UKC

I received my copy of the new guide today and have just noticed that no route lengths are given. I'm a bit miffed about this as being an old git with knackered knees and a history of laziness I prefer to carry a 30m rope and select routes accordingly. Is there any reason for this omission? I think this is the first guidebook I have ever bought that doesn't show route lengths. I know most routes will be "in" but wandering lines may leave me short especially if the belays are well back. ( Maybe I should have put my £30 towards a longer rope.)

In reply to john spence:

I doubt there's anything on the Eastern edges that you can't do with a 30 metre rope.

In reply to john spence:

They aren't by the route names any more but they're on the photographs measuring the crag......... I guess on the fact that the gritstone edges don't vary so much in height between routes... unless you're doing a REALLY long traverse!

In reply to john spence:
Hi John

We have not included route lengths for single pitch routes since 2009 in all Rockfax books, but instead indicate the lengths of the sections of cliff directly on the topo. This was done for a number of reasons. Firstly, and mainly connected with sport climbing, it appeared that people were taking these heights as gospel truth and trusting their lives to them when lowering off sport routes. There are a number of problems when trying to assess the precise length of routes. Sport routes sometimes get extended when re-bolted after publication; people often stand in different places when belaying; people cut sections of their ropes and then forget; ropes sold as a certain length can often be longer than described but not always hence knowing how long your rope is can be imprecise.

Another factor is that the lengths given in guidebooks over many years have been wildly inaccurate. My record is managing a quoted 80m (double) pitch on a 45m rope with belays and knots! Some of these inaccuracies are now being revealed with the modern photo-topos where you can see adjacent routes with very different quoted lengths but quite obviously the same overall height. Luckily it seems most of these inaccuracies are guidebook authors being generous or over enthusiastic when describing the said lines since they are almost always longer than in reality.

So our policy for the last 6 years has been as stated above, a general height on the topo and leave the final assessment of the rope required to the climber. We try now to also avoid text comments like "can reach the ground when climbing on a 60m rope" just in case the rope we are using to measure this turns out to be a 66m rope which is entirely possible since rope manufacturers have not defined a standard on this.

As mentioned by others, for Eastern Grit a 30m rope will be fine for the natural gritstone edges. You may struggle at Millstone, especially if you need to belay on the stakes which are set well back.

Alan

In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:
Thanks for taking the time to give that comprehensive response Alan. It makes perfect sense.( I had not noticed the heights on the photos....must pay more attention.)

In reply to john spence

I double up a 60m rope which means if there are belay problems (big, quarries or belays well back) I can drop one end but otherwise normally retain double rope flexibility for protection and reducing drag for leader and second.

So many route lengths on grit were so obviously wrong in the late 90s that I climbed for a while with a 2nd metre marked 30m rope (and used this to correct many guidebook lengths) but felt in the end felt this was a waste of my time and energy outside guidebook checking as the real information climbers need is things like exceptional hazzards and situations where double ropes are especially useful and how far it is to the belay (and problems with belay quality) rather than length of climbing on a route.

In reply to Rylstone_Cowboy:


Once you factor in having to find a belay, there are many such routes!

In reply to Simon Caldwell:
One route that springs to mind is Plexity at Millstone. Unless I was missing something the only belay I could find were the fence posts. I was right on the limit using a 50m.

It wasn't until I went new routing and listened to others writing up route descriptions that I realised almost ALL route lengths are wild guess done in the pub, along the lines of "hmm well I had some rope left at the belay so ... 40meters?"

In my naivety I had assumed someone came along with a length of static with meter intervals marked...or something. I realise now how stupid this sounds!

In reply to ralphio:
Parts of Agden Rocher require about 40m of rope to reach the fence that provides the only belay!

In reply to Kemics:
I always try to get an accurate length for at least one route per topo and then extrapolate

Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:

I used to have a corsican guide book that simply showed rope length required at the top of the page this took into account anchors. good book and layout