UKC

I've had a pair of Aescents for about a year and liked them so much I thought I'd buy another pair.

Went into the shop, asked for a pair in size 47, boom - simple - bought.

Wore them a couple of times then went to clip them to my harness on a route, as you do with approach shoes and no tags at the back! The old ones did!

The 5.10 site gives the U.S. Details who basically said tough, they no longer have tabs on them, great. (Even though their site shows them having tabs)

I'd also contacted the UK 5.10 guys via FB who said there'd been a batch without tabs, people complained, so they now have tabs again. They wouldn't replace them. That sucks.
They offered me a t shirt, bit crape thought but may as well get a t, but now they've blocked me from replying to them

I also emailed 5.10 Europe who also said tough.

Fair enough I should have checked, but who sells approach shoe type things that you can't clip to your harness???

I've used tons of 5.10 shoes for work and play and mostly it's their attitude which has made me grumpy about the situation and for the first time in over 10 years I'm considering other brands for my stickies and work shoes.

Sorry for the boring story!

In reply to jezb1:

I'm not sure what you were expecting 5.10 to do.

You bought the shoes in a shop, you saw what you were buying before you paid.

It's not really a boring story more a pointless story.

Product specs change all the time.

In reply to jezb1:

Just clip them to your harness using the shoe laces, the bottom of the laces, not the top end which you tie.

In reply to jezb1:

Bizarre post! You bought them in the shop so saw what you were buying. I think it's good of 5.10 to even offer you a t-shirt to be honest!!

In reply to jezb1:

Well you could either send them back to the States - they'll happily refund your postage, sew some loops on for you and send them back free of charge - or if you don't think that'd work you could tie a special knot in the laces, put a karabiner through it and clip it to your harness.

In reply to jezb1:
Haha, I was just expecting them to be a little polite and apologetic but hey ho, seemingly too much to ask.

I was grateful for the offer of the T, but like I said, they blocked me on FB soon after, which I thought was a bit crap.

In reply to jezb1:

A company blocked you on Facebook? What was your last post?

In reply to jezb1:


Apologetic for what? Are 5.10 to blame for your eye-sight - did David Graham and Sonnie Trotter tear-gas you as you walked into the shop? Are companies now expected to apologise for every change they made to a product. If that's the case, I want my reparations for emotional damage from Marathon's being renamed Snickers.....

In reply to thebigfriendlymoose:
You don't seem a particularly friendly moose to me.

With the benefit of hindsight I'm sure the OP has since realised it was a mistake not to examine the product for irritating and pointless minor design changes. It was an easier mistake to make than you're making out though, and fwiw I don't think it's *completely* outrageous to have hoped the manufacturer might have been a wee bit more gracious about it.

In reply to deepsoup:

"Politeness" is to be expected (maybe terse acknowledgement on nice letter paper at best). Frankly though, in comparable situations I have been more ashamed / annoyed with myself than expectant of compensation - live and learn. I definitely would not be advertising my own mistakes and expecting people to be outraged on my behalf. Perhaps it is a generational thing - everything must go on a forum or facebook or you cease to exist (my own generation went through the school of "hard-knocks" - Wagon Wheels are smaller, and I will not buy them again!).

In reply to deepsoup:


A bit more gracious? They sent him a free tshirt, over something that was bearly worth a reply.

In reply to jezb1:

Manufacturers are constantly changing the design of their products. Presumably they feel they have to keep offering something new, but I find these changes are seldom for the better. Or they may be done to reduce costs. Whatever the reason, you can never assume the current version of a product will be to the same design or specification as an earlier version. If a particular feature is important to you, it is a simple matter to check it before you buy. Failing that, didn't you notice when you came to wear them? Most retailers will accept returns of shoes provided they haven't been worn outdoors.

If you'd bought it online you might have more of a case, but you had the opportunity to inspect them before purchase and either didn't bother or didn't notice. Either way, how is that 5.10's fault? And why should they replace a perfectly functional product, which you have worn, and which has no manufacturing defect, because of your own mistake?

Tie a knot in the laces. This worked perfectly well before manufacturers started to put tabs on shoes. And take more care over your purchases next time.

In reply to thebigfriendlymoose:

Didn't read that way to me exactly. In the same circumstances (and I am *definitely* capable of the same silly mistake) I probably wouldn't have posted what the OP posted either. I just don't think there's any need to jump all over the OP with your sarky bellend boots on. It's not big and it's not friendly, which is confusing because your username says you're both.


Good work. I love it when people come on here to spout their opinion that people are stupid to come on here and spout their opinion. :O)

In reply to deacondeacon:

No, don't think they did, did they? Bearly worth a reply maybe, but they could weaselly have done a bit better.

In reply to deepsoup:

I agree and think the OP has a point, 5:10 had a repeat customer who thought they were buying like for like, in my experience 5:10 have the best rubber, but are a little lacking in the customer relations department.
On another note the new Camp 4`s look dreadful and I do not know what to by next, I have gone]
Tennies great but slippy on grass
Tennies Ditto
Camp 4 Great
Camp 4 Great
Evolve EL Cap Fell to pieces after 4 months and got a refund
Camp 4 Great
?

In reply to Reggie Perrin:

La Sportiva Gandas. Best approach shoes I've ever used, beating tennies by FAR.

In reply to jezb1:

Spare the fella some sympathy. 5.10 used to be a climbing shoe company so loops are expected. Their response is crap and you can sense the Adidas ownership, they don't care about climbers. That's why Sportiva and Scarpa have obliterate them in the marketplace. Ok you should have checked a the shop, but being a repeat buy, you assume that the shoe would have the same features. Is not that you will check that they still have the same stealth rubber, laces, insoles and so on... I think anyways.

In reply to Ramon Marin:


My point earlier is that manufacturers are continually "improving" their products. This applies pretty much anywhere, not just to climbing gear and not just to shoes. To assume that something you buy now is going to be the same specification as the one you bought before is naive, to say the least. After not bothering to look them over in the shop, or when he got them home, or he went to put them on, and then to wear them, and still expect 5.10 to rectify his mistake doesn't seem reasonable to me.

They offered him a T shirt - maybe not much but they were under no obligation to offer anything, it's a gesture. We haven't seen the exchange of emails or whatever so we can't judge the tone of these, but the OP doesn't appear to be without "attitude" himself so perhaps it's not surprising they broke off communication with him before he could get this.

In reply to jezb1:

5.10 have definitely gone down the pan in my opinion and i'll unlikely be buying any more of their products.
However, you bought these in a shop, surely you noticed the features they had / lacked at that point? If not then it's a lesson learned for next time.

In reply to jezb1:

Five Ten don't give a crap about climbing anymore, Biking and street shoes are their main focus now and have been for awhile.

In reply to Aigen:


Indeed, which is why they came out with some really good shoes this year. Verdon and the Quantums back as well.

In reply to HeMa:


Put either of those shoes next to the latest offerings from Scarpa or La Sportiva and they look like shoes that came out about 15 years ago.

In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
although my last pair of scarpa's are good (techno X) they cost more than £100!! (and that was with a discount!)

In reply to jezb1:

Gear tabs on climbing orientated approach shoes should be a given, not having them on is a bit like buying a car with no steering wheel. The gear loops are critical to the shoes functionality as a climbing item.

I have repeat bough 5:10 shoes blindly also and would have been also pissed if the design was change to the level that their functionality was diminished.

I am surprised the shop wouldn't have taken them back as they are essentially not fit for purpose. But it would be a tough argument.

In reply to cap'nChino:


Is that a troll/sarcasm? I can't tell.

In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:
The UKC world is going slowly mad. People have all the rights but none of the responsibilities for their own stupidity. The real crime of 5.10 is stopping making some of the most comfortable approach shoes in the world. I lived in my guide tennies and only drop a grade on average when leading in them (for instance did my 100 solos on Stanage in a day with my left foot in an approach shoe due to foot problems)

In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

Neither, its a belief I stand firm with. Though the example may be slightly exaggerated I will admit.

In reply to Offwidth:

I've never understood why companies feel the need to tinker with designs which are almost perfect.

In reply to Offwidth:


I'm unsure whether to be impressed by your ability to climb in tennies, or critical of your ability in 5.10 Pinks or similar!

In reply to cap'nChino:


They could, on the other hand, tinker with them and stop them falling apart.

In reply to Coel Hellier:
My contention is that around VS on grit or granite, shoe issues are much less critical than people make out. I learnt through foot problems (bunion pain which is much worse on my left foot and which sometimes induces cramping in climbing shoes) and I learnt with modifications of technique, like having to step through edge sometimes where a climbing shoe was needed. I tried it after watching and talking to some americans in California (with similar problems). On the steep sports circuit board at my local bouldering wall on my warm-up '6a' (more like F5 really) or on most steep problems below my limit I've found having a climbing shoe is often almost irrelevant yet most have the latest expensive over-tight technical footwear than I would be saving for something with specific delicate pocket work or edging.

My very favorite approach shoes were some Berghuas moccasins: like a softer topped version of the tennie guide but a bit more robust... . they stopped making them after I discovered them or I would have purchased quite a few pairs. I did the Cuillin Ridge in them with no foot issues.

In reply to Offwidth:

They've stopped making the Tennies? That's a shame.
I've been using mine more extensively, this year, than before. Really loving them.

In reply to Offwidth:
This from Banana Fingers:

By popular demand Five Ten have brought back a low top Guide Tennie. This shoe can easily hike 10 miles into a climb, then ascend a 5.13 route. Having studied previous versions of their classic Guide shoes, Five Ten have created a new Guide Tennie that’s better fitting, better performing and better looking than ever. The last has a rocker, which makes walking efficient and comfortable making this a great choice for freerunners who need the added traction only Stealth® C4 rubber can provide.


I notice they claim to have 'improved' them though...

In reply to cap'nChino:

Never ever had to clip approach shoes to my harness in 20yrs of climbing but I climb peak, Northumberland etc so usually very quick descents. It's not a feature I'd even notice if it was there or not...

In reply to Offwidth:

also the new Camp four is a horrible shoe. The previous generation were amazing. I wore mine till the sole went through. Used them for hiking, scrambles and even climbing when I forgot climbing shoes. Insta-ordered a new pair when the old ones wore out but took them straight back! Why oh why .

In reply to Offwidth:

No Guide Tennies??

No way.

In reply to Timmd:
I think the link above in banana fingers is to the new shoe of the same name (apologies if I'm wrong). The new version I saw has a much stiffer sole and rand and more heel padding (like a trainer) all of which destroy its USP as a mixed approach easy climbing shoe (due to flexibility, sensitivity/ minimal excess) and my key requirement that it moulds to my feet and doesn't upset my bunions. It reminds me of when they needlessly change actors for a character in a fave TV show ... with added physical pain.

In reply to Aigen:

I was about to "Like" this comment, but realised that I just agree with it. I dislike that they've given up on climbing. Yes there are a couple of new shoes out, but they don't look like they add anything to what's out there at the moment. Scarpa seem to be the only company really pushing the boundaries. Sportiva have one midsole technology (P3), where Scarpa seem to keep inventing new ones. Sportiva harp on about No-Edge, but their most recently announced models are normal soles. If No-Edge is so much better then why design new top-end shoes without it?

But I'd still rather buy Sportiva than 5.10. Pity as the old Anastazi velcro was my favourite shoe for years.

In reply to Howard J:


Pay attention to the back story. adidas now own FiveTen, Charles Cole has gone, they messed up not putting the heel loops on....now they are back on.

It would have cost the nothing to say - we messed up, here's a pair with loops on and they would have avoided a dissatisfied customer and this thread.

It's bad bad business 101 especially in these social media connected times, especially if it keeps repeating itself.

In reply to Michael Ryan:

It would have cost them the wholesale value of a replacement pair. Whilst it would have been a gesture, why should they? I'm sure we've all bought gear which turned out to be a mistake, but if it's not the manufacturer's fault why should we expect them to replace it with something different

Removing the loops has turned out to be unpopular with customers, so they've rectified that with a later redesign. That doesn't alter the fact that there was nothing wrong with the shoes which the OP bought, they just lacked a particular feature. He simply didn't bother to check that they have the features he wanted. If you care that much about loops, surely you'd make sure?

In reply to Howard J:


Production costs, peanuts, and would generate good will, priceless.

In reply to Michael Ryan:


Perhaps we're overestimating the economic clout of UKC's absent-minded complainer demographic

In reply to nufkin:

Don't ever. I used to work here. You have power.

In reply to dashed:


A walk down Tryfan in your climbing shoes would make you sell your soul for clipping tags on appraoch shoes

In reply to jezb1:

I bought these in a shop having owned a pair of Daesents. Love the shoes, didn't notice or think to check there was no loop. Was disappointed when I realised there wasn't one, but didn't consider complaining. On the other hand, it did make me think about what is happening at 5.10 when they remove such a key, climbing-specific feature. Might reconsider buying 5.10 in future, although have bought their shoes for years. Maybe they'll end up with a range of entirely biking/street shoes named after a climbing grade.

In reply to Kemics:


Totally agree. I bought a new pair too, very disappointed but stuck it out. Feel like the old ones were a versatile comfortable approach shoe, that would allow you to climb the lower grades, or great for scrambles, the new ones feel like some steel toe capped work boot, with a slightly grippier sole. My next pair won't be 5.10.

In reply to Offwidth:


I guess you'll have to try them at some point...

In reply to fibonacci moose:

In their defence there are thread like this one:

Unusual Hazard of Climbing Shoes - http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=623179

which suggest that maybe removing the loops could be a good thing?

In reply to summo:


preach brother. Also ugly! There's literally nothing going for them