UKC

I currently have an ATC Guide, but may very well get a Pivot. My question is this - doesn't the orientation of the anchor clip-in point massively affect useability?

When you clip a locker to a rap-ring or maillon (at the chains) the biner sits at a right angle to the rock, which is ideal for my ATC because the attachment hole means the device sits sideways against the rock and can function safely. If it was clipped to a Petzl style hanger, the biner is flat against the rock and so the device is pushing against the rock from the front or even worse the back and so I usually have to just belay off my harness.

A lot of where I sport climb is rings/maillons. Would this make the Pivot, which has a different angle of attachment, not suitable for my needs or am I being stupid?

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

If I'm understanding correctly are you trying to belay directly from the lower of rings/maillions on a sport climb? I d definitely stop that, and start extending your belay plate away from the rock. You really need to be using the belay plate with nothing else around it to rub up against or jam.
Also on single pitch sport which doesn't top out you should never need to belay from the top of the route, unless something has gone very wrong.
Sorry if I've misunderstood (I quite often do).

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

It's an academic issue.
Reverso has the same orientation as the pivot.
It's easy enough to change

In reply to deacondeacon:

Extending a belay plate away from the rock on a vertical or below rock wouldn't make any difference surely, just make the device lower? Of course it goes without saying the belay is always assessed for suitability and if in doubt modified, but I'm talking about quick multipitch sport where you're trying to be as efficient as possible. Using methods to reverse the orientation is just adding more links to the system and unneccesary if I can get a different device. I would like a Pivot though?

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

I did lots of bolted multi pitch this summer and didn't have any issues with a guide plate clipped straight into many different types of anchor station.

I understand where you are coming from however, and I'm sure it could be solved by extending the plate with short sling away from the anchor. These are easy enough manipulate as you belay to keep the plate in the orientation you want.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:


If its a standing belay then extend it, if its a hanging belay then belay off your harness.

You say this is for efficiency. I use an edelrid mega jul in guide mode on trad but it is no faster to set up or use than normal belaying. I only use it for comfort or for more freedom to move

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:


Adding one extra karabiner will change the orientation by 90°.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

I've never thought about a guide plate on multi pitch sport before. I usually either put a QuickDraw on one of the belay bolts and belay through it from my harness, or if there's enough rope left and a handy 1st bolt on the next pitch, climb up, back clip a QuickDraw, and back down to the belay. Allows the second to just come up and lead straight through.

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:


Really? That's where they're at their best and what they were designed for. Sure, redirect works too, and can be a good idea if the first bolt of the next pitch is high but for comfort and to have the ability to belay safely hands-off so you can do other things at the same time or effortlessly hold an airborne second, you can't beat a guide plate in direct belay mode.

In reply to radddogg:

Except that you can have a drink, take your shoes/rucksack off, sort the rack out and take a picture without the need to keep the hand on the rope. Of course, if it's really easy ground, you just have to keep pulling the rope, but if your second is slower than that, you can definitely enjoy using guide mode.

After couple of pitches (the longest I have done this year was 16 pitch route, but we pitched it in 18 due to wandering off the route a little bit) you really want to relax a little bit.

I use guide mode whenever it is sensible (i.e. if belay is not complicated and marginal). I like Pivot so much that when I dropped it in Dolomites, I replaced it by ATC Guide in couple of days time, but ended up buying Pivot when I got back home. It's so much sexier!

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

I think you're trying to solve something which isn't really a problem.

I've never had any issues with my Pivot being orientated 90 degrees different to an ATC, it still works exactly the same. Adding a short sling or extra krab is unnecessary and will only add an extra link to the safety chain.

In reply to Mike Nolan:

An extra 25kn link but needless all the same

In reply to zimpara:

A link is a link though, isn't it? One more useless screwgate to carry, one more thing to screw up. But thanks, I wasn't aware screwgates were that strong...