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I know this has been done to death on various webpages but I’d appreciate some advice. My current bike (a 26” hardtail) is coming to the end of its life (having everything, apart from the frame, replaced multiple) so it may be time to fork out for a new bike. I ride mainly natural trails in the peak, Lakes and Scotland and normally for longer rides with as much climbing as descending. I’ve decided to make the leap to full suss, as although I can get down most things on a hardtail I’m getting a bit sick of feeling like I’m sitting on a pneumatic drill on rocky descents. So for a short travel XC focused full suss bike 29” seems to be the general consensus, however I always remember when I first got my bike I loved how responsive it felt, a bit like driving a sports car, and I would hate to lose that, Also I did have a go on my mates 29” hard tail and it felt a bit weird so I’m thinking would 27.5” be better for me (allthough these often seem quite heavy)? - anyone got any thoughts or had a go on a range of these style bikes?
In reply to ebdon:
Where do you ride most?
I think most people would agree 29" is great for XC type stuff but for more gravity oriented trails (unless your really tall) 650b is more fun.
Where do you ride most?
I think most people would agree 29" is great for XC type stuff but for more gravity oriented trails (unless your really tall) 650b is more fun.
In reply to ebdon:
For me, as a tall XC rider, making the change to a 29er about 6 years ago had a dramatic change on my riding (to the detriment of my rock climbing). OK it was also my first full suss, but I was riding both up and down stuff I wouldn't have managed previously, having much more fun and riding much further. More miles, more confidence.
I've never ridden a 650b, but before buying my 29er I did a demo day where I also rode a couple of 26 full sussers and that's what sold me on the 29er. So my advice to you is try and find somewhere doing that
For me, as a tall XC rider, making the change to a 29er about 6 years ago had a dramatic change on my riding (to the detriment of my rock climbing). OK it was also my first full suss, but I was riding both up and down stuff I wouldn't have managed previously, having much more fun and riding much further. More miles, more confidence.
I've never ridden a 650b, but before buying my 29er I did a demo day where I also rode a couple of 26 full sussers and that's what sold me on the 29er. So my advice to you is try and find somewhere doing that
In reply to ebdon:
Depending on the tyres on the bikes the difference between 26" and 650b can be a millimetre or two, obviously if both have the same tyres then it's a bit more but from the bikes I've seen then there isn't that much difference between the two. I demoed a 650b FS and didn't really notice any difference between that and my then current 26" FS - I ended up getting a 29er HT which is actually ideal for my riding. I've done alpine trails on it - I don't think I'd be any faster on a FS just less shook up.
Not sure why you say 27.5 is quite heavy - if a manufacturer does the same frame in all three sizes then given equivalent wheels and components the 29er will be heavier than 27.5" which will be heavier than the 26". My HT weighs 12.7Kg, you can get XC FS bikes that weigh less than that but they cost serious money, usually a carbon frame helps knock a kilogramme off the weight.
Depending on the tyres on the bikes the difference between 26" and 650b can be a millimetre or two, obviously if both have the same tyres then it's a bit more but from the bikes I've seen then there isn't that much difference between the two. I demoed a 650b FS and didn't really notice any difference between that and my then current 26" FS - I ended up getting a 29er HT which is actually ideal for my riding. I've done alpine trails on it - I don't think I'd be any faster on a FS just less shook up.
Not sure why you say 27.5 is quite heavy - if a manufacturer does the same frame in all three sizes then given equivalent wheels and components the 29er will be heavier than 27.5" which will be heavier than the 26". My HT weighs 12.7Kg, you can get XC FS bikes that weigh less than that but they cost serious money, usually a carbon frame helps knock a kilogramme off the weight.
In reply to Bob:
Cheers intersting point there about 26" and 27.5" actually being pretty similar in size. With the weight I mean there seems to be much less lightweight 27.5" bike then a 29" bikes around - which i suppose says something.
I mainly ride in the Dark Peak and the Lakes so am ok at long rock descents but crap at twisty woody ones, in fact my cornering generally is pretty awful - which is why i worry that a 29" bike would be worse in terms of my rubbish handeling, has any actually noticed this when making the change to bigger wheels or is it a bit of a myth?
Cheers intersting point there about 26" and 27.5" actually being pretty similar in size. With the weight I mean there seems to be much less lightweight 27.5" bike then a 29" bikes around - which i suppose says something.
I mainly ride in the Dark Peak and the Lakes so am ok at long rock descents but crap at twisty woody ones, in fact my cornering generally is pretty awful - which is why i worry that a 29" bike would be worse in terms of my rubbish handeling, has any actually noticed this when making the change to bigger wheels or is it a bit of a myth?
In reply to ebdon:
After having a go on my friends 29" hardtail I found it fast but very dull.
It flew over very small bumps and trail undulations, so good for climbing. When things got a bit rougher the increased inertia from the bigger wheels was restricting any steering input and it would just carry on going in a straight line (compared to a 26).
The only 650 I have ridden was a DH bike on a trail I hadn't ridden before so not comparable. But it felt nice and still just as responsive as my 26", but it was on Fort William (which is very rough).
Conclusion:
Big wheels are good if you want you mountain bike to handle like a road bike, but if you ride rough stuff regularly and enjoy the 'fight' stick with smaller wheels. There is nothing with 26".
PS I'm 6'3 as height has been mentioned
Mike
After having a go on my friends 29" hardtail I found it fast but very dull.
It flew over very small bumps and trail undulations, so good for climbing. When things got a bit rougher the increased inertia from the bigger wheels was restricting any steering input and it would just carry on going in a straight line (compared to a 26).
The only 650 I have ridden was a DH bike on a trail I hadn't ridden before so not comparable. But it felt nice and still just as responsive as my 26", but it was on Fort William (which is very rough).
Conclusion:
Big wheels are good if you want you mountain bike to handle like a road bike, but if you ride rough stuff regularly and enjoy the 'fight' stick with smaller wheels. There is nothing with 26".
PS I'm 6'3 as height has been mentioned
Mike
Post edited at 12:14
In reply to ebdon:
I recently changed from a 26" full sus to a 27.5" full sus and run the same type of tyres. It dosnt handle or feel different but it does roll a bit better.
Cant comment on 29" but my understanding is that is will roll a lot better than 26/27.5 at the expense of handling in tight suff.
The weight thing you mention might be down to what the bikes are built for, 27.5 tends to be put on 150mm+ trail/AM bikes whereas 29 is common on lighter XC bikes. Im sure that a decent XC bike built around 27.5 wheels wouldn't feel heavy.
I recently changed from a 26" full sus to a 27.5" full sus and run the same type of tyres. It dosnt handle or feel different but it does roll a bit better.
Cant comment on 29" but my understanding is that is will roll a lot better than 26/27.5 at the expense of handling in tight suff.
The weight thing you mention might be down to what the bikes are built for, 27.5 tends to be put on 150mm+ trail/AM bikes whereas 29 is common on lighter XC bikes. Im sure that a decent XC bike built around 27.5 wheels wouldn't feel heavy.
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In reply to MikeSP:
I think a lot depends on where you ride - I rarely ride at trail centres for example. As for inertia - I don't go fast enough for that to be a problem!
I think a lot depends on where you ride - I rarely ride at trail centres for example. As for inertia - I don't go fast enough for that to be a problem!
In reply to ebdon:
I certainly noticed it test riding 29rs.
I think the biggest differentiating factor is rider height - 29rs would be OK for me XC riding, but feel very slow and unresponsive on technical stuff. 27.5 still gave me advantages over 26, without the feeling of sluggishness - this is very frame dependent though
If you are in the peak, unless you are a giant the 27.5 would make more sense for the terrain.
The difference between 26 & 27.5 is the same as the diff between 27.5 & 29 if you have the same tyres... and it does make quite a difference... most noticeably to contact patch & therefore grip
> Cheers intersting point there about 26" and 27.5" actually being pretty similar in size. With the weight I mean there seems to be much less lightweight 27.5" bike then a 29" bikes around - which i suppose says something.
> I mainly ride in the Dark Peak and the Lakes so am ok at long rock descents but crap at twisty woody ones, in fact my cornering generally is pretty awful - which is why i worry that a 29" bike would be worse in terms of my rubbish handeling, has any actually noticed this when making the change to bigger wheels or is it a bit of a myth?
I certainly noticed it test riding 29rs.
I think the biggest differentiating factor is rider height - 29rs would be OK for me XC riding, but feel very slow and unresponsive on technical stuff. 27.5 still gave me advantages over 26, without the feeling of sluggishness - this is very frame dependent though
If you are in the peak, unless you are a giant the 27.5 would make more sense for the terrain.
The difference between 26 & 27.5 is the same as the diff between 27.5 & 29 if you have the same tyres... and it does make quite a difference... most noticeably to contact patch & therefore grip
In reply to Bob:
True, I normally ride downhill.
I rode the 29 around The Monkey and Follow the Dog at Cannock, so flat by trail centre standards.
If you are mostly riding bridleways and fireroads then a 29 seems more appealing.
True, I normally ride downhill.
I rode the 29 around The Monkey and Follow the Dog at Cannock, so flat by trail centre standards.
If you are mostly riding bridleways and fireroads then a 29 seems more appealing.
In reply to balmybaldwin:
Going off-topic slightly (but when has that stopped anything on internet forums?) I went from a 2005 Marin Mt Vision (26", FS) to a Cotic Solaris (29er HT) and have far more confidence on the HT. Other than the FS => HT change, the wheels obviously grew to 29" but also the tyres went from 2" to 2.35 front/ 2.2 rear and the pressures for them went from the 45-50psi range to 25/28. You could say that it was a move from old-school to new-school.
Which of those has made most difference to my confidence on the bike? I should say that my increased confidence/trust in the bike was from the first ride, before I'd even paid for it fully in fact, I went down a trail that I'd done just once about six weeks earlier on a 650b FS demo bike so didn't really "know" it and could just place the bike where I wanted and it would handle it. Some bikes you just get on with.
Going off-topic slightly (but when has that stopped anything on internet forums?) I went from a 2005 Marin Mt Vision (26", FS) to a Cotic Solaris (29er HT) and have far more confidence on the HT. Other than the FS => HT change, the wheels obviously grew to 29" but also the tyres went from 2" to 2.35 front/ 2.2 rear and the pressures for them went from the 45-50psi range to 25/28. You could say that it was a move from old-school to new-school.
Which of those has made most difference to my confidence on the bike? I should say that my increased confidence/trust in the bike was from the first ride, before I'd even paid for it fully in fact, I went down a trail that I'd done just once about six weeks earlier on a 650b FS demo bike so didn't really "know" it and could just place the bike where I wanted and it would handle it. Some bikes you just get on with.
In reply to Bob:
I recently got a new bike and went for 27.5. I was surprised sticking it next to my old 26 just how much bigger the tyres were. In theory the tyres were the same width but the difference was fecking huge.
For OP. What height are you? if you are short then 27.5 would probably work better although they will be exceptions eg Tracey Mosely aint exactly tall but uses 29.
Best thing is to get some decent demo time in. Try and borrow one for a weekend since a 29 will probably feel a tad odd initially. Much the same way, depending how old your bike is, some of the newer 27.5 geometry will.
> Depending on the tyres on the bikes the difference between 26" and 650b can be a millimetre or two, obviously if both have the same tyres then it's a bit more but from the bikes I've seen then there isn't that much difference between the two.
I recently got a new bike and went for 27.5. I was surprised sticking it next to my old 26 just how much bigger the tyres were. In theory the tyres were the same width but the difference was fecking huge.
For OP. What height are you? if you are short then 27.5 would probably work better although they will be exceptions eg Tracey Mosely aint exactly tall but uses 29.
Best thing is to get some decent demo time in. Try and borrow one for a weekend since a 29 will probably feel a tad odd initially. Much the same way, depending how old your bike is, some of the newer 27.5 geometry will.
In reply to KevinD:
I'm 5'11" so pretty average, my current bike is really designed for xc racing so i expect anything a bit more 'sporty' will feel quite different, saying that anything that involves me going over the handlebars less will be a good thing!
Saying all this I'll probably realise soon that i can’t afford anything anyway
I'm 5'11" so pretty average, my current bike is really designed for xc racing so i expect anything a bit more 'sporty' will feel quite different, saying that anything that involves me going over the handlebars less will be a good thing!
Saying all this I'll probably realise soon that i can’t afford anything anyway
In reply to ebdon:
The trait of 29 inch wheeled bikes being more ponderous in cornering has become less common as bike design has improved, and 27.5 inch wheeled bikes are generally thought to help in smoothing things out like 29 inch wheels do, but with a little bit more zip in picking up speed than 29 inch wheeled bikes can feel, more of a fun feeling when riding.
A nicely sorted 27.5 full sus might be the thing you're after, I reckon.
How much are you wanting to spend? The magazines can be quite helpful when people write in with a budget and type of riding in mind. What Mountain Bike especially.
Best thing is probably to read a load of reviews before demoing half a dozen or so.
The trait of 29 inch wheeled bikes being more ponderous in cornering has become less common as bike design has improved, and 27.5 inch wheeled bikes are generally thought to help in smoothing things out like 29 inch wheels do, but with a little bit more zip in picking up speed than 29 inch wheeled bikes can feel, more of a fun feeling when riding.
A nicely sorted 27.5 full sus might be the thing you're after, I reckon.
How much are you wanting to spend? The magazines can be quite helpful when people write in with a budget and type of riding in mind. What Mountain Bike especially.
Best thing is probably to read a load of reviews before demoing half a dozen or so.
Post edited at 14:21
In reply to ebdon:
I'm with bob on this one.
I'm still running a 26" full sus and have demoed a 650b and 29" Pivot (I ride a 2011 5 Spot and it was interesting to compare the two).
The pivot felt fast, but as I am only 5' 92 and 5/7s in my socks it just felt a bit "big". Like cowhorns on my cross bike. That said I ride my cross bike at Cannock and Llandegla.....
The 650b was fine, slightly slower on the turns but not really that much difference. I like the flickability of the smaller wheelset - great to chuck in flick turns on Hully Gully - not something a stumpy fecker like me could do on a 29 inche wheelset.
i think the industry has left 26" behind though. I'd love a new set of forks but the choice is limited, even more so when you have to factor in steerertype.
It's all gone a bit betamax for the 26"......
I'm with bob on this one.
I'm still running a 26" full sus and have demoed a 650b and 29" Pivot (I ride a 2011 5 Spot and it was interesting to compare the two).
The pivot felt fast, but as I am only 5' 92 and 5/7s in my socks it just felt a bit "big". Like cowhorns on my cross bike. That said I ride my cross bike at Cannock and Llandegla.....
The 650b was fine, slightly slower on the turns but not really that much difference. I like the flickability of the smaller wheelset - great to chuck in flick turns on Hully Gully - not something a stumpy fecker like me could do on a 29 inche wheelset.
i think the industry has left 26" behind though. I'd love a new set of forks but the choice is limited, even more so when you have to factor in steerertype.
It's all gone a bit betamax for the 26"......
Post edited at 22:29
In reply to John Rushby:
One thing I would like to do at some point is borrow one of the 26/27.5 switchable frames and blind(ish) test the two wheels against each other to see if there is any usefully noticeable difference with just the wheels and not all other changes which have come in.
Yup. Its a major part of why I got a new bike. Hunting down parts for the old one just didnt seem worth it.
> The 650b was fine, slightly slower on the turns but not really that much difference.
One thing I would like to do at some point is borrow one of the 26/27.5 switchable frames and blind(ish) test the two wheels against each other to see if there is any usefully noticeable difference with just the wheels and not all other changes which have come in.
> It's all gone a bit betamax for the 26"......
Yup. Its a major part of why I got a new bike. Hunting down parts for the old one just didnt seem worth it.
In reply to John Rushby:
You might be interested in this from TF Tuned:
If you are running a classic 26” wheel hardtail or a 26” suspension frame with an 1- 1/8” steerer then it has become increasingly difficult to find a fork that will suit your existing frame/ wheel combo.
Great news fellow retro riders! The good people at Mojo have commissioned a one off production run of the Fox32 Performance series fork with the same NA2 air spring and FIT4 damper that are standard internals in the Factory level 2016 forks. The stock fork comes at 150mm but can be set at 100, 120, 130 or 140mm travel on request. Price: £489.00
This is a limited production run so if you are looking to upgrade an old favourite then please call us directly to order! 01373 826800
Ain't dead yet, I shall be building up a new 26 inch bike within the next month, just have to decide which frame to get out of a Banshee, Knolly or Yeti.
You might be interested in this from TF Tuned:
If you are running a classic 26” wheel hardtail or a 26” suspension frame with an 1- 1/8” steerer then it has become increasingly difficult to find a fork that will suit your existing frame/ wheel combo.
Great news fellow retro riders! The good people at Mojo have commissioned a one off production run of the Fox32 Performance series fork with the same NA2 air spring and FIT4 damper that are standard internals in the Factory level 2016 forks. The stock fork comes at 150mm but can be set at 100, 120, 130 or 140mm travel on request. Price: £489.00
This is a limited production run so if you are looking to upgrade an old favourite then please call us directly to order! 01373 826800
Ain't dead yet, I shall be building up a new 26 inch bike within the next month, just have to decide which frame to get out of a Banshee, Knolly or Yeti.
In reply to John Rushby:
It's not just wheel size which affects how a bike feels going into turns, I've noticed, as head angle changes can make things feel a little bit slower or more ponderous too, I found that when adjusting the amount of travel in the forks for my 26 inch Cotic Soul.
It definitely comes down to demoing different bikes and to find one with the desired characteristics...
It's not just wheel size which affects how a bike feels going into turns, I've noticed, as head angle changes can make things feel a little bit slower or more ponderous too, I found that when adjusting the amount of travel in the forks for my 26 inch Cotic Soul.
It definitely comes down to demoing different bikes and to find one with the desired characteristics...
Post edited at 20:25
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In reply to John Rushby:
I've been reading up on it a little bit, and 27.5 wheels are on average 5% heavier, when keeping everything the same but size between wheels, which is the kind of difference one can find between different makes of the same size, it seems that tweaking stem length as well as head tube angle can remove (the perception of) any difference between bikes of different wheel sizes.
It genuinely does start to seem impossible to generalise too much about wheel sizes, other than to do with how they can accelerate and also smooth out bumps.
I'd just finished building up my 26 inch Soul with it's straight steerer tube when the new 27.5 wheel size popped up.
I've been reading up on it a little bit, and 27.5 wheels are on average 5% heavier, when keeping everything the same but size between wheels, which is the kind of difference one can find between different makes of the same size, it seems that tweaking stem length as well as head tube angle can remove (the perception of) any difference between bikes of different wheel sizes.
It genuinely does start to seem impossible to generalise too much about wheel sizes, other than to do with how they can accelerate and also smooth out bumps.
I'd just finished building up my 26 inch Soul with it's straight steerer tube when the new 27.5 wheel size popped up.
In reply to ebdon: as above - worry about geometry - when I got a new bike I tried a lot - focus, trek, spesh, Stevens, giant before settling on a Scott - the variations in geometry could be felt as much as the wheel size difference.
That bikes a 29 ht - I'm now looking for a full susser so will have to repeat the process
That bikes a 29 ht - I'm now looking for a full susser so will have to repeat the process
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