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Big match this one.
England surely favourites with home advantage and Welsh injuries.
The Celtic fringe though do love to be the underdog.
Both have to play Australia though.
Great night for the neutral.
Me? I think England by one score but looking forward to a brilliant Rugby night!
England surely favourites with home advantage and Welsh injuries.
The Celtic fringe though do love to be the underdog.
Both have to play Australia though.
Great night for the neutral.
Me? I think England by one score but looking forward to a brilliant Rugby night!
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In reply to coinneach:
Think it'll be England by a small margin too, and fiercely fought. Lancaster obviously thinks it's going to be a bit of a cruncher and is keeping Ford wrapped up in cotton wool for the Aus match where we'll need a kicker as we'll have a hard time getting past the Ausy defence to score tries.
My other half is a Wales fan so whichever way it goes tomorrow I'm making my own breakfast on Sunday. :-D
Think it'll be England by a small margin too, and fiercely fought. Lancaster obviously thinks it's going to be a bit of a cruncher and is keeping Ford wrapped up in cotton wool for the Aus match where we'll need a kicker as we'll have a hard time getting past the Ausy defence to score tries.
My other half is a Wales fan so whichever way it goes tomorrow I'm making my own breakfast on Sunday. :-D
In reply to coinneach:
Think it'll be a cracker. England should win but Wales always seem to up their game against England.
They will miss some of the injuries I fear
Think it'll be a cracker. England should win but Wales always seem to up their game against England.
They will miss some of the injuries I fear
In reply to coinneach:
England by miles. No Halfpenny to keep the scoreboard ticking over (and paper over the cracks of Warrenball). Burgess and Barritt to punch BIG holes through the middle. Done deal.
I heard a story that George North's dad asked the young George "What do you want for Xmas?".
"A dragon" replied George.
"Don't be silly" says North senior, "Dragons are fantasy creatures. Choose something that's realistic."
Young George thinks for a minute and said "I'd like Wales to beat England in the 2015 RWC!"
"What colour dragon?" replies his dad.
England by miles. No Halfpenny to keep the scoreboard ticking over (and paper over the cracks of Warrenball). Burgess and Barritt to punch BIG holes through the middle. Done deal.
I heard a story that George North's dad asked the young George "What do you want for Xmas?".
"A dragon" replied George.
"Don't be silly" says North senior, "Dragons are fantasy creatures. Choose something that's realistic."
Young George thinks for a minute and said "I'd like Wales to beat England in the 2015 RWC!"
"What colour dragon?" replies his dad.
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In reply to Shani:
Nice gag but I can't agree with your assessment. The combination of Burgess and Barritt is there not to punch holes but to stop Roberts and Williams. England will try to progress through their kicking game, rolling maul and forays from the back three. I'm not feeling nearly so confident. I think we need Slade to give some craft and guile and if Lancaster is hell bent on playing Burgess, then drop Barritt. I think the selection smacks of fear. Hope I'm wrong
> England by miles. No Halfpenny to keep the scoreboard ticking over (and paper over the cracks of Warrenball). Burgess and Barritt to punch BIG holes through the middle. Done deal.
> I heard a story that George North's dad asked the young George "What do you want for Xmas?".
> "A dragon" replied George.
> "Don't be silly" says North senior, "Dragons are fantasy creatures. Choose something that's realistic."
> Young George thinks for a minute and said "I'd like Wales to beat England in the 2015 RWC!"
> "What colour dragon?" replies his dad.
Nice gag but I can't agree with your assessment. The combination of Burgess and Barritt is there not to punch holes but to stop Roberts and Williams. England will try to progress through their kicking game, rolling maul and forays from the back three. I'm not feeling nearly so confident. I think we need Slade to give some craft and guile and if Lancaster is hell bent on playing Burgess, then drop Barritt. I think the selection smacks of fear. Hope I'm wrong
In reply to coinneach:
It is unlikely to be pretty. Eng to shade it thanks to the subs bench. Having said that I'm mighty suspiscous of the Cuboid & Mercenary, they have been far to quiet this week.
My suspicion is that Rimmer always had this mid field in mind for this game. Certainly don't think Ford is being saved for kicking duties in later games, Farrell is the better kicker.
It is unlikely to be pretty. Eng to shade it thanks to the subs bench. Having said that I'm mighty suspiscous of the Cuboid & Mercenary, they have been far to quiet this week.
My suspicion is that Rimmer always had this mid field in mind for this game. Certainly don't think Ford is being saved for kicking duties in later games, Farrell is the better kicker.
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In reply to coinneach:
Think injuries and replacements will be the deciding factor.
If Wales pick up any more injuries, then they're pretty much scuppered and even if they don't, their bench is weak compared to England's.
Not sure about Burgess. He's hardly played any international standard rugby union and he's been paired up in yet another centre combination. In the games he's played in, he's been sin binned and out of position at crucial times. He could quite easily win or lose the game for England in equal measure.
As for Farrell/Ford at 10, I'm assuming that England expect a lot of heavy traffic down that channel and Farrell has been chosen for his better defensive abilities. Ford will come on once the weaker Welsh bench has been used.
There's obviously a danger that Roberts will be used as a decoy runner and take Burgess and/or Farrell out of the defensive line, which Wales will exploit by bringing the likes of North into the game.
If that happens (fingers crossed it does ), it's then that Lancaster might start panicking...
Think injuries and replacements will be the deciding factor.
If Wales pick up any more injuries, then they're pretty much scuppered and even if they don't, their bench is weak compared to England's.
Not sure about Burgess. He's hardly played any international standard rugby union and he's been paired up in yet another centre combination. In the games he's played in, he's been sin binned and out of position at crucial times. He could quite easily win or lose the game for England in equal measure.
As for Farrell/Ford at 10, I'm assuming that England expect a lot of heavy traffic down that channel and Farrell has been chosen for his better defensive abilities. Ford will come on once the weaker Welsh bench has been used.
There's obviously a danger that Roberts will be used as a decoy runner and take Burgess and/or Farrell out of the defensive line, which Wales will exploit by bringing the likes of North into the game.
If that happens (fingers crossed it does ), it's then that Lancaster might start panicking...
In reply to teflonpete:
Looks like Biggar is going to be in at 10 for Wales. B0llocks!
Don't worry, Priestland will come on with 10 minutes to go and save the day for England!
Joking aside, if Priestland is on form, then it shouldn't be a problem for Wales to bring him on. However, he does have off-days...
Looks like Biggar is going to be in at 10 for Wales. B0llocks!
Don't worry, Priestland will come on with 10 minutes to go and save the day for England!
Joking aside, if Priestland is on form, then it shouldn't be a problem for Wales to bring him on. However, he does have off-days...
Post edited at 12:19
In reply to teflonpete:
They don't pick Ford because he's a better kicker.....
> Think it'll be England by a small margin too, and fiercely fought. Lancaster obviously thinks it's going to be a bit of a cruncher and is keeping Ford wrapped up in cotton wool for the Aus match where we'll need a kicker as we'll have a hard time getting past the Ausy defence to score tries.
> My other half is a Wales fan so whichever way it goes tomorrow I'm making my own breakfast on Sunday. :-D
They don't pick Ford because he's a better kicker.....
In reply to Shani:
Haha! Funny cos it's not true.
The game's won at the break down these days and Wales have the back row. Particularly open side - the English seven is pish
Haha! Funny cos it's not true.
The game's won at the break down these days and Wales have the back row. Particularly open side - the English seven is pish
In reply to all:
You're all over-thinking it: it's going to be a free-for-all.
Although Wales will definitely shade it, largely through England shipping penalties through their hapless half- and three-quarter backs.
(Provided the destruction of the Welsh pack doesn't happen too often in front of the posts)
I'm off to the pub.
You're all over-thinking it: it's going to be a free-for-all.
Although Wales will definitely shade it, largely through England shipping penalties through their hapless half- and three-quarter backs.
(Provided the destruction of the Welsh pack doesn't happen too often in front of the posts)
I'm off to the pub.
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In reply to Martin not maisie:
I reckon I'm 2 out of 3 at the moment - all a bit free-for-all and England making money out of the scrums; but it was the English forwards getting penalised at the breakdowns rather than the backs. I had it that these scores were going to come later, as the English forwards started puffing and arriving at the rucks later, leaving the backs unsupported and panicking. The way Wales hit the breakdowns at the start was very much part of the game plan.
As it is, provided Wales have managed to put the wheels back on, I'd still back them.
Was it just me, or did a little bit of poo fall out of Mike Brown when Warburton called his bluff?
I reckon I'm 2 out of 3 at the moment - all a bit free-for-all and England making money out of the scrums; but it was the English forwards getting penalised at the breakdowns rather than the backs. I had it that these scores were going to come later, as the English forwards started puffing and arriving at the rucks later, leaving the backs unsupported and panicking. The way Wales hit the breakdowns at the start was very much part of the game plan.
As it is, provided Wales have managed to put the wheels back on, I'd still back them.
Was it just me, or did a little bit of poo fall out of Mike Brown when Warburton called his bluff?
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In reply to Denni:
Fair play to them, written off before the match and then subs needing to be made due to more injuries. England subs mainly tactical.
Hats off to the Taffs !
Fair play to them, written off before the match and then subs needing to be made due to more injuries. England subs mainly tactical.
Hats off to the Taffs !
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In reply to FactorXXX: Bloody heck. Well done Wales - hanging on in there and the better team at the end.
It'll be interesting to see how Stuart Barnes makes that Sam Burgess' fault...
It'll be interesting to see how Stuart Barnes makes that Sam Burgess' fault...
In reply to FactorXXX:
Wow, not a classic in terms of style, but what suspense! Too hoarse to talk now though.
Not sure we'll be able to field a team against Fiji though!
Wow, not a classic in terms of style, but what suspense! Too hoarse to talk now though.
Not sure we'll be able to field a team against Fiji though!
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In reply to Welsh Kate:
Ha!
Not sure how that just happened, but what a turnaround. Never mind the next game, that was a legend in its own right: everything but actual good, open play.
Fortunately, Wales can hang out a bit and see how England get on. If Aus beat them, the way's clear; if not, maybe some of the injuries won't be too bad....
Ha!
Not sure how that just happened, but what a turnaround. Never mind the next game, that was a legend in its own right: everything but actual good, open play.
Fortunately, Wales can hang out a bit and see how England get on. If Aus beat them, the way's clear; if not, maybe some of the injuries won't be too bad....
In reply to Gills:
> Well done wales!!
Thankfully they didn't have it all their own way. England played well and deserved to win.
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In reply to Welsh Kate:
Not sure we'll be able to field a team against Fiji though!
Shane Williams and Gareth Thomas on stand by!
If it gets any worse, Gatland might even give Hook a call up...
Not sure we'll be able to field a team against Fiji though!
Shane Williams and Gareth Thomas on stand by!
If it gets any worse, Gatland might even give Hook a call up...
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In reply to FactorXXX:
Think injuries and replacements will be the deciding factor.
I was right, but not quite in the way I intended...
Think injuries and replacements will be the deciding factor.
I was right, but not quite in the way I intended...
In reply to FactorXXX:
A great shame that the pundits are now discussing the wisdom of England going for the corner at the end. Brave, in the spirit of the game and entirely right - had it been Wales, and we'd taken the three points, I'd have been gutted.
A great shame that the pundits are now discussing the wisdom of England going for the corner at the end. Brave, in the spirit of the game and entirely right - had it been Wales, and we'd taken the three points, I'd have been gutted.
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In reply to coinneach:
Well, at least the English team put Comrade Corbyn to shame with their rendition of the National Anthem. They gave that, and the game, their all; and they were ALL singing it.
Well, at least the English team put Comrade Corbyn to shame with their rendition of the National Anthem. They gave that, and the game, their all; and they were ALL singing it.
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In reply to mypyrex:
Never said England didn't play well jus well done to Wales, they did win, and against all odds
Would have said well done to England if they had of won too :-P
Never said England didn't play well jus well done to Wales, they did win, and against all odds
Would have said well done to England if they had of won too :-P
Post edited at 22:18
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In reply to mypyrex:
Well, at least the English team put Comrade Corbyn to shame with their rendition of the National Anthem. They gave that, and the game, their all; and they were ALL singing it.
Maybe they could go into the group category on X Factor?
Well, at least the English team put Comrade Corbyn to shame with their rendition of the National Anthem. They gave that, and the game, their all; and they were ALL singing it.
Maybe they could go into the group category on X Factor?
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In reply to Gills:
Fair enough.
> Never said England didn't play well jus well done to Wales, they did win, and against all odds
> Would have said well done to England if they had of won too :-P
Fair enough.
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In reply to mypyrex:
Bet you a fiver they've only started universally singing it since the Corbyn slow-news-day-Tories-in-panic debacle, though.
> Well, at least the English team put Comrade Corbyn to shame with their rendition of the National Anthem. They gave that, and the game, their all; and they were ALL singing it.
Bet you a fiver they've only started universally singing it since the Corbyn slow-news-day-Tories-in-panic debacle, though.
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In reply to coinneach:
Well done the Dragons! Hope they can get enough players back out of hospital for the rest of the tournament.
Well done the Dragons! Hope they can get enough players back out of hospital for the rest of the tournament.
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In reply to mypyrex:
Passion and pride.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter who 'deserved' to win, it's winning that matters - and it's obvious that the most disciplined side that played the best game tactically was the one that prevailed. To come from behind and win, against all expectations, with all the injuries, at Twickenham no less, is simply incredible.
Wales' best ever win over England? Debatable perhaps, but as a match it'll definitely be talked about for years ...... both in Wales and England.
Well done bois bach!
Passion and pride.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter who 'deserved' to win, it's winning that matters - and it's obvious that the most disciplined side that played the best game tactically was the one that prevailed. To come from behind and win, against all expectations, with all the injuries, at Twickenham no less, is simply incredible.
Wales' best ever win over England? Debatable perhaps, but as a match it'll definitely be talked about for years ...... both in Wales and England.
Well done bois bach!
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In reply to Dave Williams:
Which interbred royal barsteward told the welsh team that they couldn't sing?
The welsh are annoying with their love of rugby, but well done for pissing of the royals
Which interbred royal barsteward told the welsh team that they couldn't sing?
The welsh are annoying with their love of rugby, but well done for pissing of the royals
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In reply to mypyrex:
England deserved to win? How did you work that out! They didn't deserve to win at all. It sounds like you're suggesting they were hard done by or had decisions go against them. The sour grapes have started.....
> Thankfully they didn't have it all their own way. England played well and deserved to win.
England deserved to win? How did you work that out! They didn't deserve to win at all. It sounds like you're suggesting they were hard done by or had decisions go against them. The sour grapes have started.....
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Good game and from what I watched a very even game. England 7 points up 10 minutes to go shouldn't be losing a game in that manner or giving a try away in the manner they did.
Other than that good game and very even
Im at the Australia v Uruguay game tomorrow so you can guess who I will be cheering on 😀
Post edited at 22:58
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In reply to Alan M:
Interesting stuff, now.
England could beat Australia and potentially top the group - if Australia then beat Wales. But Wales would still be likely to go through instead of Australia, given their bonus point in hand and a decent points difference. Unless Australia picked up a losing bonus point in a tight game against the English and then destroyed Wales - provided Wales didn't pick up a bonus point in their other game....
Etc
On the other hand, if Australia beat England, then it's a done deal.
Interesting stuff, now.
England could beat Australia and potentially top the group - if Australia then beat Wales. But Wales would still be likely to go through instead of Australia, given their bonus point in hand and a decent points difference. Unless Australia picked up a losing bonus point in a tight game against the English and then destroyed Wales - provided Wales didn't pick up a bonus point in their other game....
Etc
On the other hand, if Australia beat England, then it's a done deal.
In reply to Martin not maisie:
But it's the last 2 minutes of a group game, bigger picture and all that.
Compounded the earlier mistakes, at that point there is no 'spirit of the game' it's points on the board and Wales are just an anonymous team, to be treated as Team X not some local rivals.
Brave just means hot-headed, Lancaster can't support that sort of decision and he didn't.
> in the spirit of the game
But it's the last 2 minutes of a group game, bigger picture and all that.
Compounded the earlier mistakes, at that point there is no 'spirit of the game' it's points on the board and Wales are just an anonymous team, to be treated as Team X not some local rivals.
Brave just means hot-headed, Lancaster can't support that sort of decision and he didn't.
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In reply to Martin not maisie:
"On the other hand, if Australia beat England, then it's a done deal."
Yes, it'll feel deeply unsettling to be supporting Australia next week!
"On the other hand, if Australia beat England, then it's a done deal."
Yes, it'll feel deeply unsettling to be supporting Australia next week!
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In reply to winhill:
The spirit of the game was to win; if you're invoking some mythical sense of fair play, the draw might have been acceptable. But a draw at this stage would have been re-entering the Russian roulette which all the teams were in prior to the match: one of the home teams could beat Australia, but the odds on both doing so are pretty small; taking a draw tonight and then depending on a points difference would have been pretty craven for either team.
Does Lancaster ever look happy?
The spirit of the game was to win; if you're invoking some mythical sense of fair play, the draw might have been acceptable. But a draw at this stage would have been re-entering the Russian roulette which all the teams were in prior to the match: one of the home teams could beat Australia, but the odds on both doing so are pretty small; taking a draw tonight and then depending on a points difference would have been pretty craven for either team.
Does Lancaster ever look happy?
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my preconditions. are shit.
Well done Wales.
Well done Wales.
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In reply to Horse:
Well done Wales, battle won but will it prove a Pyrrhic victory?
It might well do, it obviously depends on how bad the injuries are, but my guess is that Scott Williams, Liam Williams and Hallam Amos are out of the equation for the rest of the tournament.
Not sure what Wales can do now. Maybe put North in at Outside Centre and call up Hook? To cover the other two injuries, who knows! Owen Williams from Leicester is pretty good. Patchell possibly?
Well done Wales, battle won but will it prove a Pyrrhic victory?
It might well do, it obviously depends on how bad the injuries are, but my guess is that Scott Williams, Liam Williams and Hallam Amos are out of the equation for the rest of the tournament.
Not sure what Wales can do now. Maybe put North in at Outside Centre and call up Hook? To cover the other two injuries, who knows! Owen Williams from Leicester is pretty good. Patchell possibly?
In reply to Denni:
Interestingly the very experienced Welsh ref I was chatting to after the match felt that England were the better team, but there is no 'deserved' as far as I'm concerned. Both teams fought hard, Wales came out on top - not dissimilar to the result at Cardiff last time out. Very interesting to see how England respond next week!
> England deserved to win? How did you work that out! They didn't deserve to win at all. It sounds like you're suggesting they were hard done by or had decisions go against them. The sour grapes have started.....
Interestingly the very experienced Welsh ref I was chatting to after the match felt that England were the better team, but there is no 'deserved' as far as I'm concerned. Both teams fought hard, Wales came out on top - not dissimilar to the result at Cardiff last time out. Very interesting to see how England respond next week!
In reply to coinneach:
As nice as it was to see Wales win, it would be a shame if the host nation went out in the group stages. For possibly the first time ever I will be supporting England (against Australia).
As nice as it was to see Wales win, it would be a shame if the host nation went out in the group stages. For possibly the first time ever I will be supporting England (against Australia).
I for one am embarrassed to be English today.
Lancaster should be sacked, and not bother waiting until the end of the WC.
We had a 10 point advantage and blew it, despite them getting all those injuries.
Lancaster should be sacked, and not bother waiting until the end of the WC.
We had a 10 point advantage and blew it, despite them getting all those injuries.
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In reply to Martin not maisie:
It's a WC not a game.
If England beat Oz then the odds on Wales doing the same will shorten, not lengthen.
We could have had equal points but with a weakened Wales, depending on the injuries.
Now we have less points and we've done the other teams a favour by weakening their opponent for them.
> The spirit of the game was to win;
It's a WC not a game.
If England beat Oz then the odds on Wales doing the same will shorten, not lengthen.
We could have had equal points but with a weakened Wales, depending on the injuries.
Now we have less points and we've done the other teams a favour by weakening their opponent for them.
In reply to winhill:
Only if they would have scored the penalty which I doubt they would have.
Wales simply Biggar and better.
> It's a WC not a game.
> If England beat Oz then the odds on Wales doing the same will shorten, not lengthen.
> We could have had equal points but with a weakened Wales, depending on the injuries.
Only if they would have scored the penalty which I doubt they would have.
Wales simply Biggar and better.
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In reply to Princess Bobina:
It's not your doubts that are important though and in any case it only comes back to the 22.
Biggar only just bettered Farrell in the stats and that was because he was gifted the opportunity, everyone is agreed on that, Lancaster, Gatland, the England players, whether it's 'mis-reading the ref' or just slackness, Biggar was given a gift wrapped present with a little tag on saying Take Me.
> Only if they would have scored the penalty which I doubt they would have.
It's not your doubts that are important though and in any case it only comes back to the 22.
> Wales simply Biggar and better.
Biggar only just bettered Farrell in the stats and that was because he was gifted the opportunity, everyone is agreed on that, Lancaster, Gatland, the England players, whether it's 'mis-reading the ref' or just slackness, Biggar was given a gift wrapped present with a little tag on saying Take Me.
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In reply to winhill:
We were gift wrapped a penalty too but were too useless to make use of it.
As above, Lancaster for the sack!
> It's not your doubts that are important though and in any case it only comes back to the 22.
> Biggar only just bettered Farrell in the stats and that was because he was gifted the opportunity, everyone is agreed on that, Lancaster, Gatland, the England players, whether it's 'mis-reading the ref' or just slackness, Biggar was given a gift wrapped present with a little tag on saying Take Me.
We were gift wrapped a penalty too but were too useless to make use of it.
As above, Lancaster for the sack!
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In reply to winhill:
Aren't you the ray of sunshine this morning?
As it is, my team won, the sun's shining, I got a lie-in (with coffee) for the first time in a month and I'm off outside.
Life is good and there's weeks of rugby left.
For the Welsh.
Aren't you the ray of sunshine this morning?
As it is, my team won, the sun's shining, I got a lie-in (with coffee) for the first time in a month and I'm off outside.
Life is good and there's weeks of rugby left.
For the Welsh.
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In reply to Horse:
When Williams and Amos both came off, I'm pretty sure Jenkins and Gatland were thinking about enforced comebacks.
When Williams and Amos both came off, I'm pretty sure Jenkins and Gatland were thinking about enforced comebacks.
In reply to Horse:
He who pays the piper calls the tune.
Everyone knew this was going to be a close match so this scenario could have been half predicted.
(Either that, or the kicker bottled it).
> Did I miss something? Was Lancaster on the pitch playing?
He who pays the piper calls the tune.
Everyone knew this was going to be a close match so this scenario could have been half predicted.
(Either that, or the kicker bottled it).
In reply to Martin not maisie:
Fixed that for you
> For the Welsh to watch as they finish third in the group, left only with the embers of a Pyrrhic victory to warm themselves in the Celtic gloaming.
Fixed that for you
In reply to coinneach:
Well done to Wales, hanging on by their boot laces at the end but they did what good teams do.........They crawled out a win. The Wales-Austraila game will be a cracker now. Winner to move forward, the loser goes home. Hope so anyway.
At the time I thought Robshaws decision to go for the courner was the right one. (A draw or a loss is the same really. England still need to beat the Aussies and hope results go their way in other pool matches) But throw to the back FFS. Get into some space and then see what happens. Front ball at the lineout was the wrong decision, not kicking to the courner. I can't imagine Johnno making the wrong call in that position.
Big Sam. Burgess isn't a union player, he may be one of the worlds best league players but he is out of his depth on a union pitch. I spent a little time watching him last night and he's like a group member on the X factor who doesn't quite know the moves/words of the song their singing, always looking across and slightly behind the rest. I wouldn't ever pick him for England again.
Iv'e said this before, but England just don't have any "World" class players in their squad. Brown may make the bench, but thats it. They are simply not good enough on a world stage. Nothing wrong with that of course, it's just a fact. The Welsh lads are getting on a bit, but all that experience and they have one or two who would grace a "World" fifteen and that showed it self last night.
Also, too many penalties were given away by both sides IMO. Englands first, after less than a minute. Ultimately, that was Englands undoing. You can't defend a penalty. Teams defences are so good nowadays I often wonder why there is a need to give a penalty away. Just let them have the ball and defend that.
It's still all to play for though. Can Wales get fifteen fit players onto the pitch against Fiji and Austraila ?? And a must win game next Saturday for England and then see what happens.
Now, off to sulk in a courner..................................
Well done to Wales, hanging on by their boot laces at the end but they did what good teams do.........They crawled out a win. The Wales-Austraila game will be a cracker now. Winner to move forward, the loser goes home. Hope so anyway.
At the time I thought Robshaws decision to go for the courner was the right one. (A draw or a loss is the same really. England still need to beat the Aussies and hope results go their way in other pool matches) But throw to the back FFS. Get into some space and then see what happens. Front ball at the lineout was the wrong decision, not kicking to the courner. I can't imagine Johnno making the wrong call in that position.
Big Sam. Burgess isn't a union player, he may be one of the worlds best league players but he is out of his depth on a union pitch. I spent a little time watching him last night and he's like a group member on the X factor who doesn't quite know the moves/words of the song their singing, always looking across and slightly behind the rest. I wouldn't ever pick him for England again.
Iv'e said this before, but England just don't have any "World" class players in their squad. Brown may make the bench, but thats it. They are simply not good enough on a world stage. Nothing wrong with that of course, it's just a fact. The Welsh lads are getting on a bit, but all that experience and they have one or two who would grace a "World" fifteen and that showed it self last night.
Also, too many penalties were given away by both sides IMO. Englands first, after less than a minute. Ultimately, that was Englands undoing. You can't defend a penalty. Teams defences are so good nowadays I often wonder why there is a need to give a penalty away. Just let them have the ball and defend that.
It's still all to play for though. Can Wales get fifteen fit players onto the pitch against Fiji and Austraila ?? And a must win game next Saturday for England and then see what happens.
Now, off to sulk in a courner..................................
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In reply to Horse:
No, but he's not a very good coach.
> Did I miss something? Was Lancaster on the pitch playing?
No, but he's not a very good coach.
In reply to arch:
But throw to the back FFS. Get into some space and then see what happens. Front ball at the lineout was the wrong decision, not kicking to the courner. I can't imagine Johnno making the wrong call in that position.
Front ball was definitely the right decision that close to the line. Secure the ball, form a maul and drive over the line. Unfortunately for England, they messed up the maul and Wales drove them into touch.
But throw to the back FFS. Get into some space and then see what happens. Front ball at the lineout was the wrong decision, not kicking to the courner. I can't imagine Johnno making the wrong call in that position.
Front ball was definitely the right decision that close to the line. Secure the ball, form a maul and drive over the line. Unfortunately for England, they messed up the maul and Wales drove them into touch.
1
In reply to FactorXXX:
No, it's the easiest call to defend,just shove them attacking maul sideways into touch.
> But throw to the back FFS. Get into some space and then see what happens. Front ball at the lineout was the wrong decision, not kicking to the courner. I can't imagine Johnno making the wrong call in that position.
> Front ball was definitely the right decision that close to the line. Secure the ball, form a maul and drive over the line. Unfortunately for England, they messed up the maul and Wales drove them into touch.
No, it's the easiest call to defend,just shove them attacking maul sideways into touch.
1
In reply to Postmanpat:
No, it's the easiest call to defend,just shove them attacking maul sideways into touch.
A well formed maul is very difficult to defend legally and very often either results in a try or a scrum for the attacking side. England's problem, was that they didn't get the maul formed properly and were pushed into touch.
No, it's the easiest call to defend,just shove them attacking maul sideways into touch.
A well formed maul is very difficult to defend legally and very often either results in a try or a scrum for the attacking side. England's problem, was that they didn't get the maul formed properly and were pushed into touch.
In reply to FactorXXX:
It's true that we screwed it up but if you start that close to touch it's much easier to be driven out.
Anyway, should never have gone for the line out and never let the Welsh back in anyway.
All credit to the Welsh for hanging in and then exploiting English incompetence.
> No, it's the easiest call to defend,just shove them attacking maul sideways into touch.
> A well formed maul is very difficult to defend legally and very often either results in a try or a scrum for the attacking side. England's problem, was that they didn't get the maul formed properly and were pushed into touch.
It's true that we screwed it up but if you start that close to touch it's much easier to be driven out.
Anyway, should never have gone for the line out and never let the Welsh back in anyway.
All credit to the Welsh for hanging in and then exploiting English incompetence.
In reply to Clauso:
Is it me:
Wales have the WRU
Ireland have the IRU
Scotland have the SRU but..
England have to be The Rugby Union, use the British national anthem & have fans that dress up as crusaders.
Is it me:
Wales have the WRU
Ireland have the IRU
Scotland have the SRU but..
England have to be The Rugby Union, use the British national anthem & have fans that dress up as crusaders.
1
In reply to carlo:
use the British national anthem
All England sport teams do - a mistake I agree
& have fans that dress up as crusaders.
St George's cross. What's your point caller?
> Is it me:
> Wales have the WRU
> Ireland have the IRU
> Scotland have the SRU but..
> England have to be The Rugby Union,
Well, it was invented hereuse the British national anthem
All England sport teams do - a mistake I agree
& have fans that dress up as crusaders.
St George's cross. What's your point caller?
In reply to Postmanpat:
A bit patronising, no? Wales are just abetter team just now. If Wales' scrum hadn't been rubbish - which wasn't expected given England's recent set piece problems - you'd have been on to a hiding. Not to mention your playing at home, their having lots of injuries before and during the match and them gifting you a try.
> It's true that we screwed it up but if you start that close to touch it's much easier to be driven out.
> Anyway, should never have gone for the line out and never let the Welsh back in anyway.
> All credit to the Welsh for hanging in and then exploiting English incompetence.
A bit patronising, no? Wales are just abetter team just now. If Wales' scrum hadn't been rubbish - which wasn't expected given England's recent set piece problems - you'd have been on to a hiding. Not to mention your playing at home, their having lots of injuries before and during the match and them gifting you a try.
4
In reply to Donald82:
That does not seem to match the views expressed by people like BoD " that was daylight robbery".
> A bit patronising, no? Wales are just abetter team just now. If Wales' scrum hadn't been rubbish - which wasn't expected given England's recent set piece problems - you'd have been on to a hiding. Not to mention your playing at home, their having lots of injuries before and during the match and them gifting you a try.
That does not seem to match the views expressed by people like BoD " that was daylight robbery".
In reply to Dr.S at work:
I always think calling it "The Rugby Union" (and other versions) is a bit like an ex public school boy who still likes to wear his old school tie. He thinks it's cool or honouring tradition or something. Everyone else just assumes he's a dick.
I always think calling it "The Rugby Union" (and other versions) is a bit like an ex public school boy who still likes to wear his old school tie. He thinks it's cool or honouring tradition or something. Everyone else just assumes he's a dick.
3
In reply to Dr.S at work:
Daylight robbery given the position they were in with all the injuries, possibly. I think that's a bit strong though.
What I think's patronising is the idea that England are a better team, or should be beating Wales. Or it was just English incompetence - like that kick was easy or they normally would score a catch and drive (Excellent defence and reading the game from Wales there btw.) This is when Wales just beat them, under strength, at Twickenham, and with a terrible scrum on the day. Plus gifting them their lead - watch the try again. None of the commentators mentioned it but the Wales 11 completely sold himself.
Daylight robbery given the position they were in with all the injuries, possibly. I think that's a bit strong though.
What I think's patronising is the idea that England are a better team, or should be beating Wales. Or it was just English incompetence - like that kick was easy or they normally would score a catch and drive (Excellent defence and reading the game from Wales there btw.) This is when Wales just beat them, under strength, at Twickenham, and with a terrible scrum on the day. Plus gifting them their lead - watch the try again. None of the commentators mentioned it but the Wales 11 completely sold himself.
2
In reply to Donald82:
So, apart from England dominating the scrum, winning their line outs, benefiting from Wales missing several key players, benefitting from playing at home, and leading until the 70th minute, Wales dominated the whole game ?
A full strength Wales team on their day may very well be better, but yesterday England were edging it for 75 minutes, the Welsh hung in and exploited their chances in the last ten. Nothing patronising in that. It's what happened and Wales deserved their win.
> A bit patronising, no? Wales are just abetter team just now. If Wales' scrum hadn't been rubbish - which wasn't expected given England's recent set piece problems - you'd have been on to a hiding. Not to mention your playing at home, their having lots of injuries before and during the match and them gifting you a try.
So, apart from England dominating the scrum, winning their line outs, benefiting from Wales missing several key players, benefitting from playing at home, and leading until the 70th minute, Wales dominated the whole game ?
A full strength Wales team on their day may very well be better, but yesterday England were edging it for 75 minutes, the Welsh hung in and exploited their chances in the last ten. Nothing patronising in that. It's what happened and Wales deserved their win.
1
In reply to Postmanpat:
No.
It was pretty even yesterday, if it hadn't been for the scrum Wales would have won fairly easily.
They had to hang in because... their scrum and they gifted you a try.
The arrogance is the idea that you should be beating Wales or ARE a better team. Or you only lost because of your own incompetence. Which I detect on this thread. Maybe not from you - haven't read your posts.
> Wales dominated the whole game ?
No.
> A full strength Wales team on their day may very well be better, but yesterday England were edging it for 75 minutes, the Welsh hung in and exploited their chances in the last ten. Nothing patronising in that. It's what happened and Wales deserved their win.
It was pretty even yesterday, if it hadn't been for the scrum Wales would have won fairly easily.
They had to hang in because... their scrum and they gifted you a try.
The arrogance is the idea that you should be beating Wales or ARE a better team. Or you only lost because of your own incompetence. Which I detect on this thread. Maybe not from you - haven't read your posts.
2
In reply to Donald82:
There was no gifting of a try to England and certainly not by the Welsh 11 who was the covering defender from the opposite wing. The Welsh winger opposite May was 14, go watch what he does in the build up to the try.
But if you want to go down that road the Welsh try was a gift because of poor defensive alignment by Barritt and positioning by Watson.
There was no gifting of a try to England and certainly not by the Welsh 11 who was the covering defender from the opposite wing. The Welsh winger opposite May was 14, go watch what he does in the build up to the try.
But if you want to go down that road the Welsh try was a gift because of poor defensive alignment by Barritt and positioning by Watson.
In reply to Donald82:
"If it hadn't been for the scrum" !!! Er, but it was, and that's one of the key facets of the game.
Personally I think if both teams are full strength it's pretty even so home advantage is important.
For this particular game the bookies and most pundits had England as slight favourites, probably on the basis of home advantage and Welsh injuries so, given the score at 70 minutes, it's hardly "arrogant" to think England "should" have won.
Anyway, of course England should beat Wales. England has nine times as many clubs , six times as many senior players, and far more money in the game. England should consistently be the dominant force in the game. That's why everybody loves beating us so much!
> The arrogance is the idea that you should be beating Wales or ARE a better team. Or you only lost because of your own incompetence. Which I detect on this thread. Maybe not from you - haven't read your posts.
"If it hadn't been for the scrum" !!! Er, but it was, and that's one of the key facets of the game.
Personally I think if both teams are full strength it's pretty even so home advantage is important.
For this particular game the bookies and most pundits had England as slight favourites, probably on the basis of home advantage and Welsh injuries so, given the score at 70 minutes, it's hardly "arrogant" to think England "should" have won.
Anyway, of course England should beat Wales. England has nine times as many clubs , six times as many senior players, and far more money in the game. England should consistently be the dominant force in the game. That's why everybody loves beating us so much!
Post edited at 20:39
In reply to Donald82:
I've just scanned through the thread, and other than the odd bit of banter there is very little that could be interpreted as betraying an inherrent English arrogance. It might be reasonable going into the match to think that England 'should' beat Wales give the injury situation etc, but that 'should' is only a having a higher probability of wining, not certainty of wining.
I reckon given the circumstances England would win that game 7/10 times - I may be wrong, but that does not mean I ( or the English in gerneral) are arrogant.
A large part of the Welsh delight on the streets of Bristol last night was that a lot of the Welsh fans thought England should have won (i.e. had the greatest chance of wining).
> The arrogance is the idea that you should be beating Wales or ARE a better team. Or you only lost because of your own incompetence. Which I detect on this thread. Maybe not from you - haven't read your posts.
I've just scanned through the thread, and other than the odd bit of banter there is very little that could be interpreted as betraying an inherrent English arrogance. It might be reasonable going into the match to think that England 'should' beat Wales give the injury situation etc, but that 'should' is only a having a higher probability of wining, not certainty of wining.
I reckon given the circumstances England would win that game 7/10 times - I may be wrong, but that does not mean I ( or the English in gerneral) are arrogant.
A large part of the Welsh delight on the streets of Bristol last night was that a lot of the Welsh fans thought England should have won (i.e. had the greatest chance of wining).
In reply to Donald82:
Well, forgive me for taking BoD's opinion over yours.
> Daylight robbery given the position they were in with all the injuries, possibly. I think that's a bit strong though.
Well, forgive me for taking BoD's opinion over yours.
In reply to Horse:
Yes, he was covering across and he should have gone for May but he checked back in incase the other guy din't make his tackle. You always have to trust your inside defence.... it was a proper individual shocker
Yeah, but they did that a few times - or at least one, see the Scott Williams break - and it wasn't a gift of try. It was pretty far out and Wales still had a lot to do.
> There was no gifting of a try to England and certainly not by the Welsh 11 who was the covering defender from the opposite wing. The Welsh winger opposite May was 14, go watch what he does in the build up to the try.
Yes, he was covering across and he should have gone for May but he checked back in incase the other guy din't make his tackle. You always have to trust your inside defence.... it was a proper individual shocker
> But if you want to go down that road the Welsh try was a gift because of poor defensive alignment by Barritt and positioning by Watson.
Yeah, but they did that a few times - or at least one, see the Scott Williams break - and it wasn't a gift of try. It was pretty far out and Wales still had a lot to do.
In reply to Dr.S at work:
I detect a lot of should have won because we are a better team than Wales.
I detect a lot of should have won because we are a better team than Wales.
In reply to Postmanpat:
Yes it is. My point is that despite having a much better scrum on the day which wasn't expected and other advantages in terms of playing at home and lots of welsh injuries they still didn't win. So it's arrogant to suggest that they're a considerably better team now and should have won.
England actually played about as well as they can.
Should have won because they are a considerably better team now is the sentiment I detect. Not from you, though.
In that sense they should, of course. But they haven't been as good as they should be for ages. Which is a pretty common theme for England in a few sports. Football and tennis spring to mind. I think it has a lot to do with a historical arrogance of people running sports. We'll do it out way because we invented it. A few examples - the LTA were teaching people to hit their forehands standing sideways for a long time after everyone else had stopped doing it. The ERU have appointed rubbish and inexperienced English coaches (Johnston when Lancaster) when clearly better foreign alternatives exist. The EFA is way behind Germany, France and Spain in terms of coaching and developing young players.
I think it's changing now in football and tennis so we should see results. Rugby's such a small pond and England have far and away the most resources so they'll have success without changing, but they'd have a lot more if they did.
(Being Scottish I'm in no position to gloat - just an observation)
> "If it hadn't been for the scrum" !!! Er, but it was, and that's one of the key facets of the game.
Yes it is. My point is that despite having a much better scrum on the day which wasn't expected and other advantages in terms of playing at home and lots of welsh injuries they still didn't win. So it's arrogant to suggest that they're a considerably better team now and should have won.
England actually played about as well as they can.
> Personally I think if both teams are full strength it's pretty even so home advantage is important.
> For this particular game the bookies and most pundits had England as slight favourites, probably on the basis of home advantage and Welsh injuries so, given the score at 70 minutes, it's hardly "arrogant" to think England "should" have won.
Should have won because they are a considerably better team now is the sentiment I detect. Not from you, though.
> Anyway, of course England should beat Wales. England has nine times as many clubs , six times as many senior players, and far more money in the game. England should consistently be the dominant force in the game. That's why everybody loves beating us so much!
In that sense they should, of course. But they haven't been as good as they should be for ages. Which is a pretty common theme for England in a few sports. Football and tennis spring to mind. I think it has a lot to do with a historical arrogance of people running sports. We'll do it out way because we invented it. A few examples - the LTA were teaching people to hit their forehands standing sideways for a long time after everyone else had stopped doing it. The ERU have appointed rubbish and inexperienced English coaches (Johnston when Lancaster) when clearly better foreign alternatives exist. The EFA is way behind Germany, France and Spain in terms of coaching and developing young players.
I think it's changing now in football and tennis so we should see results. Rugby's such a small pond and England have far and away the most resources so they'll have success without changing, but they'd have a lot more if they did.
(Being Scottish I'm in no position to gloat - just an observation)
In reply to Donald82:
Well we'll have to disagree. 14 stepped in to tackle Watson who had created a potential overlap from a good angled run off the blind wing. The tackle was good and the move very nearly broke down. The 15 moved out to cover the 14 position and 11 drifted across to do the full back job, standard fare really. They (14 and 15) both then tackled Brown and 11 stood behind the ruck as if fullback, 13 was now marking May. It was the resulting quick ruck ball that caused the final problem and Youngs going blindside created a 2 on 1 from which May scored. I rather thought all this was the aim of good back play, draw in the defence, get quick ball, create overlap, score a try or perhaps I have missed something.
Whether 14, or someone else, should have stepped in to take Watson I don't know because I am not privy to how the Welsh back 3 organise themselves but 15 didn't looked fazed and took up a good position (where 14 would have been).
Well we'll have to disagree. 14 stepped in to tackle Watson who had created a potential overlap from a good angled run off the blind wing. The tackle was good and the move very nearly broke down. The 15 moved out to cover the 14 position and 11 drifted across to do the full back job, standard fare really. They (14 and 15) both then tackled Brown and 11 stood behind the ruck as if fullback, 13 was now marking May. It was the resulting quick ruck ball that caused the final problem and Youngs going blindside created a 2 on 1 from which May scored. I rather thought all this was the aim of good back play, draw in the defence, get quick ball, create overlap, score a try or perhaps I have missed something.
Whether 14, or someone else, should have stepped in to take Watson I don't know because I am not privy to how the Welsh back 3 organise themselves but 15 didn't looked fazed and took up a good position (where 14 would have been).
1
In reply to Donald82:
Disclaimer: Welsh fan's opinion.
Well, to be honest, it was: my take on the match was that it was going to be penalties to England off the scrum against penalties to Wales off the breakdowns (although I thought it would be the English half- and three-quarter backs who panicked, rather than, as it turned out, the forwards).
And so, in large part, it turned out. I thought we'd got it won when we reorganised ourselves before the break - and then had it lost when the injuries piled up in the second half. We'll never know if the draw was on, but England played the Japanese gambit - rightly so, with an eye on the next game - and that was that.
Back in a week for a suddenly-more-interesting fixture?
Disclaimer: Welsh fan's opinion.
> My point is that despite having a much better scrum on the day which wasn't expected
Well, to be honest, it was: my take on the match was that it was going to be penalties to England off the scrum against penalties to Wales off the breakdowns (although I thought it would be the English half- and three-quarter backs who panicked, rather than, as it turned out, the forwards).
And so, in large part, it turned out. I thought we'd got it won when we reorganised ourselves before the break - and then had it lost when the injuries piled up in the second half. We'll never know if the draw was on, but England played the Japanese gambit - rightly so, with an eye on the next game - and that was that.
Back in a week for a suddenly-more-interesting fixture?
In reply to Martin not maisie:
Why did you expect the England scrum to be better? (I know it's traditionally good but it's been rubbish recently and Wales' has been alright)
I expected it to be like it was except for the scrum. The English back row's not got a proper open side because... well not sure really. Robshaw's leadership skills? Bizarre really, and a repeated mistake since Back - ie the last time England were proper good.
Why did you expect the England scrum to be better? (I know it's traditionally good but it's been rubbish recently and Wales' has been alright)
I expected it to be like it was except for the scrum. The English back row's not got a proper open side because... well not sure really. Robshaw's leadership skills? Bizarre really, and a repeated mistake since Back - ie the last time England were proper good.
In reply to Horse:
I'm not following your description of events. I've maybe got the numbers wrong. I'll need to watch it again.
I'm not following your description of events. I've maybe got the numbers wrong. I'll need to watch it again.
In reply to Horse:
My bad - maybe not 11 and it's hard to see on the itv highlights.
I'm talking about after the ruck. When Youngs picked up the ball from the ruck, whoever was covering in behind should have been straight out to May but he checked in case the 13 missed Youngs. School boy stuff.
My bad - maybe not 11 and it's hard to see on the itv highlights.
I'm talking about after the ruck. When Youngs picked up the ball from the ruck, whoever was covering in behind should have been straight out to May but he checked in case the 13 missed Youngs. School boy stuff.
In reply to coinneach:
Jeez, local bragging rights to Wales and good luck to them (and lord, can't they brag).
But a desperately poor game between two poor teams, I thought. New Zealand are looking more and more like certainties, unless France can do their French thing.
jcm
Jeez, local bragging rights to Wales and good luck to them (and lord, can't they brag).
But a desperately poor game between two poor teams, I thought. New Zealand are looking more and more like certainties, unless France can do their French thing.
jcm
1
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
I wouldn't rule out the Aussies or Irish either.
But agreed neither the Taffies or Poms should trouble the ABs.
> Jeez, local bragging rights to Wales and good luck to them (and lord, can't they brag).
> But a desperately poor game between two poor teams, I thought. New Zealand are looking more and more like certainties, unless France can do their French thing.
> jcm
I wouldn't rule out the Aussies or Irish either.
But agreed neither the Taffies or Poms should trouble the ABs.
In reply to Thickhead:
For a long time now Ireland have developed the most professional approach to international rugby in the northern hemisphere. All with tiny resources next to England or France and without the national obsession with rugby shared by the Welsh . I hope they do well. Very well. But they too have serious injury problems in the back line and a shortage of midfield quality.
> I wouldn't rule out the Aussies or Irish either.
> But agreed neither the Taffies or Poms should trouble the ABs.
For a long time now Ireland have developed the most professional approach to international rugby in the northern hemisphere. All with tiny resources next to England or France and without the national obsession with rugby shared by the Welsh . I hope they do well. Very well. But they too have serious injury problems in the back line and a shortage of midfield quality.
In reply to Donald82:
You can't really reduce it to what happened after the ruck and claim that makes the try a "gift" due to a "school boy error". The damage started in the build up to the ruck as it dragged the defence around, created the space and the overlap. The denouement was all about speed, speed of the ball from ruck, speed of thought from Youngs and then speed of May (and he is very quick) over the ground. It was the speed that left the Welsh 11 flat or wrong footed and the defence a bit at sea. If you watch the overhead replay you will see the Welsh 11 and 15 were anticipating an open side move. 15 is still heading in field when the try is scored.
The point is, as the attacking side one is trying to create exactly the situation and doubt that England did and once May got ball in hand there was only going to be one result.
You can't really reduce it to what happened after the ruck and claim that makes the try a "gift" due to a "school boy error". The damage started in the build up to the ruck as it dragged the defence around, created the space and the overlap. The denouement was all about speed, speed of the ball from ruck, speed of thought from Youngs and then speed of May (and he is very quick) over the ground. It was the speed that left the Welsh 11 flat or wrong footed and the defence a bit at sea. If you watch the overhead replay you will see the Welsh 11 and 15 were anticipating an open side move. 15 is still heading in field when the try is scored.
The point is, as the attacking side one is trying to create exactly the situation and doubt that England did and once May got ball in hand there was only going to be one result.
In reply to BnB:
(Us) Welsh are only obsessed when the team is doing well!
I fancy Australia to win it but my money is literally on France as I drew them in the work sweepstake.
> (In reply to Thickhead)
>
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
> For a long time now Ireland have developed the most professional approach to international rugby in the northern hemisphere. All with tiny resources next to England or France and without the national obsession with rugby shared by the Welsh . I hope they do well. Very well. But they too have serious injury problems in the back line and a shortage of midfield quality.
>
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
> For a long time now Ireland have developed the most professional approach to international rugby in the northern hemisphere. All with tiny resources next to England or France and without the national obsession with rugby shared by the Welsh . I hope they do well. Very well. But they too have serious injury problems in the back line and a shortage of midfield quality.
(Us) Welsh are only obsessed when the team is doing well!
I fancy Australia to win it but my money is literally on France as I drew them in the work sweepstake.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously: 'But a desperately poor game between two poor teams, I thought'
Which match would that be, then? The one I watched seemed pretty riveting.
Which match would that be, then? The one I watched seemed pretty riveting.
4
In reply to carlo:
And a TV station that works as their private press office. I've just watched last night's highlights program and was amazed to see as much analysis of Saturday night's game as those they were actually showing! And can you guess how much of that analysis was of the Welsh performance and prospects? Absolutely not a word. Pathetic doesn't even begin to describe it.
> Wales have the WRU
> Ireland have the IRU
> Scotland have the SRU but..
> England have to be The Rugby Union, use the British national anthem & have fans that dress up as crusaders.
> Ireland have the IRU
> Scotland have the SRU but..
> England have to be The Rugby Union, use the British national anthem & have fans that dress up as crusaders.
And a TV station that works as their private press office. I've just watched last night's highlights program and was amazed to see as much analysis of Saturday night's game as those they were actually showing! And can you guess how much of that analysis was of the Welsh performance and prospects? Absolutely not a word. Pathetic doesn't even begin to describe it.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Nice. Dismiss the winners as show offs then dismiss the game as boring. Feeling bitter?
> Jeez, local bragging rights to Wales and good luck to them (and lord, can't they brag).
> But a desperately poor game between two poor teams, I thought. New Zealand are looking more and more like certainties, unless France can do their French thing.
> jcm
Nice. Dismiss the winners as show offs then dismiss the game as boring. Feeling bitter?
Post edited at 10:21
In reply to Jamie B:
The Welsh have their own TV station with their own pundits and there's only 2 million of them!
And as for singing the National Anthem. It is the other home countries that chose to abandon it not the English who chose to monopolise it. For what it's worth, every rugby fan I know would much rather sing an "English" song like "Jerusalem"
> I've just watched last night's highlights program and was amazed to see as much analysis of Saturday night's game as those they were actually showing! And can you guess how much of that analysis was of the Welsh performance and prospects? Absolutely not a word. Pathetic doesn't even begin to describe it.
The Welsh have their own TV station with their own pundits and there's only 2 million of them!
And as for singing the National Anthem. It is the other home countries that chose to abandon it not the English who chose to monopolise it. For what it's worth, every rugby fan I know would much rather sing an "English" song like "Jerusalem"
1
1
In reply to Postmanpat:
Right. Well I'm tuning in from Scotland hoping to catch up on and hopefully get some analysis of my own team's performance. How am I supposed to feel when the program is more interested in discussing a game from a day before, and purely from one team's perspective? I'm not an England-hater, but I'm no more or less interested in their fortunes than I am in any of the other main contenders, a list which very definitely includes Wales.
> The Welsh have their own TV station with their own pundits and there's only 2 million of them!
Right. Well I'm tuning in from Scotland hoping to catch up on and hopefully get some analysis of my own team's performance. How am I supposed to feel when the program is more interested in discussing a game from a day before, and purely from one team's perspective? I'm not an England-hater, but I'm no more or less interested in their fortunes than I am in any of the other main contenders, a list which very definitely includes Wales.
In reply to Jamie B:
If you want to see it from a Welsh perspective then tune into Welsh TV!
But I turned on ITV on Sunday hoping to get a decent perspective on the England/Wales game and got very little. They had just moved on to the next set of games. My impression is that they work very had to make sure all the home nations get a fair crack. So, a lot of it is about perspective.
> Right. Well I'm tuning in from Scotland hoping to catch up on and hopefully get some analysis of my own team's performance. How am I supposed to feel when the program is more interested in discussing a game from a day before, and purely from one team's perspective? I'm not an England-hater, but I'm no more or less interested in their fortunes than I am in any of the other main contenders, a list which very definitely includes Wales.
If you want to see it from a Welsh perspective then tune into Welsh TV!
But I turned on ITV on Sunday hoping to get a decent perspective on the England/Wales game and got very little. They had just moved on to the next set of games. My impression is that they work very had to make sure all the home nations get a fair crack. So, a lot of it is about perspective.
In reply to Postmanpat:
Did I say that? All I wanted was (a) more objectivity and (b) more focus on the games they were actually screening the highlights of!
If they weren't so busy playing catch-up with advertising you might actually get some post-match analysis.
> If you want to see it from a Welsh perspective then tune into Welsh TV
Did I say that? All I wanted was (a) more objectivity and (b) more focus on the games they were actually screening the highlights of!
> But I turned on ITV on Sunday hoping to get a decent perspective on the England/Wales game and got very little.
If they weren't so busy playing catch-up with advertising you might actually get some post-match analysis.
In reply to Jamie B:
Well, I was late up due to a post match hangover and never got to see any review, objective or not!! They were showing Samoa/SA already. They always have representative from both countries as pundits but it's difficult to ignore the fact that English make up the vast majority of the audience I guess.
Yes, one of the problems of ITV. They should really have a red button or switch to ITV 4 or something for more punditry. Seems to work for the bloody X factor.
> Did I say that? All I wanted was (a) more objectivity and (b) more focus on the games they were actually screening the highlights of!
Well, I was late up due to a post match hangover and never got to see any review, objective or not!! They were showing Samoa/SA already. They always have representative from both countries as pundits but it's difficult to ignore the fact that English make up the vast majority of the audience I guess.
> If they weren't so busy playing catch-up with advertising you might actually get some post-match analysis.
Yes, one of the problems of ITV. They should really have a red button or switch to ITV 4 or something for more punditry. Seems to work for the bloody X factor.
In reply to Postmanpat:
The BBC don't seem to let this affect their objectivity.
> it's difficult to ignore the fact that English make up the vast majority of the audience I guess.
The BBC don't seem to let this affect their objectivity.
In reply to Jamie B:
So why do The Scots and Welsh always complain that it does?
> The BBC don't seem to let this affect their objectivity.
So why do The Scots and Welsh always complain that it does?
In reply to Jamie B:
It is worse than you imagine. I sat down on Saturday to watch all three games. Before during and after the first two there was only the briefest of mention of those games and no proper analysis, the emphasis was very much on some talking heads and the evening affair. I found it all pretty annoying and very one eyed.
It is worse than you imagine. I sat down on Saturday to watch all three games. Before during and after the first two there was only the briefest of mention of those games and no proper analysis, the emphasis was very much on some talking heads and the evening affair. I found it all pretty annoying and very one eyed.
2
In reply to Horse:
Apparently the fourth best team in the world beat the third best team in the world in the GROUP stages of a world cup, and it was "the greatest night of rugby Wales has ever known!" (http://bit.ly/1PJ7yiX).
Apparently the fourth best team in the world beat the third best team in the world in the GROUP stages of a world cup, and it was "the greatest night of rugby Wales has ever known!" (http://bit.ly/1PJ7yiX).
1
In reply to Shani:
Apparently the fourth best team in the world beat the third best team in the world...
Don't you mean the second best team in the world beat the sixth best team in the world?
Which sort of proves how meaningless rankings are at this stage of the World Cup.
As for the rest of your post, yes, it was pretty momentous. A loss would have meant a near certain exit and with all the injuries, most people thought that Wales would indeed lose.
Apparently the fourth best team in the world beat the third best team in the world...
Don't you mean the second best team in the world beat the sixth best team in the world?
Which sort of proves how meaningless rankings are at this stage of the World Cup.
As for the rest of your post, yes, it was pretty momentous. A loss would have meant a near certain exit and with all the injuries, most people thought that Wales would indeed lose.
In reply to Shani:
England by miles. No Halfpenny to keep the scoreboard ticking over (and paper over the cracks of Warrenball). Burgess and Barritt to punch BIG holes through the middle. Done deal.
I heard a story that George North's dad asked the young George "What do you want for Xmas?".
"A dragon" replied George.
"Don't be silly" says North senior, "Dragons are fantasy creatures. Choose something that's realistic."
Young George thinks for a minute and said "I'd like Wales to beat England in the 2015 RWC!"
"What colour dragon?" replies his dad.
You were saying...
England by miles. No Halfpenny to keep the scoreboard ticking over (and paper over the cracks of Warrenball). Burgess and Barritt to punch BIG holes through the middle. Done deal.
I heard a story that George North's dad asked the young George "What do you want for Xmas?".
"A dragon" replied George.
"Don't be silly" says North senior, "Dragons are fantasy creatures. Choose something that's realistic."
Young George thinks for a minute and said "I'd like Wales to beat England in the 2015 RWC!"
"What colour dragon?" replies his dad.
You were saying...
1
In reply to FactorXXX:
But the "greatest night of rugby Wales has ever known"? Seems just a bit over hyping it. I would have thought the greatest night would be when they actually manage to beat one of the big Southern teams
> As for the rest of your post, yes, it was pretty momentous. A loss would have meant a near certain exit and with all the injuries, most people thought that Wales would indeed lose.
But the "greatest night of rugby Wales has ever known"? Seems just a bit over hyping it. I would have thought the greatest night would be when they actually manage to beat one of the big Southern teams
In reply to FactorXXX:
I tried to post a follow up on Sunday morning:
"my preconditions. are shit. Well done Wales."
It was meant to say "My predictions are shit. Well done Wales" but alcohol and tears ruined my typing/reading abilities.
I'm off to buy England a dragon...I just need to determine what colour.
*Edit: Anyone else getting spammed by the Decep-rechaun (aka Sloper)?
> You were saying...
I tried to post a follow up on Sunday morning:
"my preconditions. are shit. Well done Wales."
It was meant to say "My predictions are shit. Well done Wales" but alcohol and tears ruined my typing/reading abilities.
I'm off to buy England a dragon...I just need to determine what colour.
*Edit: Anyone else getting spammed by the Decep-rechaun (aka Sloper)?
Post edited at 14:46
1
In reply to Shani:
tabloid newspaper in hyperbole shocker........
Who would have thunk it eh?
> Apparently the fourth best team in the world beat the third best team in the world in the GROUP stages of a world cup, and it was "the greatest night of rugby Wales has ever known!" (http://bit.ly/1PJ7yiX).
tabloid newspaper in hyperbole shocker........
Who would have thunk it eh?
In reply to Donald82:
It's not exactly been a secret that the Welsh front row struggled in the warm up games. England were always going to target them and so it proved.
Interestingly, today at work the English fans have been universally lamenting their side's experimentation with League players; but not one seemed to think that Wales deserved to lose or that anything happened which wasn't England's own fault. It's taken the shine right off my gloating, I can tell you....
> Why did you expect the England scrum to be better? (I know it's traditionally good but it's been rubbish recently and Wales' has been alright)
It's not exactly been a secret that the Welsh front row struggled in the warm up games. England were always going to target them and so it proved.
Interestingly, today at work the English fans have been universally lamenting their side's experimentation with League players; but not one seemed to think that Wales deserved to lose or that anything happened which wasn't England's own fault. It's taken the shine right off my gloating, I can tell you....
In reply to Shani:
Ah, I must confession only new England's scrum hadn't been great.
Get them a brown one
Ah, I must confession only new England's scrum hadn't been great.
Get them a brown one
In reply to Horse:
It was good play before but it was a clear and obvious mistake. Literally what you're taught as a school boy.
Your attitude's (stero?)typically English - good stuff is England being good, bad stuff is England being bad. No respect for the other team. Ill bet you like Own Farrell and Mike Brown too.
It was good play before but it was a clear and obvious mistake. Literally what you're taught as a school boy.
Your attitude's (stero?)typically English - good stuff is England being good, bad stuff is England being bad. No respect for the other team. Ill bet you like Own Farrell and Mike Brown too.
In reply to Donald82:
Objectively they are both good players, I like Brown, I'm not a Farrell fan, but the lions selectors thought he was a good pick.
> Your attitude's (stero?)typically English - good stuff is England being good, bad stuff is England being bad. No respect for the other team. Ill bet you like Own Farrell and Mike Brown too.
Objectively they are both good players, I like Brown, I'm not a Farrell fan, but the lions selectors thought he was a good pick.
In reply to Dr.S at work:
They're both good.. Browns outstanding. They're just not very nice... Starting fights, brown. Nasty late tackles, Farrell. Mouthing off, both. I don't watch that much rugby these days but I've not noticed that from any other home nations players. Or southern actually....
On the pitch anyway. Maybe lovely chaps off it.
And Farrells typical of why England under achieve
They're both good.. Browns outstanding. They're just not very nice... Starting fights, brown. Nasty late tackles, Farrell. Mouthing off, both. I don't watch that much rugby these days but I've not noticed that from any other home nations players. Or southern actually....
On the pitch anyway. Maybe lovely chaps off it.
And Farrells typical of why England under achieve
In reply to Donald82:
I think to be fair starting fights is not really a new thing on the park, whinging should clearly be discouraged - see more of that from all sides sadly.
> They're both good.. Browns outstanding. They're just not very nice... Starting fights, brown. Nasty late tackles, Farrell. Mouthing off, both.
Yep, certainly have their downsides their, I like Browns enthusiasm, Farrell seems a bit surly at times.I think to be fair starting fights is not really a new thing on the park, whinging should clearly be discouraged - see more of that from all sides sadly.
> I don't watch that much rugby these days
really? I'm amazed.In reply to Donald82:
What an odd reply.
Where is there any lack of respect in what I have posted?
You do rather seem to have a problem appreciating what happens in a multi phase move, how this creates a 2 on 1 overlap which is all but impossible to defend by the single defender.
What I think of Farrell and Brown really isn't relevant to the discussion of the try.
What an odd reply.
Where is there any lack of respect in what I have posted?
You do rather seem to have a problem appreciating what happens in a multi phase move, how this creates a 2 on 1 overlap which is all but impossible to defend by the single defender.
What I think of Farrell and Brown really isn't relevant to the discussion of the try.
In reply to Horse:
It wouldn't have been a two on one if eleven had done his job and covered wide........... He was covering behind and he should have gone wide... Not sure how else to explain that.
That you can't see this very obvious fact suggests, to me, a certain perspective. That's all.
Looking or ward to your getting knocked out by the Aussies
(Just to note - I was very pleased when England won the ashes.)
It wouldn't have been a two on one if eleven had done his job and covered wide........... He was covering behind and he should have gone wide... Not sure how else to explain that.
That you can't see this very obvious fact suggests, to me, a certain perspective. That's all.
Looking or ward to your getting knocked out by the Aussies
(Just to note - I was very pleased when England won the ashes.)
In reply to Donald82:
Because 11 had to take that position when 14 and 15 tackled Brown or there was no defence behind the ruck, correct decision. 13 took the wing position, correctly. 11 had to maintain that position till they (14 &15) were back in play that is the way the system works. 11 and 15 move back to the openside. 11 realises fractionally too late the break is going blind (creating the 2 on 1) by which time a try is inevitable. At best I'd call it a small error, he was between a rock and hard place, by 11 not a "gift" or "schoolboy error".
My only perspective is that it was a good rugby, by both sides and resulted in a good try.
I am not sure what of mine is getting knocked out by the Aussies.
Because 11 had to take that position when 14 and 15 tackled Brown or there was no defence behind the ruck, correct decision. 13 took the wing position, correctly. 11 had to maintain that position till they (14 &15) were back in play that is the way the system works. 11 and 15 move back to the openside. 11 realises fractionally too late the break is going blind (creating the 2 on 1) by which time a try is inevitable. At best I'd call it a small error, he was between a rock and hard place, by 11 not a "gift" or "schoolboy error".
My only perspective is that it was a good rugby, by both sides and resulted in a good try.
I am not sure what of mine is getting knocked out by the Aussies.
In reply to Horse:
The minute ruck formed he should have started going wide... Actually he did, but then he checked back because he didn't trust whoever it was to Tackle youngs. I was screaming at the telly at the time.
It's common to talk about someone's team as them... We won the cup etc.
The minute ruck formed he should have started going wide... Actually he did, but then he checked back because he didn't trust whoever it was to Tackle youngs. I was screaming at the telly at the time.
It's common to talk about someone's team as them... We won the cup etc.
In reply to Horse:
Ps have you ever played rugby? I don't mean to be patronising but I can't believe it's even a debate
Ps have you ever played rugby? I don't mean to be patronising but I can't believe it's even a debate
In reply to Donald82:
Been there done it taken the flak, in reality you are almost certainly stuffed no matter what you do. Usual answer is to point fingers at 7 and 15, but as they are invariably big and mad best not to overdo it.
Been there done it taken the flak, in reality you are almost certainly stuffed no matter what you do. Usual answer is to point fingers at 7 and 15, but as they are invariably big and mad best not to overdo it.
In reply to Horse:
Ha! Funnily enough I played seven and fifteen. (Small and reasonably sane though)
Ha! Funnily enough I played seven and fifteen. (Small and reasonably sane though)
Post edited at 21:50
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Oh sure, it was exciting enough; it always is when it's close.
But let's face it, Wales' pack was terrible and they created nothing throughout the game bar the try, which was essentially a lucky bounce. England on the other hand gave an absolute masterclass in how not to convert their domination into actually winning the game. England thoroughly deserved to lose, but the fact they managed to lose to a team who played as badly as Wales was astonishing. If either of these two plays like this against the All Blacks they'll lose by thirty or so.
jcm
> 'But a desperately poor game between two poor teams, I thought'
> Which match would that be, then? The one I watched seemed pretty riveting.
Oh sure, it was exciting enough; it always is when it's close.
But let's face it, Wales' pack was terrible and they created nothing throughout the game bar the try, which was essentially a lucky bounce. England on the other hand gave an absolute masterclass in how not to convert their domination into actually winning the game. England thoroughly deserved to lose, but the fact they managed to lose to a team who played as badly as Wales was astonishing. If either of these two plays like this against the All Blacks they'll lose by thirty or so.
jcm
1
In reply to Static:
Not the winners; their supporters. The players are fine, as far as I know.
>Feeling bitter?
I find the chippy English-arrogance-laid-low bollocks the Welsh tend to go in for on these occasions pretty tiresome, certainly.
jcm
> Nice. Dismiss the winners as show offs then dismiss the game as boring. Feeling bitter?
Not the winners; their supporters. The players are fine, as far as I know.
>Feeling bitter?
I find the chippy English-arrogance-laid-low bollocks the Welsh tend to go in for on these occasions pretty tiresome, certainly.
jcm
1
In reply to Horse:
Why are you trying to apply logic to sport?
> But the "greatest night of rugby Wales has ever known"? Seems just a bit over hyping it. I would have thought the greatest night would be when they actually manage to beat one of the big Southern teams
Why are you trying to apply logic to sport?
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
The truth hurts
> I find the chippy English-arrogance-laid-low bollocks the Welsh tend to go in for on these occasions pretty tiresome, certainly.
The truth hurts
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
How would you like us Welsh supporters to celabrate?
We were hammered by England at home in the 6 nations earlier on in the year and for a team ravaged by injuries to pull off a victory in Twickenham was quite a feat, albeit handed to us a little by English indisipline and some may say "arrogance" at not kicking for a draw.
cheers
Gaz
How would you like us Welsh supporters to celabrate?
We were hammered by England at home in the 6 nations earlier on in the year and for a team ravaged by injuries to pull off a victory in Twickenham was quite a feat, albeit handed to us a little by English indisipline and some may say "arrogance" at not kicking for a draw.
cheers
Gaz
In reply to Gazlynn:
Well done on a notable victory and a cracking match - certainly in terms of drama.
Some might say that the "arrogance" line is getting rather boring. England lost the game and are accused by some of arrogance. But when England beat Wales you don't have to read far down any match analysis or the comments to see an accusation of arrogance.
I notice that Japan opting for the same strategy against SA was lauded as a brave decision.
> We were hammered by England at home in the 6 nations earlier on in the year and for a team ravaged by injuries to pull off a victory in Twickenham was quite a feat, albeit handed to us a little by English indisipline and some may say "arrogance" at not kicking for a draw.
Well done on a notable victory and a cracking match - certainly in terms of drama.
Some might say that the "arrogance" line is getting rather boring. England lost the game and are accused by some of arrogance. But when England beat Wales you don't have to read far down any match analysis or the comments to see an accusation of arrogance.
I notice that Japan opting for the same strategy against SA was lauded as a brave decision.
In reply to Shani:
Thanks, and to some extent I agree but to single out only the Welsh is a little harsh :-
Here is a snippet from a report from the New Zealand Herald
"Arrogance. That has to be what sent England to a humiliating Rugby World Cup loss against a magnificent Welsh side who should have limped off Twickenham in defeat.
England's decision to turn down a late shot at goal for a draw was among the most staggering things I have seen in top sport. It defied belief. Desperate to claim the world crown on home soil, England tossed common sense out the window and gambled their prospects on a captain's whim. A team that is supposedly prepared to within an inch of its life, interactive goalkicking aids and all, had a melt down. They simply couldn't face the prospect of a draw with Wales."
I wasn't looking forwards to this world cup and Japan beating SA was a turning point for me and have enjoyed it since that game but again maybe this is my arrogance that was excuse the pun a whole different ball game.
good luck with the rest of the WC
cheers
Gaz
Thanks, and to some extent I agree but to single out only the Welsh is a little harsh :-
Here is a snippet from a report from the New Zealand Herald
"Arrogance. That has to be what sent England to a humiliating Rugby World Cup loss against a magnificent Welsh side who should have limped off Twickenham in defeat.
England's decision to turn down a late shot at goal for a draw was among the most staggering things I have seen in top sport. It defied belief. Desperate to claim the world crown on home soil, England tossed common sense out the window and gambled their prospects on a captain's whim. A team that is supposedly prepared to within an inch of its life, interactive goalkicking aids and all, had a melt down. They simply couldn't face the prospect of a draw with Wales."
I wasn't looking forwards to this world cup and Japan beating SA was a turning point for me and have enjoyed it since that game but again maybe this is my arrogance that was excuse the pun a whole different ball game.
good luck with the rest of the WC
cheers
Gaz
In reply to Gazlynn:
Surely arrogance would be to assume a kick would have gone through the posts when taken from such an extreme angle?
I say credit to England for going for the try.
Surely arrogance would be to assume a kick would have gone through the posts when taken from such an extreme angle?
I say credit to England for going for the try.
3
In reply to coinneach:
A draw or a loss would mean the same, England would still need to beat the Aussies to progress.
A draw or a loss would mean the same, England would still need to beat the Aussies to progress.
In reply to Gazlynn:
You can, of course, celebrate however you want and enjoy it while you can. It is the double standard sometimes displayed (not necessarily by you personally) when the situation is reversed that tends jar a bit.
> How would you like us Welsh supporters to celabrate?
You can, of course, celebrate however you want and enjoy it while you can. It is the double standard sometimes displayed (not necessarily by you personally) when the situation is reversed that tends jar a bit.
In reply to Gazlynn:
Yeah - I've read the similar stuff in the SMH - but it is like rolling out the phrase 'efficient' when talking about Germany, 'lucky' when talking about the Irish, or mocking Italian/Greek/Spanish work effort and build quality. Stereotypes are rolled out with easy and it is lazy journalism.
If Robshaw's decision had paid off then the papers would be talking about how it was the 'right decision' going on to wax lyrical ("Wales giving England a scare" etc...).
Ah f*ck it. It was a thrilling game. Wales have bragging rights. Yes it hurt, but what a tournament so far. It is far from over for England and really, non of us should let the damn tabloids speak for us because they set the bar way too low. As with all great victories, it just feeds in to the epicness of when next our teams meet! Best of luck to Wales - I want to see plenty of NH teams going through to the next stage.
> Here is a snippet from a report from the New Zealand Herald
> "Arrogance. That has to be what sent England to a humiliating Rugby World Cup loss against a magnificent Welsh side who should have limped off Twickenham in defeat.
Yeah - I've read the similar stuff in the SMH - but it is like rolling out the phrase 'efficient' when talking about Germany, 'lucky' when talking about the Irish, or mocking Italian/Greek/Spanish work effort and build quality. Stereotypes are rolled out with easy and it is lazy journalism.
If Robshaw's decision had paid off then the papers would be talking about how it was the 'right decision' going on to wax lyrical ("Wales giving England a scare" etc...).
Ah f*ck it. It was a thrilling game. Wales have bragging rights. Yes it hurt, but what a tournament so far. It is far from over for England and really, non of us should let the damn tabloids speak for us because they set the bar way too low. As with all great victories, it just feeds in to the epicness of when next our teams meet! Best of luck to Wales - I want to see plenty of NH teams going through to the next stage.
2
In reply to arch:
It might make a difference if bonus points or "who beat who" comes into the equation at the end.
> A draw or a loss would mean the same, England would still need to beat the Aussies to progress.
It might make a difference if bonus points or "who beat who" comes into the equation at the end.
In reply to Postmanpat:
Don't think bonus points count in a tie on pool points. The who beat who does though. Not sure with tied pool points and a tied game how it then works out though ??
Don't think bonus points count in a tie on pool points. The who beat who does though. Not sure with tied pool points and a tied game how it then works out though ??
In reply to arch:
In that event it would be whichever side had the best points difference over all the pool matches.
In that event it would be whichever side had the best points difference over all the pool matches.
In reply to Shani:
Exactly, congratulated my Welsh mate at work Monday morning (even though he was wearing a dragon tie!) on a hard won victory.
Not sure I'm going tone able to bring myself to support the Boyo's tomorrow though
Exactly, congratulated my Welsh mate at work Monday morning (even though he was wearing a dragon tie!) on a hard won victory.
Not sure I'm going tone able to bring myself to support the Boyo's tomorrow though
In reply to arch:
I am not sure that is correct, had the match been drawn there were ways England could lose to Australia and still qualify (likewise Wales), both side would have had the same points total. It would depend on the results in the remaining games, bonus points and then overall points difference if pool match points were the same. All academic now anyway England do now have to win; assuming Fiji don't do the decent thing this time tomorrow.
> A draw or a loss would mean the same, England would still need to beat the Aussies to progress.
I am not sure that is correct, had the match been drawn there were ways England could lose to Australia and still qualify (likewise Wales), both side would have had the same points total. It would depend on the results in the remaining games, bonus points and then overall points difference if pool match points were the same. All academic now anyway England do now have to win; assuming Fiji don't do the decent thing this time tomorrow.
In reply to the sheep:
Hmmm, its interesting, normally I'd always support NH over SH but I do like the Pacific Island nations, and clearly some comedy Welsh slip up would help England.
And I do like a bit of tradition at the world cup.
> Exactly, congratulated my Welsh mate at work Monday morning (even though he was wearing a dragon tie!) on a hard won victory.
> Not sure I'm going tone able to bring myself to support the Boyo's tomorrow though
Hmmm, its interesting, normally I'd always support NH over SH but I do like the Pacific Island nations, and clearly some comedy Welsh slip up would help England.
And I do like a bit of tradition at the world cup.
In reply to Horse:
Also, they can beat the Aussies and still go out. If they'd drawn that would be less likely.
> I am not sure that is correct, had the match been drawn there were ways England could lose to Australia and still qualify (likewise Wales), both side would have had the same points total. It would depend on the results in the remaining games, bonus points and then overall points difference if pool match points were the same. All academic now anyway England do now have to win; assuming Fiji don't do the decent thing this time tomorrow.
Also, they can beat the Aussies and still go out. If they'd drawn that would be less likely.
In reply to arch:
Bonus points are included in "pool points". So it's total pool points, then who beat who, and then (in the vent of a draw ) points difference.
> Don't think bonus points count in a tie on pool points. The who beat who does though. Not sure with tied pool points and a tied game how it then works out though ??
Bonus points are included in "pool points". So it's total pool points, then who beat who, and then (in the vent of a draw ) points difference.
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