UKC

Job adverts/is it me

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 Sharp 03 Sep 2015

In all the low skilled/low paid jobs I've had no one I've worked with has actually been that passionate about selling clothes, washing dishes, carrying food to someones table, serving drinks at a bar etc. Instead they're there to make money so they can do something they enjoy in their spare time or work towards something or generally as a means to a better end. So why are job adverts so unrealistic, looking for "dynamic individuals" or "enthusiastic team players" who realistically are going to be 15 year olds getting paid just shy of four quid an hour to stand by a sink in a sweaty kitchen and wipe half eaten food off peoples plates until 10pm at night. Or asking for a genuine enthusiasm about sales, i.e. getting paid a pittence to sell as much as possible so that the business they work for can do well. Do people like this exist and I've just been lucky enough not to work with them?

In trades or industries job adverts read more like they should, i.e. this is the qualifications and experience you need for the job. Simple as that. But in low skilled jobs it's like whoever writes the adverts feels the need to fill the space with bull shit. Why do you never see an advert for a KP that reads "must be able to wash dishes and turn up on time" or adverts for waiters that read "must be punctual and be able to talk to people" instead of "we are looking for an enthusiastic person to join our dynamic team, must have great communication skills, a genuine passion about fast food service and an unwaivering motivation for exceeding targets and reaching for the stars...£6.52 an hour, mcdonalds."

A recent post on ukc looking for trainee/unqualified climbing instructors asked for a "strong commitment to health and safety". What does that even mean? Are there people actually walking around who would describe themselves like that? "oh yes well actually health and safety has been a great interest of mine since I was 8 and first read the HSE's introduction to health and safety at work manual. it changed my life really and ever since then I've spent my life dedicated to the mission of improving the health and safety standards throughout all fields of my life and i'm sure my genuine commitment to health and safety will be an asset to your dynamic team". it's all utter wank

rant over
Post edited at 14:17
1
 Andy Hardy 03 Sep 2015
In reply to Sharp:

About that copywriting job, Ben - You're hired.
 Wft 03 Sep 2015
In reply to Sharp:

Good rant
 Scarab9 03 Sep 2015
In reply to Sharp:

not just you!

Baffles me.
 Andy DB 03 Sep 2015
In reply to Sharp:

Because HR need to justify their existence some how!
1
 greg_may_ 03 Sep 2015
In reply to Andy DB:
^^
This. Most definitely this. Also the inability of people to accurately articulate what they want, and what the demands of the job will entail you deliver, without making an job seem pointless.
Graeme G 03 Sep 2015
In reply to Sharp:

Would you rather the people cooking, serving and washing the dishes you eat off in a restaurant didn't give a shit for hygiene or your health?
1
 steveriley 03 Sep 2015
In reply to Sharp:

I had this in my email today
Hi «candidate_basic_first_name»,
I apologise the last e-mil attached the wrong brief please see attached."

Every bit of the process was littered with mistakes. Then I read this...
"You will have an eye for detail and be analytical in ensuring...". You have to laugh don't you, these are the people with the power to make and break. Does nobody poof read these days?
 Timmd 03 Sep 2015
In reply to Sharp:

What a brilliantly grumpy rant.

Hope you feel better for it.
drmarten 03 Sep 2015
In reply to Sharp:

>it's all utter wank

Of course it is and so is a lot of life, once you recognise it for that you can treat it with the contempt it deserves.
That was a great post - thanks - we need more quality rants like that.



 EddInaBox 03 Sep 2015
In reply to Father Noel Furlong:

> Would you rather the people cooking, serving and washing the dishes you eat off in a restaurant didn't give a shit for hygiene or your health?

It all just adds to the flavour, it's no coincidence that street food cooked in Johnny Foreigner Land tastes significantly better than the equivalent over here, a couple of days of d+v is a small price to pay.
 Clarence 03 Sep 2015
In reply to Sharp:

I expect a bit of HR bullshittery in the job description but the thing that really boils my bladderations is when the location is wildly inaccurate or over optimistic. I'm sure some of these HR folk are ex-estate agents. I have applied for jobs advertised as Derby only to find that they are actually located in Charnwood, Tamworth, Glossop, Hereford (apparently a short commute away) and London. If they need someone with a car why don't they just say so and I won't waste either of out time.
 goose299 03 Sep 2015
In reply to Sharp:

Fantastic rant! I couldn't agree more
ultrabumbly 03 Sep 2015
In reply to Clarence:

> "boils my bladderations"

I don't quite know what this means but I am going to steal it anyway as a decent English equivalent for "grinds my gears"
 gethin_allen 03 Sep 2015
In reply to Sharp:

Totally agree, this is up there with asking for the moon on a stick re qualifications and offering minimum wage.

One that my JSA "advisor" (actually as much use as a chocolate teapot) highlighted recently wanted a degree in biology or chemistry and ideally a post graduate degree and offered £16 kpa including shift allowance. I'd struggle to live off that considering my house costs £6 kpa + bills and I'd need to run a car for the job.
Lusk 03 Sep 2015
In reply to ultrabumbly:

OP, Quality rant +1



Catbert ...Ace!

Then there's the interview, 'Why do want this prestigious (shit) position?'
'Because I want the f*cking money, you moron.'

'What special qualities can you bring?'
'Clean dishes per chance?!?!'
 Mr Lopez 03 Sep 2015
In reply to Sharp:

Well said. It seems all the "modern" HR crap is about following scripts and regurgitating sentences being taught in a 3-day HR-lingo-which-sounds-good-but-means-nothing technical diploma course.

I just remembered a time back in my bar managing days, when working in a fairly large and posh establishment the HR department would write the ads along those lines. 99.9% of applications were utter shite, and the other 0.1% would fail miserably at interview time, so i asked to write and post the ads myself. My first ad was something like.

"XXXX bar is currently looking for of a full time bar-back to work alongside and support some of London's best bartenders in one of the capital's best cocktail bar.

The ideal candidate must have 2 arms, 2 legs, and a brain, and be able to use them for the duration of a full shift.

Arms and legs don't have to be your original limbs, but unfortunately the brain must be natural and functional. However if you lack one and still wish to apply we'll pass your application to the Restaurant team which is known to employ those born without one.

Work is hard, sweaty, and involves doing those tasks the bartenders are too cool to do themselves, but if you were looking for a holiday rather than a job you've already failed by ending up in the "Bar Jobs" section of this website. (If that is the case please forward your CV to the Restaurant team who may have something for you.)

On the other hand the pay is good, you'll be joining a great team who works hard but likes to have fun, and you can learn the trade from a great pool of knowledge if you have as little sense as we did and end up forging a career in the hospitality industry"


That evening in the office there was a lot of facepalming, stiffled giggles, and confusion in the face of the HR manager who didn't know whether to laugh or fire me...

We got so many good applications that we ended up hiring 3 bar-backs from that batch.
 MtnGeekUK 03 Sep 2015
In reply to Sharp:

My pet peeve is not advertising salaries. Many these days seem to feature one of the following:
"Exceeds national minimum wage"
"Competitive salary package"
"Salary dependent on skills and experience"

To me, this wastes everyone's time.

For the applicant, might go for something thinking its 40k, only to find its 20k (has happened to me!). If you then enquire, it makes you look like you're only applying for the money (I know you might be, but not a good first impression!?)

For the employer, may up with shed loads of unsuitable applications to sort through

Anyone else feel the same?
 squarepeg 03 Sep 2015
In reply to Sharp:

Yes yes yes!
Often wondered if its just me who isnt immersed in bullshit.
 a crap climber 03 Sep 2015
In reply to Sharp:
http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=3454#comic

Also, on the point about salaries - I recently started an application for a job that didn't state a salary. One of the first questions was "what is your current salary?" followed by "what is your expected salary for this position?". What are you supposed to say to that? Seems designed to encourage you to undersell yourself to avoid seeming too mercenary. I didn't bother finishing it.
Post edited at 22:38
Graeme G 03 Sep 2015
In reply to a crap climber:

My missus got asked that recently. Replied "commensurate with (the job) rates". She didn't get an interview. F*ck them.
In reply to SteveRi:

> Does nobody poof read these days?

Ooooooooh, yes!!!!

But only when Maisie's out of the house......
 Jon Stewart 03 Sep 2015
In reply to Sharp:

Yes, excellent.

> Or asking for a genuine enthusiasm about sales, i.e. getting paid a pittence to sell as much as possible so that the business they work for can do well. Do people like this exist and I've just been lucky enough not to work with them?

One problem with recruitment is that no matter how brilliantly or how badly a job/person spec is drafted, it makes no difference. If you ask for people who are self-driven and passionate about delivering first class customer service, or something, what you're asking for is someone who can pretend that they are whatever that is for the duration of an interview. Some people have that skill, others do not. The ones who seem convincing at interview get the jobs, but we all work with people who are useless and lazy. This proves that the recruitment process simply does not work, and certainly that horribly drafted adverts are not in any way helpful.
Wiley Coyote2 03 Sep 2015
In reply to MtnGeekUK:

> My pet peeve is not advertising salaries.

Some jobs just don't have a set rate. Employer B will simply pay you a few grand more than you are currently on to lure you away from Employer A. I know that when I retired my replacement came for a fraction of what I'd been getting but I'd arrived from a high-paying company so all my pay increases started from a higher base. His previous company had been a bunch of tightwads so he came cheap and never really caught up.

 BAdhoc 04 Sep 2015
In reply to a crap climber:

and this is why you always bump the figures slightly - and/or add in a "to take this job, with the extra commute/increase in hours/relocation I have calculated I would need..." or "I presume that the company runs a biannual review of salaries, and takes into account x/y/z..."
 Stone Idle 04 Sep 2015
In reply to Sharp:

The recruitment process can deliver, rank cynicism aside, so long as management keep their side of the bargain. No one is motivated if the business exploits staff and customers. On the other hand, treat folk right and you can get them to deliver, even for poor wages.
 Yanis Nayu 04 Sep 2015
In reply to Sharp:

Quality rant, and totally agree with you.
 Roberttaylor 05 Sep 2015
In reply to MtnGeekUK:

'Competitive salary'

When they tell you what it is, if it's too low say 'I didn't know it was competing at the f(*^%$& limbo'

Genuinely feel all job adverts should have to include a salary.
 Chris Harris 05 Sep 2015
In reply to Roberttaylor:

> 'Competitive salary'

> When they tell you what it is, if it's too low say 'I didn't know it was competing at the f(*^%$& limbo'

> Genuinely feel all job adverts should have to include a salary.

Another favourite:

"On-target earnings ~£50k."

The target being virtually unattainable is not usually mentioned.....

OP Sharp 05 Sep 2015
In reply to all:

Many thanks fellow ranters
 RockAngel 05 Sep 2015
In reply to Father Noel Furlong:

The person(s) reading the job applications probably didn't understand the word 'commensurate'
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