (can be same 300m hill twice)(adjust load/speed to suit).
If you are a swimmer then swimming along the bottom of the pool is a good workout.
> Not much you can do in a month that's worth it. Risk of injury far outweighs any benefits.
Depends on the individual. Some people take forever to build fitness and a lucky few can get fit in a week.
> Go for a few runs. Lose half a stone*, and another half a stone from your pack. Spend your evenings looking in guidebooks for routes with a gentle walk in?
Not a bad idea. Keep off the pies and stickies. No fizzies either.
Here are some ideas that don't need fancy gear or many huge slices of time. Floor exercises and isometrics about 4 or 5 times a week. Run up every staircase you come to and don't do escalators or lifts if there is a stair. Do acouple of sprints of two or three hundred metres each week (pile it on as though a leopard was chasing you) and a hill outing with at least 600 vertical metres (can be same 300m hill twice)(adjust load/speed to suit).
If you are a swimmer then swimming along the bottom of the pool is a good workout.
In reply to Camm:
It's a bit dull but interval training on a bike can give impressively fast fitness gains and you don't even need to put that many hours in
It's a bit dull but interval training on a bike can give impressively fast fitness gains and you don't even need to put that many hours in
In reply to Camm:
I'd definitely aim for 3 solid weeks of training, and the last week off to get there fresh.
i've used cross trainer a bit and quite like it. I tend to find intervals more time efficient, so like: 5mins warmup, 2 mins pretty hard, 1 min very slow (heart rate and breathing back under control), repeat say five times, then 5 min warm down. Listen to your body and tweak the times and reps so its tough but doesnt break you. Most machines have programmes built in that are similar.
If youre more motivated a rucsac of water bottlez/weights up fire escape stairs is more specific. Lift down ideally to save knees. As much as you can bear (none in my case!).
Id do the above 2 or ideally 3 times a week. Since its boring I reckon a day off between sessions is efficient, doing more wont get you much more gains if you're unfit, and boredom and injury risk go up!
i'd definitely try and do a decent hilly hike *in your mountain boots* at least once a week, with a substantial rucsac (ropes are good soft ballast). I reckon hours on feet count here, more even than the amount of vertical or distance.
Have a great trip!
I'd definitely aim for 3 solid weeks of training, and the last week off to get there fresh.
i've used cross trainer a bit and quite like it. I tend to find intervals more time efficient, so like: 5mins warmup, 2 mins pretty hard, 1 min very slow (heart rate and breathing back under control), repeat say five times, then 5 min warm down. Listen to your body and tweak the times and reps so its tough but doesnt break you. Most machines have programmes built in that are similar.
If youre more motivated a rucsac of water bottlez/weights up fire escape stairs is more specific. Lift down ideally to save knees. As much as you can bear (none in my case!).
Id do the above 2 or ideally 3 times a week. Since its boring I reckon a day off between sessions is efficient, doing more wont get you much more gains if you're unfit, and boredom and injury risk go up!
i'd definitely try and do a decent hilly hike *in your mountain boots* at least once a week, with a substantial rucsac (ropes are good soft ballast). I reckon hours on feet count here, more even than the amount of vertical or distance.
Have a great trip!
In reply to Camm:
I have never really bothered training much prior to going to the Alps. However fit you are, altitude will render it useless. To acclimatise, I have always walked up to climbs rather than getting the cable car for a day or two.
I have never really bothered training much prior to going to the Alps. However fit you are, altitude will render it useless. To acclimatise, I have always walked up to climbs rather than getting the cable car for a day or two.
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In reply to ByEek:
That's probably mental rather than physical. In 2-3 days you get very few physiological changes, in fact they often say that's the worst time as your body is then starting to suffer before the adaptations start.
They always so runners should either turn up a week before the race, or the night before, if racing at altitude.
I think being fitter helps, especially at the lower altitudes of 1500-3000m. The more efficient you are at using oxygen the easier it is. You'll still suffer but probably not as much.
But I do find it kind of random how much I'm affected, sometimes I can be at 2500-2800 and feel little effects, other times I'll really struggle.
I'd just do some running/biking etc asap, at least get 2-3 weeks in of decent training, drop some weight, gain some muscle, get fitter, get some conditioning in.
> I have never really bothered training much prior to going to the Alps. However fit you are, altitude will render it useless. To acclimatise, I have always walked up to climbs rather than getting the cable car for a day or two.
That's probably mental rather than physical. In 2-3 days you get very few physiological changes, in fact they often say that's the worst time as your body is then starting to suffer before the adaptations start.
They always so runners should either turn up a week before the race, or the night before, if racing at altitude.
I think being fitter helps, especially at the lower altitudes of 1500-3000m. The more efficient you are at using oxygen the easier it is. You'll still suffer but probably not as much.
But I do find it kind of random how much I'm affected, sometimes I can be at 2500-2800 and feel little effects, other times I'll really struggle.
I'd just do some running/biking etc asap, at least get 2-3 weeks in of decent training, drop some weight, gain some muscle, get fitter, get some conditioning in.
Post edited at 14:06
In reply to Camm:
can you get to somewhere like Win Hill and walk up it lots of times with a heavy rucksack?
I'd probably do something like that for three weeks and go for the odd bike ride before sleeping and resting and eating well for a week.
can you get to somewhere like Win Hill and walk up it lots of times with a heavy rucksack?
I'd probably do something like that for three weeks and go for the odd bike ride before sleeping and resting and eating well for a week.
Post edited at 19:00
In reply to ByEek:
Not quite.
I trained for 6 months prior to a Mt Blanc accent with a guide. Lots of mountain crags with heavy packs and bivvy gear. Plenty of ale and exercise, and working hard with a hangover to mimic altitude sickness.
My acclimatisation was telepherique to the Aiguille du Midi, a night in the Cosmiques and then the Cosmiques arête.
A week of bad weather laid any plans of Mt Blanc out. On the next to last day we went up to Petite Aiguille Verte and the weather cleared. We descended and went straight from the railway to the summit of Mt Blanc and down to the Goutier in a long afternoon.
Fitness counts a great deal.
> I have never really bothered training much prior to going to the Alps. However fit you are, altitude will render it useless. To acclimatise, I have always walked up to climbs rather than getting the cable car for a day or two.
Not quite.
I trained for 6 months prior to a Mt Blanc accent with a guide. Lots of mountain crags with heavy packs and bivvy gear. Plenty of ale and exercise, and working hard with a hangover to mimic altitude sickness.
My acclimatisation was telepherique to the Aiguille du Midi, a night in the Cosmiques and then the Cosmiques arête.
A week of bad weather laid any plans of Mt Blanc out. On the next to last day we went up to Petite Aiguille Verte and the weather cleared. We descended and went straight from the railway to the summit of Mt Blanc and down to the Goutier in a long afternoon.
Fitness counts a great deal.
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In reply to Camm:
Are you likely to be climbing with a fitter partner/partners? That's when it can be an issue if your lack of fitness thwarts somebody else's aspirations.
Do what you can in advance and get to the Alps a few days in advance of your partners - a couple of high level walks/hut nights will give you an acclimatization edge that will effectively negate any fitness inequality.
Are you likely to be climbing with a fitter partner/partners? That's when it can be an issue if your lack of fitness thwarts somebody else's aspirations.
Do what you can in advance and get to the Alps a few days in advance of your partners - a couple of high level walks/hut nights will give you an acclimatization edge that will effectively negate any fitness inequality.
In reply to BnB:
This is exactly what I would recommend - walking everyday with a heavy sack. One plan is to load up your sack with *exactly* the gear you will have in the Alps. Walking with the sack like this everyday helps you fine-tune what you take and where to put it in the sac; make adjustments to all the straps; and find the best places to attach cameras and water-bottles to the outside of the sack so that they are conveniently at hand whilst not swinging about.
The final advantage of this approach is that when you heave the sack out of your car in the Alps, and put it on your back, its weight will not come as a shock - in fact the sack will almost seem like an old friend or at least a tolerable acquaintance!
This is exactly what I would recommend - walking everyday with a heavy sack. One plan is to load up your sack with *exactly* the gear you will have in the Alps. Walking with the sack like this everyday helps you fine-tune what you take and where to put it in the sac; make adjustments to all the straps; and find the best places to attach cameras and water-bottles to the outside of the sack so that they are conveniently at hand whilst not swinging about.
The final advantage of this approach is that when you heave the sack out of your car in the Alps, and put it on your back, its weight will not come as a shock - in fact the sack will almost seem like an old friend or at least a tolerable acquaintance!
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In reply to Camm:
If you're really unfit then just hill walk or cycle loads at an intensity you can keep up for hours. Interval training isn't going to help you in your 10th hour on a route it's only going to get you injured before you go.
It depends what you mean by don't have much fitness as well, if you do an active job or you play sports or run a bit already but have just lost a bit of fitness then your body will probably be able to take and benefit from something more specific.
If you're really unfit then just hill walk or cycle loads at an intensity you can keep up for hours. Interval training isn't going to help you in your 10th hour on a route it's only going to get you injured before you go.
It depends what you mean by don't have much fitness as well, if you do an active job or you play sports or run a bit already but have just lost a bit of fitness then your body will probably be able to take and benefit from something more specific.
In reply to John Stainforth:
Great idea.
> This is exactly what I would recommend - walking everyday with a heavy sack. One plan is to load up your sack with *exactly* the gear you will have in the Alps. Walking with the sack like this everyday helps you fine-tune what you take and where to put it in the sac; make adjustments to all the straps; and find the best places to attach cameras and water-bottles to the outside of the sack so that they are conveniently at hand whilst not swinging about.
> The final advantage of this approach is that when you heave the sack out of your car in the Alps, and put it on your back, its weight will not come as a shock - in fact the sack will almost seem like an old friend or at least a tolerable acquaintance!
Great idea.
In reply to Dave the Rave:
True - but the thing that got you to the top of Mont Blanc without too much difficulty was having been to 3800 for a day or so and then a plod up the Petit Vert. In the meantime you were staying at 1000m ASL.
Had you rocked up on day one and headed up the Blanc, you would have really felt it.
Done it twice myself - always in week two after numerous forays reasonably high up.
> Fitness counts a great deal.
True - but the thing that got you to the top of Mont Blanc without too much difficulty was having been to 3800 for a day or so and then a plod up the Petit Vert. In the meantime you were staying at 1000m ASL.
Had you rocked up on day one and headed up the Blanc, you would have really felt it.
Done it twice myself - always in week two after numerous forays reasonably high up.
In reply to ByEek:
Oooh, that's conflicting with what Roadrunner5 said:
> True - but the thing that got you to the top of Mont Blanc without too much difficulty was having been to 3800 for a day or so and then a plod up the Petit Vert. In the meantime you were staying at 1000m ASL.
Oooh, that's conflicting with what Roadrunner5 said:
> That's probably mental rather than physical. In 2-3 days you get very few physiological changes, in fact they often say that's the worst time as your body is then starting to suffer before the adaptations start.
In reply to NottsRich:
Perhaps. Personal opinion I guess. But I have always turned up to the Alps a punter and left a lean-mean climbing machine after two weeks, the first couple of days generally being absolute hell.
> Oooh, that's conflicting with what Roadrunner5 said:
Perhaps. Personal opinion I guess. But I have always turned up to the Alps a punter and left a lean-mean climbing machine after two weeks, the first couple of days generally being absolute hell.
In reply to ByEek:
This sort of explains why you are less fit after a few days:
http://anthro.palomar.edu/adapt/adapt_3.htm
There's more here:
http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/acclimatization-to-altitude.html
" One approach is to compete within 24 hours of arrival at altitude. Not much acclimatization will have taken place but most of the classical symptoms of altitude sickness will not have had time to manifest. After the intial 24 hours, dehydration and sleep disturbances become more prominent."
This nicely shows the change in haemocrit level, after a week you have a decent increase so should really feel fitter.
http://www.jpp.krakow.pl/journal/archive/11_07_s5/pdf/811_11_07_s5_article....
Its the first few days when your heart really isn't happy at whats going on.
I found this in 2013, I raced Siere Zinal which is a 20 mile trail race for much of it you are above 2200m. Not super high but enough to be hurting when trying to run fast. I got there 2.5 days before the race and was just terrible come race day. Yet most UK runners do the same, and go out to a race 2-3 days before hand, about the worst thing we can do.
This sort of explains why you are less fit after a few days:
http://anthro.palomar.edu/adapt/adapt_3.htm
There's more here:
http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/acclimatization-to-altitude.html
" One approach is to compete within 24 hours of arrival at altitude. Not much acclimatization will have taken place but most of the classical symptoms of altitude sickness will not have had time to manifest. After the intial 24 hours, dehydration and sleep disturbances become more prominent."
This nicely shows the change in haemocrit level, after a week you have a decent increase so should really feel fitter.
http://www.jpp.krakow.pl/journal/archive/11_07_s5/pdf/811_11_07_s5_article....
Its the first few days when your heart really isn't happy at whats going on.
I found this in 2013, I raced Siere Zinal which is a 20 mile trail race for much of it you are above 2200m. Not super high but enough to be hurting when trying to run fast. I got there 2.5 days before the race and was just terrible come race day. Yet most UK runners do the same, and go out to a race 2-3 days before hand, about the worst thing we can do.
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In reply to Roadrunner5:
Good point. Day 3 of any skiing trip is always the hardest.
> I found this in 2013, I raced Siere Zinal which is a 20 mile trail race for much of it you are above 2200m. Not super high but enough to be hurting when trying to run fast. I got there 2.5 days before the race and was just terrible come race day. Yet most UK runners do the same, and go out to a race 2-3 days before hand, about the worst thing we can do.
Good point. Day 3 of any skiing trip is always the hardest.
In reply to Roadrunner5:
Thanks, interesting information there. I'll bear it in mind when planning my next trip.
Thanks, interesting information there. I'll bear it in mind when planning my next trip.
In reply to Camm:
...but if you arrive 3 days before your climbing partners they will probably want a couple of easy mid height routes to warm up (on their day 1 and 2), then when they think they are ready for something more ambitious they will really suffer on their day 3, whilst you (on day 6) will be cruising. A cunning plan that cannot fail!
...but if you arrive 3 days before your climbing partners they will probably want a couple of easy mid height routes to warm up (on their day 1 and 2), then when they think they are ready for something more ambitious they will really suffer on their day 3, whilst you (on day 6) will be cruising. A cunning plan that cannot fail!
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