UKC

I had to drop someone off at Leeds/Bradford airport today so went for a walk in the sunshine round my old stomping ground at Caley. I was stunned to find that much of the crag was overgrown and particularly that the Sugarloaf, home to so many good boulder probs and solos, has been almost totally reclaimed by lichen and seems to be disappearing under Himalayan balsam. Very sorry sight.

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

It's been a wet summer. I've been there a lot and always seen other climbers.

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

No way, Angel's Wall is/was an all time classic!

Roof Of The World and Rabbit Paw Wall are two more I seem to remember having fun and games on.

And the home of the original bouldering grades:
B - Benign Bumbles
M - Masterful Manoeuvres
C - Critical Concoctions
That's right, there were only the grades back in the day.

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

This happens every year. When the bracken dies back the crowds return.

In reply to Tony the Blade:


There was still a bit of chalk on Angel's Wall. Luckily I was wearing trainers otherwise I might have been tempted. It was always one of my party piece solos, Didn't go up to Roof of the World/Bull's Horns area.

Weirdly the balsam seemed to be concentrated all round the Sugarloaf. But the slabby side, facing across the valley was just covered in green lichen and slime. I suspect Plantation Rib and CEntral Route would need nailed boots.

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

Caley's just dreadful in summer. Fantastic in spring, and surprisingly good in winter, considering the general colour of the place.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

It never used to be like that. Thro the 80s and 90s I probably had at least one summer evening bouldering/soloing session a week there with the lads (sorry about all the polish, guys) and it was beautiful clean rock. It's a while since I've been and I could not believe the derioration. I guess the trees have crowded in a bit but the balsam suggests that some of the old popular bits don't see much traffic at all these days

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

The trees don't help. The popular routes still stay clean, but some problems have become unclimbable. And that's despite the efforts of some locals pruning trees and clearing the top of routes.

In reply to Wiley Coyote: I visited Brimham a few weeks ago and was amazed at the condition of the Rough Wall face of the Cubic Block. Grass growing out of cracks and the breaks, lichen etc. Certainly weren't as many climbers as there would have been 20 years previously - but a lot more tourists. The two observations may be connected.

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

I think there are a couple of things to consider here:

1) You may be remembering things not quite as they are. I'm consistently amazed when returning to crags that the way I remember things is just not quite how they are/ever were. It's easy to remember a route as being pristine and pure rock, but quite often we've mentally erased the bits and bobs of green that were there.

2) These days we live in a far less toxic world. It's really noticeable looking at pictures of the NY Moors from only a few decades ago that there seems to be far less greenery in the photos. This could just be because the photo was taken in a dry summer, or the camera was a bit naff, but I genuinely think things are growing better these days. This is particularly noticeable with the rocks near industrial areas, where old photos clearly show no lichen growth and now the routes are totally covered in fat lichen. I would be interested if any one who has been climbing for a while could expand on this?

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

i wasn't there 'back in the day', but i was quite surprised by how few climbers there were round Yorkshire compared to the peak. When i lived in saltaire and climbed at the glen all the time i seemed to be the only 'local' (but I couldn't do any of the hard problems).

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I cleaned 2 of those lines left of rough wall in April, both starred routes 3 mins from the car and they were filthy, looks like no ones done them since..... Was also surprised by the condition of such a classic face near the car.

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

Loads of people at Brimham last time I went (trouble getting on the routes I wanted). Same at Almscliffe. I didn't survey other crags at the time.

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

Its undeniable that Caley is being lost to the jungle. Ron Fawcett mentions in his book that it was very different 20 years ago when there wasn't the bracken. Maybe it was grazed by sheep in the past and they have stopped doing that now. Left in the un-managed state it is in now the whole lot will be lost to birch forest in another 10-20 years.

It really needs strimming to encourage grass cover round the boulders and some serious tree cutting back work. As far as I know the council are OK with that.

Franco - I think you are right, lichen levels have increased a lot since they took the lead our of petrol and moved to ultra low sulphur diesel.

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

>Does anyone climb on Yorkshire grit anymore?

Sure, just look at Millstone and Burbage any weekend.

In reply to Wiley Coyote:
I see it as a slow decline in my near 30 year experience of the place, like a transistion through middle age. It's based mainly on increased tree cover and cleaner air but also on lack of extreme trad traffic. Any lichen problem is easily reversed by those with the interest on a particular line and experienced climbers know green rock doesn't mean a route hasnt been cleaned or that friction is bad (you need to look close up).

It's always been an under-rated crag with the masses that is good year round with the right weather but trad climbers are lemming like with their habits. The bouldering is amazing and less seasonal than the changes in traffic would indicate.

When helping with the latest YMC guides it was noticable traffic even on the busiest crags is patchy and lower compared to the Peak: sometimes on good days a crag was deserted and quite busy other times. It was nice reclimbing stuff I was fond of (with less rock damage than is visible in the peak... especially popular bouldering) and visiting some of the many hidden gems for the first time. The other difference I noticed was some group use in Yorkshire (ie a lot that I saw mid-week at Ilkley and Almscliffe Low Man) was pretty horrific compared to the usual good pracice on view in the peak: out of control kids, some dangerous practice, rock damaging habits (flailing dirty trainers on classic routes, like Fluted Columns, with kids not good enough being pulled up by a line of kids on the belay), rude and sometime aggressive instructors.

In reply to Fredt:

Nooooooooo, he meant proper Yorkshire. ;p

In reply to peppermill:


On Look North (Yorkshire Edition) (or 'Look Leeds' as they call it here in Sheffield) last night, Harry Gratian was on about the Tour of Britain 'coming over Millstone Edge'. He couldn't bring himself to mention any Staffordshire/Derbyshire places, and that's the closest they got to Yorkshire today!

In reply to Fredt:
Err, burbage and millstone aren't in Yorkshire

In reply to deacondeacon:


Shall I bite........?

In reply to Fredt: They're in Derbyshire..... you should have gone for Rivellin.

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

Too many people just going to Almscliff all the time!!! But go to Caley regularly

In reply to Mike Stretford:

Millstone is in South Yorkshire isn't it? UKC seems to think so and bing maps agrees as far as I can tell.

In reply to Fredt:


Are you hungry?

In reply to Offwidth:



You are part of that mass.

For the minority it has always been slightly over-rated especially Rabbit's Paw Wall which is no way HVS.

In reply to Mike Stretford:

Sorry, but they are in Yorkshire.

In reply to Graham Booth:

I think Almscliffe has been very heavily polished, especially the low man where you can see your reflection in the holds. Maybe its been like that for ages but it isnt fun to climb when its like that. I'd much rather have green and vegetated at least that feels like an adventure.

In reply to Offwidth:


Bloody hell, I loved Fluted Columns, that's a sad state of affairs.

Mick

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

Last three times I've driven past Eastby of a weekend there have been teams on Pillar Front. There is hope.

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

So do you think a 'crag clean up' is a good idea at Caley; in conjunction with the local countryside rangers of course?

And if the two new Grit guides don't inspire folks to get out there on old favourites and newly revealed spots then I think we are all doomed. 'Doomed I tell thee'.

In reply to Offwidth:


Name and shame. Such bad practice should be addressed.

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

Caley is pretty minging in the summer. it overgrows and catches little breeze so generally sweaty and midgy. But there is an element of vicious cycle in the vegetation growth.

What is the general consensus for cleaning? I'd be happy to more aggressive gardening while I'm there but not sure how acceptable that would be. Maybe we need a communal strimmer?

In reply to Andy Say:
They wouldn't tell me. Mini bus had no markings. They were a local school group and the very young looking instructors clearly used the crag regularly. A guy leading an Ilkley group threatened to punch me for asking to talk about what his group were doing... again no obvious markings on the minibus. I've watched climbers grumble about perfectly good practice in the Peak where its rare in my experience for instructed groups to do daft stuff (occasionally student groups are an problem but its very much a minority and they have got much better over the years). A notable Peak exception (about 10 years back now) was a group of assessing proto instructors with a simulated rescue on The Scoop, at Castle Naze...dangerous and stupid and the impressively fat guy in charge was a real prat when I challenged him ("they have to be free to make mistakes".... yeah right). To be fair I've also met well behaved groups at several Yorks venues so its not all bad in my experience.

In reply to Michael Ryan:

The time I looked at RPW I was on my own and didn't fancy it so only did the start. I have a feeling I bottled it in the early 90s as well. As for the grade it looks like the sort of thing I'd grade E1 on our Offwidth site as an onsight matless ascent but the logbooks disagree:

Rabbit's Paw Wall (HVS 5b)

To me the masses are the average grade climbing visitors making choices about where to go. My average grade matches the masses but all my recent visits were as a volunteer sense checking scripts and climbing as much as I could in the process so I dont count myself or those helping me.

In reply to Offwidth:

If you'd got off the ground on RPW you'd done it. But if you didn't like that one just be grateful you never strayed onto Hanging Groove at (I think) HVS. I was rather disappointed when I bottled soloing that one since I knew I could cruise HVS. Today it gets E3 5c. I did it once on a top rope and I've never been tempted in the slightest to go back. I thought it much trickier than either Wall of Horrors or Western Front, which both get the same grade.

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

You've made my day. When I did it I didn't think it was too bad technically, maybe 5b, but plenty scary. I think it was third of fourth time I'd looked at it that I took the deep breath. If you mess up you are going a looooong way. Not sure a mat would come into the equation.

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

I don't buy that its done after the start: routes get adjectival grades for a reason and its not the first couple of metres. Being easier than a sandbag is hardly relevant. Its a top-down view of punter grades that led to lots of dangerous grading decisions in the past.

In reply to Offwidth:

Too late Steve, you've already been officially labelled as just another one of the masses.

Be proud.

The grade thing was a joke.

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

Yorkshire grit grades don't flatter the climber.

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

Rabbits Paw Wall isn't HVS, its VS, just a bit of a difficult one.

In reply to Phil Ev:


I disagree (as does the guide book) I'd give it HVS for the start though I'd agree it's all in the first couple of moves. However, the route I said I failed on at HVS is Hanging Grooves, a right little horror show which now gets E3.

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

In specific reply to your question I grew up on a diet of Peak grit almost oblivious to Yorkshire grit in the days when info. was scarce so maybe it was all just hidden away.

The two new Yorkshire Grit guides are some of the best I have ever seen and really inspiring - given I live up that way but don't get out too much these days I have made it an objective to get to some of these places I obviously missed out on.

I have been to Brimham, Rylestone, Crookrise, Eastby (lucky enough to do Pillar Front as well) Sharphaw, Earl, Bridestones and Widdop and they were all excellent - can't say any were crowded but that was fine and the rock was great - end of summer on a still warm day with the bracken high can be the worst - pick your day and there is nothing better though.

In reply to Fredt:


I stand corrected! Are they in Sheffield too? I'm sure I read somewhere Rivelin was the only proper crag (hence my comment) within Sheffield City boundaries.

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

I thought every route in Yorkshire was VS as standard, regardless of actual difficulty or seriousness. There is no such grade as HVS its just that some VS's are quite hard.

In reply to Phil Ev:

You know the Allen Austin rule? If you can fall off and walk away it's only VS.

In reply to Andy Say:


That confused an Old School climbing friend of mine who said the rule was if you'd survive it's only HVS, if you'd die it's Extreme. But he could never work out how you ended up twice as dead on an E2

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

Should try Permutation Rib, that's even better then RPW

In reply to Fredt:


Sorry Fred, you're right and I stand corrected. Really surprised the border kicks back there. Stanage edge is the border, and even The Millstone Inn is in Derbyshire.

In reply to Graham Booth:


Brilliant. But that *did* deserve the upgrade to E1, RPW is absolutely fine at HVS, albeit one for those happy without a rope on.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Yup totally agree. PR far more technical

AW has a shocking landing though for HVS

In reply to Graham Booth:


True. I declined on my first visit, but when I did it, I thought it's probably HVS to lead, and if you solo it, that's your choice (it was mine).

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Yeh but a very easy and reversible solo!!

In reply to Graham Booth:

True. One problem at Caley I did on my first visit was Ripper Traverse, but even on becoming a regular I never managed to repeat it - too green and scary! Maybe my excuse is this progressive greening over recent years - first time was a good 10 years ago now...

In reply to Mike Stretford:

That they are.

As is Wharncliffe (just), and Agden Rocher. (Both mildly esoteric, maybe, but well worth a visit if you've always written them off as not 'proper' crags.)

And then of course, there's the Ruffs. (Yik!)

Edit to add:
I have been told (though I can find nothing online to support this), that the Burbage valley was originally acquired by the Sheffield Corporation with a view to damming it and making it into a reservoir. So who knows, maybe if a few meetings had gone differently Parthian Shot would have been a deep water solo. Then again, maybe the Dale Dike disaster of 1864 would have happened elsewhere and the great Sheffield flood might have wiped out Grindleford and Calver instead.

In reply to Michael Ryan:

Ffs thats the whole point... I'm clearly of the masses but doing a job when grade checking on their behalf. The point about the masses was around them not often favouring yorkshire grit crags like Caley. I was going to all these venues to check stuff (most importantly sense checking the script as someone not intimately familiar with the place... climbing stuff was a bonus). Old school yorkshire VS grading of poorly protected routes with high technical difficulty normally found on a crack climb is black humour we could do without, the correctly graded routes can be hard enough. The UK adjectival system is a womderful thing but too many of those old dangerous sandbags (like Old Lace at Crookrise) f*ck things up for everyone trying to sell that to the next generation of the masses.

In reply to Offwidth:

Part of the problem with the popularity of trad at Yorkshire crags like Caley is that the routes are crap. Well, High Noon looks good, but I'd fall off it and end up in hospital (well, actually, I'd just back off).

In reply to Offwidth:

I led Old Lace on Friday. It's a bloody good thing I wimped and put in the side runner because I fell off on first attempt. I wouldn't have wanted to hit that "landing".

In reply to Wiley Coyote:
Caley only has one page in my guide book. "Caley Crags are no more than a convenient practice ground for climbers of the Leeds District."

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I don't think I've ever been to Cubic Block and not found several climbers there. The Rough Wall face is always green, even when dry. This year it's rarely been dry, which may account for the apparent neglect. But it doesn't help that the National Trust are doing their best to put people off - loads of new signs threatening anyone parking outside their pay-and-display, parking fees £5 even for an evening visit, and the gates locked "at dusk" - which on at least one occasion this year meant just before sunset.

Caley in the summer tends to be a bit of a midgy hell hole, and in the winter, the routes tend to be a bit green. But the thing that tends to put me off visiting more is that it tends to be used by local youths for getting pissed, and there are usually loads of discarded cans, barbecues, etc.

Try Almscliff, Ilkley Quarry, or Heptonstall, and you'll see where all the climbers are.

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

I went to Rylstone on a Sunday a couple of weeks ago, bouldering on the far end, there was no one else there at all which surprised me. The boulder problems were very good but looked like they hadn't been done recently as some were a bit "scrittly". I also only saw a couple of teams on the main edge.

In reply to Christheclimber:

Rylstone's never been that busy in my experience - I guess the extra walk puts people off. A bit like the northern end of Stanage. We were at Eastby yesterday though, and there was only one other team there (and a boulderer just leaving when we arrived). No idea why, given that it's a quick drying sun trap only 5 minute from the road.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:
It's a real shame that Rylstone doesn't get more traffic, especially when you consider how the honey pots of Peak grit are getting trashed.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:


Because there's only a couple of routes? They are great routes though!

In reply to Christheclimber:


You could say the same about Kinder North, but then that's miles from the car up a steep hill and luminous green with birds nesting in most of the holds...oh, wait a minute

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Might have seen you (about about 1.30ish? Standing on top of Pillar Front?) And I could have sworn I saw Big John Dunne driving down from there on Saturday evening!

In reply to Christheclimber:


My favourite Yorks grit crag. Not pretending it's the best but I love the slabs and that fabulous position looking over mile upon mile of open country and catchng the evening sun. Just a perfect position

In reply to Jon Stewart:

More than a couple - there are 18 starred routes at HVS and below, a few more once you get to the E grades

In reply to Andy Say:

Probably us, we got there about 1.00 and started with Eastby Buttress. The others didn't arrive until about 2.

In reply to Christheclimber:

I've had 3 superb visits to Rylstone in the last week or so and, with several friends have documented almost 100 previously unrecorded boulder problems on the blocks around the Cracoe memorial. I'm sure most, though not all, will have been done before - (only 13 recorded in the latest YG guide). Most are on superb quick drying rock and have good flat landings. We walked up direct from Cracoe (a bit steep but only 50 minutes) and going that way is more direct than the old route and removes the temptation of getting distracted on the older sectors that I've been climbing on for years. New free download in preparation and should be up on the Leeds Wall website and Unknown Stones.com in the near future.

In reply to Jon Stewart:


It's only 30 minutes to the main crag...............I think Kinder North is a bit further......

In reply to Simon Caldwell:
I really like Eastby too, some brilliant routes if a little bold. Haven't been since last summer when we had the crag to ourselves on a perfect summers day.

In reply to Dave Musgrove:

Hi Dave,
Good work, look forward to the new free download.
Cheers
Chris

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

I've just been up there this morning. I see what you mean. I've not seen that much balsam before. Even the popular problems were pretty green. Needs a good garden.

In reply to WB:

Does need napalming

The Rock is in good condition though!

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

Johnny dawes comments on how overgrown it is in his new 'no hand's video

In reply to Phil Ev:

Well it was a VS in 1971, usually soloed.

In reply to John Stainforth:

Still soloed but isn't VS

In reply to John Stainforth:

Gear has improved a lot since then but doesnt help this route as much as it does other Yorkshire VS standards (which in 2015 remain as tough as anywhere)

In reply to Wiley Coyote:

Bump for the juxto