UKC

I'm bored and partnerless...is there a way of doing "trad" outside without a belayer? I'm imagining a top rope with an ascender or something like that. Is it possible and safe?

Thanks

In reply to phja:

Some useful stuff herehttp://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=419341 "Careful Now" safe shunting needs a bit of common sense and some practice.

In reply to phja:

Bored and partnerless is a big problem. I have 4/6 people I've climbed with on and off and sometimes getting somebody to climb feels like asking somebody to take on terminal illness. Having fun outdoors shouldn't be hard to talk people into. I'm based just north of the peak district.

In reply to deepstar:

Thanks...knew there'd be something posted before but couldn't think what to search for.

In reply to phja:

Google lead soloing and top rope soloing.
There is a lot of typed info to give you an idea of what is possible. Whether it is safe depends on you.

I quite enjoy lead soloing. Would always opt for a partner though.

In reply to zimpara:

I do not agree with a trad lead solo recommendation. It needs a lot of research, thinking on how to retreat/self-rescue, etc. Building anchors is also not that easy either. Lots of skills and practice is needed to make it safe. Showing how to do it is fairly straightforward, but can be deadly. I am not sure whether I'd climb with someone who has no idea what is he/she doing or lead on my own.

Top roping solo with a Petzl Shunt (and preferably with some sort of back up device, like Petzl Traxion or Wild Country Ropeman) would be a lot much better option. You can also do more climbing even if you have to set up top rope for each climb. While solo leading, you will spend a tiny amount of time actually climbing (flaking ropes, building anchors, leading, etc.).

Source: I have done a little bit of solo leading. The problem was, I was aiming for multi-pitches rather than perfectly straight and short single pitch cragging.

I am not discouraging you not to try any method (free solo, lead solo, top rope solo...), but do your research. There are very few devices which are designed to be used for soloing and their substitutes (Shunt, Grigri, etc.) can be deadly.

In reply to PPP:

Well you make your decision and you take your chances.

In reply to zimpara:

Exactly, but having not enough knowledge/experience is basically a suicide mission. I have witnessed an accident this year and since then, I probably became a little bit more cautious. The only reason of the accident was the over confidence of a person who bitten more than he could chew.

In reply to phja:

Hi, Petzl do not recommend using a shunt for self belay top roping see:

http://www.petzl.com/en/Sport/FAQ/can-i-use-the-shunt-to-self-belay#.VdjAOU...

I use a Petzl ascender for self belaying which I have used for many years but plan to buy a Petzl traction to back up the ascender.

http://www.petzl.com/en/Sport/Installation-on-one-single-rope-with-two-asce...

Hope this helps

In reply to Christheclimber:

Andy Kirkpatricks book Advanced Multi Pitch Climbing has a chapter on top roped solo, the book also mentioned that this was just an introduction and that someone should write an entire book on the subject.

I haven't tried top roped solo yet, but I'm keen to try it out on bolted routes first, I think the key would be to do it on routes you know you can climb with ease.

I've used a shunt plenty of times for top roped solo and never had any issues, Petzl don't recommend it for this purpose in case someone grabs hold of device during a fall which will prevent the cam from work. therefore its fine as long as you don't do this.

In reply to Christheclimber:

Andy Kirkpatricks book Advanced Multi Pitch Climbing has a chapter on top roped solo, the book also mentioned that this was just an introduction and that someone should write an entire book on the subject.

I haven't tried top roped solo yet, but I'm keen to try it out on bolted routes first, I think the key would be to do it on routes you know you can climb with ease.

I've used a shunt plenty of times for top roped solo and never had any issues, Petzl don't recommend it for this purpose in case someone grabs hold of device during a fall which will prevent the cam from work. therefore its fine as long as you don't do this.

In reply to phja:

I've seen people doing the sort of thing you're talking about, with a certain amount of success. I think you have to choose your routes though, not all routes lend themselves to this sort of thing. Slabby ones seem to work better. But if you really want to climb alone, you could invest in a bouldering mat and also try soloing suitable routes, i.e. ones that you don't think you'll fall off.

In reply to RitchieArmstrong:

Just to clarify a detail, Ritchie - I'm assuming a typo. Your two statements:


appear somewhat contradictory; do you actually mean you haven't tried backroped (ie leading) solo yet? That would tie in better with the idea of starting out on bolted routes - less to worry about gearwise.

In reply to Christheclimber:

Nothing wrong with using a shunt to TR solo. Of course Petzl have to write it's not meant to be used for that, but everyone does anyway.

Personally I'd stick with double mini-traxion but since I only got the one I make do with that.

For OP, double trax setup here: http://stephdavis.co/blog/rope-solo-system/

In reply to RitchieArmstrong:

Petzl don't recommend a shunt as it can jam in an "overhang situation" and is not designed to withstand the shock of a fall. Ask at the Outside shop they have a mangled shunt from someone who self belayed on it. Yes plenty of people use a shunt but I wouldn't and don't. There are other recommended devices.

In reply to Removed User:

I use a Petzl ascender but will be buying a mini-traction to back up the ascender.

In reply to phja:

I use a shunt backed on a separate line with a gri gri. Probably overkill. Best would be a silent partner (rock exotica or wren industries) but they are not easy to find. I like Steph Davis set up.

In reply to phja:
I've done a lot of shunting but agree that a shunt on its own is far from failsafe. I've had one or two 'moments' in the past.

So now, as a caver, I use a slightly modified SRT rig. I use a proper climbing chest harness, attached to a Croll which is also attached to the sit harness. I then use a shunt or a basic ascender, attached to the sit harness, as a back-up. I use the Croll, Basic etc simply because I've got them, but as shown above in the thread, any ascender or grigri will do. (Steph Davies' system's particularly neat and simple.) The beauty of 'my' sort of set up is not only is there built-in redundancy, but if you think there's a chance you can't get up a pitch, you can easily swop to full prussiking mode. I carry a 3rd ascender and sling to use as a footloop if the worst happens. I usually use a semi-static rope and virtually always use a rope protector too.

Also, Scott's mention of using a separate line is a good one too; not having all your eggs in one basket etc. The other thing with having a separate line is that you could very easily transfer onto it in order to ab back down, (much easier than faffing around sorting out an abseil on an already weighted rope) - thus adding to your available options if you've failed on a move and prussiking up doesn't appeal for any reason. SRT cavers are well used to swinging about on ropes and transferring from one rope to another - as well as using a finger to release a Croll for reverse/ downward prussiking. Obviously, a climber unfamiliar with some of this stuff would need to practice first.

In reply to Ian Parsons:

sorry yes that's right

In reply to phja:

I found these videos on YouTube the other week.. Still not watched them yet, so you'll have to decide for yourself if they're what you're looking for.. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9fBvh8cyfH4QT3S_6SdS92ZRrfcmujxC

In reply to phja:


Yes it's possible. It can be relatively safe but there are pitfalls and since you're on your own accidents become more serious.

The basic set-up is a fixed top-rope, edge protector, some kind of ascender to suit the type of climbing you're doing (opinions differ*) and an independent back-up which may also serve as an easy escape route/descent.

*Toothed types that slide freely like the Petzl range of jammers are good for routes where you're mostly climbing upwards. Devices that can be slid freely and easily in both directions like a GriGri or a Shunt are better if you're working a route, repeating a section over and over. A simple clove hitch (with or without an additional krab to release easily) can work for occasional use.

Mostly it's not worth the effort if the goal is just a bit of fun climbing on your own. For that there's bouldering.
jk

In reply to Removed User:


The double Mini Traxion set-up sort of deals with operator error in leaving the toothed cam latched back or accidentally retracting it assuming you only forget activate one of the cams of course. It is however useless against a stripped sheath which the Mini Traxion seem annecdotally more prone to causing than the standard ascended (relatively unlikely in both cases). Unless you're into big-walling and happen to have a Mini Traxion collection it has always seemed to me like a waste of money and effort having both on the same strand, doubling up the wrong thing. Two devices on parallel rope strands... less pointless.

jk

In reply to jkarran:
Think I got the trax cheap on gumtree. I've only ever used it with old fuzzy ropes and haven't had issues. Using a quick chest rig made of slings to hold them upright and weighing the bottom of the rope once you're more than a couple meters off the ground the rope is snug in the trax the fall factors must be ridiculously small, probably not even approaching TR fall factors. I can see how if you took a massive lob with it trailing behind you or underneath you there would be risk to the sheath from the trax teeth but if you're rigging it properly I just can't see it.

I read some people use a static rope with a thick sheath but I figure they probably do more soloing than I do.