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There have been a few threads about this recently and I was reading them with interest.
My situation is similar to one or two of them but with its own nuances.
So, my (step) daughter is a 20 year old who, despite trying hard, failed her A-levels and ended up working locally in childcare whilst studying for related qualifications; she tried hard but it didnt suit her. For her age she earns pretty well although I suspect she will soon be overtaken by her peers as they leave Uni. She works hard and her job is stressful.
She left home at 17-18 to both live with her auntie for a while and she tried to live with a friend which didnt work out and she ended up coming back here about 18 months ago. I should add that she is a nice girl, doesnt sleep around, is pleasant to be with and makes a welcome addition to the family. I treat her like my own, despite her not really seeing me as dad.
She met a local guy one year older then her who comes from Wales, some time ago. He's also a nice guy; a massive rugby fan and player. He came to live with his dad, locally, some time ago and they met when they were out. The relationship took off and they became close pretty quickly. He, like my daughter is not academic and neither have ambitions or designs on grandeur. They want to earn their crust and enjoy life. Hopefully this will change (a little) as they mature.
They lived together for a short time but he lost his job locally and had to go back to Cardiff as he needed to work which left them both heartbroken but they continued their relationship at long distance on the phone and weekends. She came back to live with us, which we are fine about. We didnt charge her rent at the start.
Eventually and somewhat predictably she said that the long distance wasnt working and she asked if he could live with us whilst they found themselves a place and he found a job. We said this was fine but that this would be a temporary measure and that when he found a job they would have to pay rent. He moved in March 1st and he found a job, not very well paid, about a month afterwards after which they have been paying £20 per week each which, whilst this doesnt include food, they help themselves to fruit, milk, coffee, tea, breakfast stuff etc and when we cook for the family they are never excluded. My home is their home.
So, what's the point of all this? Tensions have started to creep in with the family. I guess it all stems from the fact that they are here 6 months after they planned to be and it was only supposed to be for a month or two. They are not helpful around the house; they have never cleaned the shower even though they use once per day each. They leave 'their' room in a mess even thought they know that I am extremely tidy, dont do the dishwasher, rarely take the dog for a walk or his business and (yes I know this is going to sound cliched) treat the place like a hotel. Its daft but ignoring thre bin when its full to the point of the bag ripping is starting to cause stress in the house. Whilst they are both lovely people, they are extremely selfish around the home. My view on this is that its teamwork and whilst they are here, they should be part of it.
We have asked them about their plans but they say they cant afford a house that they want (something with a garden) which makes me annoyed as my first home was a flat and she has also just come back from Mexico on an all inclusive. Sacrifice isnt something she's dealing with. Furthermore she has just bought, on finance, a car which against my advice was too expensive. They got back from Mexico yesterday morning and were naturally tired but they had the day off today to recuperate and stayed in their bed clothes until well after 1pm, didnt take the dog and didnt help in the kitchen.
My wife and I discuss it regularly and dont know what to do. We need our house back (we have two other younger kids too) but dont want them to feel as though they are being pushed out. We also want them to do more around the house but they may see us as nags. I dont want them to feel kicked out but if they are going to stay longer I want to put up the weekly rent slightly as they need to learn and do more to help. If they cant or wont do this then I have said to my wife that if they really want to treat the house like a hotel, they need to pay hotel prices as I am tired of being a full time cleaner as well as everything else. We have tried to address this before but she get all emotional and thinks we are getting at her and that she 'needs to live her life'.
Its a tough one really and I wondered what others would do in a similar situation. Sorry for the long OP.
Thanks
R
My situation is similar to one or two of them but with its own nuances.
So, my (step) daughter is a 20 year old who, despite trying hard, failed her A-levels and ended up working locally in childcare whilst studying for related qualifications; she tried hard but it didnt suit her. For her age she earns pretty well although I suspect she will soon be overtaken by her peers as they leave Uni. She works hard and her job is stressful.
She left home at 17-18 to both live with her auntie for a while and she tried to live with a friend which didnt work out and she ended up coming back here about 18 months ago. I should add that she is a nice girl, doesnt sleep around, is pleasant to be with and makes a welcome addition to the family. I treat her like my own, despite her not really seeing me as dad.
She met a local guy one year older then her who comes from Wales, some time ago. He's also a nice guy; a massive rugby fan and player. He came to live with his dad, locally, some time ago and they met when they were out. The relationship took off and they became close pretty quickly. He, like my daughter is not academic and neither have ambitions or designs on grandeur. They want to earn their crust and enjoy life. Hopefully this will change (a little) as they mature.
They lived together for a short time but he lost his job locally and had to go back to Cardiff as he needed to work which left them both heartbroken but they continued their relationship at long distance on the phone and weekends. She came back to live with us, which we are fine about. We didnt charge her rent at the start.
Eventually and somewhat predictably she said that the long distance wasnt working and she asked if he could live with us whilst they found themselves a place and he found a job. We said this was fine but that this would be a temporary measure and that when he found a job they would have to pay rent. He moved in March 1st and he found a job, not very well paid, about a month afterwards after which they have been paying £20 per week each which, whilst this doesnt include food, they help themselves to fruit, milk, coffee, tea, breakfast stuff etc and when we cook for the family they are never excluded. My home is their home.
So, what's the point of all this? Tensions have started to creep in with the family. I guess it all stems from the fact that they are here 6 months after they planned to be and it was only supposed to be for a month or two. They are not helpful around the house; they have never cleaned the shower even though they use once per day each. They leave 'their' room in a mess even thought they know that I am extremely tidy, dont do the dishwasher, rarely take the dog for a walk or his business and (yes I know this is going to sound cliched) treat the place like a hotel. Its daft but ignoring thre bin when its full to the point of the bag ripping is starting to cause stress in the house. Whilst they are both lovely people, they are extremely selfish around the home. My view on this is that its teamwork and whilst they are here, they should be part of it.
We have asked them about their plans but they say they cant afford a house that they want (something with a garden) which makes me annoyed as my first home was a flat and she has also just come back from Mexico on an all inclusive. Sacrifice isnt something she's dealing with. Furthermore she has just bought, on finance, a car which against my advice was too expensive. They got back from Mexico yesterday morning and were naturally tired but they had the day off today to recuperate and stayed in their bed clothes until well after 1pm, didnt take the dog and didnt help in the kitchen.
My wife and I discuss it regularly and dont know what to do. We need our house back (we have two other younger kids too) but dont want them to feel as though they are being pushed out. We also want them to do more around the house but they may see us as nags. I dont want them to feel kicked out but if they are going to stay longer I want to put up the weekly rent slightly as they need to learn and do more to help. If they cant or wont do this then I have said to my wife that if they really want to treat the house like a hotel, they need to pay hotel prices as I am tired of being a full time cleaner as well as everything else. We have tried to address this before but she get all emotional and thinks we are getting at her and that she 'needs to live her life'.
Its a tough one really and I wondered what others would do in a similar situation. Sorry for the long OP.
Thanks
R
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In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
This doesn't really sound like a rent issue as simply you and your partner need to talk to her. Being lazy around the house is bad - doesn't matter if she's a kid or an adult, whether she's working or not.
I expect asking for a bit more rent will not be too much of a problem, and they'll either decide they best move or they'll pay. The big problem is the stress from the cleaning up. Just explain why it's stressing you and do so adult to adult.
May be worth trying to discuss finances together and see if you can work out some better ways to save up and budget too. Most people live to what they are earning, and it takes a change in outlook and some dedication to change ways, but if they're really being paid enough to move out then help them see that on paper. (and to be fair it's not that easy to find a place to live cheap, it can be a nightmare. The biggest letting agent around our way for example charges £240 admin fee for applicants and if you get turned out will keep it - illegal but a nightmare to fight - and wants 6 weeks rent as a deposit as well as a month rent before they'll sign. And renting a tiny damp ridden studio can cost the mortgage payment on a 4 bed house. Do try and be sympathetic and look at the finances practically rather than "well I've had it hard once so now it's your turn").
This doesn't really sound like a rent issue as simply you and your partner need to talk to her. Being lazy around the house is bad - doesn't matter if she's a kid or an adult, whether she's working or not.
I expect asking for a bit more rent will not be too much of a problem, and they'll either decide they best move or they'll pay. The big problem is the stress from the cleaning up. Just explain why it's stressing you and do so adult to adult.
May be worth trying to discuss finances together and see if you can work out some better ways to save up and budget too. Most people live to what they are earning, and it takes a change in outlook and some dedication to change ways, but if they're really being paid enough to move out then help them see that on paper. (and to be fair it's not that easy to find a place to live cheap, it can be a nightmare. The biggest letting agent around our way for example charges £240 admin fee for applicants and if you get turned out will keep it - illegal but a nightmare to fight - and wants 6 weeks rent as a deposit as well as a month rent before they'll sign. And renting a tiny damp ridden studio can cost the mortgage payment on a 4 bed house. Do try and be sympathetic and look at the finances practically rather than "well I've had it hard once so now it's your turn").
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In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
Give em 4 weeks notice and help em out with some cheapo furniture for the new place? That's what I'd do, 6 months is astoundingly patient of you.
Fwiw, I was annoyed when I read about the all-inclusive (hence the harsh 4 weeks notice!)
Give em 4 weeks notice and help em out with some cheapo furniture for the new place? That's what I'd do, 6 months is astoundingly patient of you.
Fwiw, I was annoyed when I read about the all-inclusive (hence the harsh 4 weeks notice!)
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In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
I think you need to sit them down and discuss it again in a specific conversation, not just a passing chat. Both sound as if they have been and are still being indulged. They'll keep pushing your boundaries till they discover exactly where they lie. Personally, I'd expect their rent to be closer to £50/week p.p. for the type of lifestyle you're giving them!
> My wife and I discuss it regularly and dont know what to do.
I think you need to sit them down and discuss it again in a specific conversation, not just a passing chat. Both sound as if they have been and are still being indulged. They'll keep pushing your boundaries till they discover exactly where they lie. Personally, I'd expect their rent to be closer to £50/week p.p. for the type of lifestyle you're giving them!
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In reply to Removed User:
My wife spoke to a very nice friend of hers and this friend, who is incredibly hospitable and caring, said we were mad as hatters and they need to go.
> Give em 4 weeks notice and help em out with some cheapo furniture for the new place? That's what I'd do, 6 months is astoundingly patient of you.
My wife spoke to a very nice friend of hers and this friend, who is incredibly hospitable and caring, said we were mad as hatters and they need to go.
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In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
yeah 6 months is long enough, I would set them a date in about 6 weeks, knowing that human beings rarely get things sorted on time, but gives you plenty of time to get them gone before christmas (or midwinter if you prefer a non christian date as I do).
yeah 6 months is long enough, I would set them a date in about 6 weeks, knowing that human beings rarely get things sorted on time, but gives you plenty of time to get them gone before christmas (or midwinter if you prefer a non christian date as I do).
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
Lets be honest, there is not much incentive for them to leave is there? They get a house with all the mod cons, food and a cleaner for £20 a week which is astonishingly good value.
Time to organise a sit down and agree an exit strategy, you are entitled to have some space and privacy in your own home, you have been more then accommodating for half a year and they need to grow up a bit and stand fully on their own two feet. Any emotional blackmail talk of 'being thrown out into the street' should be met with calm but firm cynicism. Agree a timetable and stick to it.
Lets be honest, there is not much incentive for them to leave is there? They get a house with all the mod cons, food and a cleaner for £20 a week which is astonishingly good value.
Time to organise a sit down and agree an exit strategy, you are entitled to have some space and privacy in your own home, you have been more then accommodating for half a year and they need to grow up a bit and stand fully on their own two feet. Any emotional blackmail talk of 'being thrown out into the street' should be met with calm but firm cynicism. Agree a timetable and stick to it.
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In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
I'm 23 years old and I live with my mom and step dad, I pay £50 per week since I was on around £300 per week after tax. I also pay money towards the sky bill (had to have sky sports!) my own toiletries, do my own washing, ironing cleaning Etc. Similar to yourself I always have food cooked for me without question as long as I tell my mother im going to be back (because she's cooked for me so often and I've not turned up because im at the gym Etc.)
I used to think that it was steep how much I paid board when I was 20 however over the last few years, I've seen the bills rolling in and its easy to sum up that the cost of me living at home is definitely a better option while saving for a mortgage. Rather than being resentful of paying board when I was 20, I'm now grateful of what my parent provide me with while trying to save for a house, I think this is the point your daughter is missing.
Hope this helps!
I'm 23 years old and I live with my mom and step dad, I pay £50 per week since I was on around £300 per week after tax. I also pay money towards the sky bill (had to have sky sports!) my own toiletries, do my own washing, ironing cleaning Etc. Similar to yourself I always have food cooked for me without question as long as I tell my mother im going to be back (because she's cooked for me so often and I've not turned up because im at the gym Etc.)
I used to think that it was steep how much I paid board when I was 20 however over the last few years, I've seen the bills rolling in and its easy to sum up that the cost of me living at home is definitely a better option while saving for a mortgage. Rather than being resentful of paying board when I was 20, I'm now grateful of what my parent provide me with while trying to save for a house, I think this is the point your daughter is missing.
Hope this helps!
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In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
Is this about rent, keeping the house tidy or wanting your house back. It sounds like the three issues are getting mixed up together. What does success look like? If they continued to be lazy around the house but paid an extra 20 quid a month? If they tidied up after themselves and kept paying the same rent? If they tidied up after themselves and paid more rent? Or if they moved out altogether.
From your post it sounds like you want them out and your house back. I may have got that wrong. But if I havent and if that's really what you want, then charging them more rent or making them tidy up after themselves is only going to aggravate the situation.
I'd be thinking about giving them a deadline to get gone to be honest. Maybe you can soften it by not charging rent between now and the deadline and / or offering to pay the lump sum rental agency fees (although these can surely be avoided by looking privately) but from my reading of it that's the only solution that makes everyone happy. If you do give them a deadline, it should be reasonable but not too long. Give people too much time and they'll only end up doing it all at the last minute anyway.
Is this about rent, keeping the house tidy or wanting your house back. It sounds like the three issues are getting mixed up together. What does success look like? If they continued to be lazy around the house but paid an extra 20 quid a month? If they tidied up after themselves and kept paying the same rent? If they tidied up after themselves and paid more rent? Or if they moved out altogether.
From your post it sounds like you want them out and your house back. I may have got that wrong. But if I havent and if that's really what you want, then charging them more rent or making them tidy up after themselves is only going to aggravate the situation.
I'd be thinking about giving them a deadline to get gone to be honest. Maybe you can soften it by not charging rent between now and the deadline and / or offering to pay the lump sum rental agency fees (although these can surely be avoided by looking privately) but from my reading of it that's the only solution that makes everyone happy. If you do give them a deadline, it should be reasonable but not too long. Give people too much time and they'll only end up doing it all at the last minute anyway.
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In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
You could try the technique used by my step mother - we were locked out of all but the bathroom and our bedrooms. We were bought the cheapest of cheap foods (whils't they ate mainly m&s foods. Scream at at us every time we were in the house (on the occasions when she hadn't 'accidentally' locked us out of the house).
Worked for me (and my younger siblings) - we couldn't wait to leave. Mind you we all grew up completely f**ked up and my brother ended up being sectioned.
You could try the technique used by my step mother - we were locked out of all but the bathroom and our bedrooms. We were bought the cheapest of cheap foods (whils't they ate mainly m&s foods. Scream at at us every time we were in the house (on the occasions when she hadn't 'accidentally' locked us out of the house).
Worked for me (and my younger siblings) - we couldn't wait to leave. Mind you we all grew up completely f**ked up and my brother ended up being sectioned.
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In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
So, to not answer your question but hopefully share a useful perspective:
At the moment it sounds like they're in some kind of financial stasis / denial. Help them recognise this and plan to move on.
You could use what personal capital (edit: good will) and persuasive power you have to sort out short term issues of sharing a house with them, or you could use it to try and help them out of the financial hole I perceive them to be in, that leads to the house sharing situation.
I would ask them to identify a few suitable houses that meet their criteria to buy. Then sit down with them and work out the finances for them to save enough to get a deposit for a mortgage under their financial conditions. If I understand correctly then this is going to be a very long time. You then have to lead them to the realisation that either they need to (1) save far more aggressively or (2) significantly cut back their ambitions or most likely (3) a combination of both. Hopefully they will also understand that they need to form a medium term plan, and to commit to it. If you can get them to form and strongly commit to a financial plan, it would promote a greater self awareness of finances which may have various knock on effects for sharing the house in the short term.
Certainly you can help them draw up two different plans to save towards a purchase, one labeled "renting accommodation" and the other "living with TheDrunkenBaker". This may help foster some gratitude (!). Also you can subtly inform them of the full costs of running a house by helping them to draw up a budget for their house, as outgoings will affect the size of the mortgage they can get.
If it was me, I would make adherence to the agreed plan a condition of the significant boost I would be giving them with such incredibly cheap living arrangements. I'd explain as bluntly as I felt I could get away with that I'm subsidising them as it's the most I can do to help them buy a house, not because I want them hanging around without a plan, at my expense.
So, to not answer your question but hopefully share a useful perspective:
At the moment it sounds like they're in some kind of financial stasis / denial. Help them recognise this and plan to move on.
You could use what personal capital (edit: good will) and persuasive power you have to sort out short term issues of sharing a house with them, or you could use it to try and help them out of the financial hole I perceive them to be in, that leads to the house sharing situation.
I would ask them to identify a few suitable houses that meet their criteria to buy. Then sit down with them and work out the finances for them to save enough to get a deposit for a mortgage under their financial conditions. If I understand correctly then this is going to be a very long time. You then have to lead them to the realisation that either they need to (1) save far more aggressively or (2) significantly cut back their ambitions or most likely (3) a combination of both. Hopefully they will also understand that they need to form a medium term plan, and to commit to it. If you can get them to form and strongly commit to a financial plan, it would promote a greater self awareness of finances which may have various knock on effects for sharing the house in the short term.
Certainly you can help them draw up two different plans to save towards a purchase, one labeled "renting accommodation" and the other "living with TheDrunkenBaker". This may help foster some gratitude (!). Also you can subtly inform them of the full costs of running a house by helping them to draw up a budget for their house, as outgoings will affect the size of the mortgage they can get.
If it was me, I would make adherence to the agreed plan a condition of the significant boost I would be giving them with such incredibly cheap living arrangements. I'd explain as bluntly as I felt I could get away with that I'm subsidising them as it's the most I can do to help them buy a house, not because I want them hanging around without a plan, at my expense.
Post edited at 17:10
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
Taking the piss. No ambition and f*ck all apptitude. Change the locks.
D
Taking the piss. No ambition and f*ck all apptitude. Change the locks.
D
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In reply to Indy:
Yeah, I could have phrased that better. Correction: she's a lovely girl and we are proud of her.
> WTF!
Yeah, I could have phrased that better. Correction: she's a lovely girl and we are proud of her.
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In reply to Bob Hughes:
It's a mixture really. I guess if the rent was a bit higher we would feel less bothered about being skivys but on the other hand if they did more I would feel less inclined to want to up the board. This is all with the backdrop of wanting them to be independent and grow up a bit. Plus, having my house back is important. You can never completely be yourself.
It's a mixture really. I guess if the rent was a bit higher we would feel less bothered about being skivys but on the other hand if they did more I would feel less inclined to want to up the board. This is all with the backdrop of wanting them to be independent and grow up a bit. Plus, having my house back is important. You can never completely be yourself.
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
Sorry to say this, but you and your partner sound incredibly patient and understanding towards a couple of lazy gits who need to grow up and learn something about responsibility towards others they are sharing their house with.
They need a bloody good talking to, preferably by both of you to both of them over the kitchen table.
Otherwise on their bikes and learn about life in the real world.
Sorry to say this, but you and your partner sound incredibly patient and understanding towards a couple of lazy gits who need to grow up and learn something about responsibility towards others they are sharing their house with.
They need a bloody good talking to, preferably by both of you to both of them over the kitchen table.
Otherwise on their bikes and learn about life in the real world.
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In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
I think you or your wife need to sit down and have a serious conversation. I wouldn't be doing the cleaning up for them, nor would I be food shopping. If she can afford a holiday she can afford to buy her own food.
She sounds a bit spoilt to me. Maybe give them a firm date to move out by.
I think you or your wife need to sit down and have a serious conversation. I wouldn't be doing the cleaning up for them, nor would I be food shopping. If she can afford a holiday she can afford to buy her own food.
She sounds a bit spoilt to me. Maybe give them a firm date to move out by.
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In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
They're only doing it because you let them mate.
Stepdaughter here was really messy (I've got pictures of her bedroom that look like the council tip). No amount of nagging, pleading, bargaining or threats would make her get her arse in gear so we had a tense couple of years. She eventually moved out with her boyfriend and keeps her own place spotless now.
They're only doing it because you let them mate.
Stepdaughter here was really messy (I've got pictures of her bedroom that look like the council tip). No amount of nagging, pleading, bargaining or threats would make her get her arse in gear so we had a tense couple of years. She eventually moved out with her boyfriend and keeps her own place spotless now.
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
Putting the rent up isn't going to help with the finding housing situation.
It sounds like you and your wife need to have a chat with them about sharing chores and offer what help/encouragement you can to find them some suitable housing. Your call what form that takes.
jk
Putting the rent up isn't going to help with the finding housing situation.
It sounds like you and your wife need to have a chat with them about sharing chores and offer what help/encouragement you can to find them some suitable housing. Your call what form that takes.
jk
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
We all see this with greater frequency. I'd probably be a bit fed up with it all like you seem to be.
If they can spend their money on luxuries like holidays and cars then I too wouldn't be very pleased about subsidising their way of life. The problem now is can they afford to move out, even to rent? I think I'd be giving them an end date for moving out (even if it is 9 months time) and an incentivised rental increasing significantly if they do nothing or the same if they do loads of stuff round the house. Given you say its your step daughter then sounds like Mrs DB might need to lead on this. as regards what they do round the house I'd make this very specific to the point of putting pen to paper so there is absolutely no doubt. Best of luck these things are never easy
We all see this with greater frequency. I'd probably be a bit fed up with it all like you seem to be.
If they can spend their money on luxuries like holidays and cars then I too wouldn't be very pleased about subsidising their way of life. The problem now is can they afford to move out, even to rent? I think I'd be giving them an end date for moving out (even if it is 9 months time) and an incentivised rental increasing significantly if they do nothing or the same if they do loads of stuff round the house. Given you say its your step daughter then sounds like Mrs DB might need to lead on this. as regards what they do round the house I'd make this very specific to the point of putting pen to paper so there is absolutely no doubt. Best of luck these things are never easy
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
I found myself in a similar situation but the other way around, living with in-laws for 6 months. I was extremely grateful to their offer of help but it was stressful all round for everyone. You need to get them out, but my suspicion is that they would like to move out too.
We lived rent free, but paid for our share of food and bills, on the condition that we were saving what we would have spent on rent/mortgage to help us get out of the tricky situation we were in. If you think they will do that, that seems like a reasonable thing to do.
Otherwise, I would suggest you start charging commercial levels of rent on the basis that they can have it all back when they find somewhere.
Either way, you need to have an adult conversation about how you can help them and you need to avoid it becoming a petty argument about doing the dishes that would be better suited to a student house share.
I found myself in a similar situation but the other way around, living with in-laws for 6 months. I was extremely grateful to their offer of help but it was stressful all round for everyone. You need to get them out, but my suspicion is that they would like to move out too.
We lived rent free, but paid for our share of food and bills, on the condition that we were saving what we would have spent on rent/mortgage to help us get out of the tricky situation we were in. If you think they will do that, that seems like a reasonable thing to do.
Otherwise, I would suggest you start charging commercial levels of rent on the basis that they can have it all back when they find somewhere.
Either way, you need to have an adult conversation about how you can help them and you need to avoid it becoming a petty argument about doing the dishes that would be better suited to a student house share.
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In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
Wintertree makes some good suggestions.
20 years old is pretty young to be moving out by all standards nowadays. I think the average has now bumped up to about 30!
So she (and maybe you) need a 10year plan. How about raising the rent to a realistic level but using it as an incentive to save. So they pay you £100 a week and you save £80 of it for them.
In 5 years time they'll have over £20k, you won't have lost much and things will be moving on.
I suggest the resentment is just a mixture of all of the above but mainly because you can't see an end to it.
Whatever, you need to talk to them.
Wintertree makes some good suggestions.
20 years old is pretty young to be moving out by all standards nowadays. I think the average has now bumped up to about 30!
So she (and maybe you) need a 10year plan. How about raising the rent to a realistic level but using it as an incentive to save. So they pay you £100 a week and you save £80 of it for them.
In 5 years time they'll have over £20k, you won't have lost much and things will be moving on.
I suggest the resentment is just a mixture of all of the above but mainly because you can't see an end to it.
Whatever, you need to talk to them.
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
I'm 23 and I live with my dad. I pay £300 a month , which has reached this figure by raising slightly every time I got a pay rise. I also buy my own food, and do my own cleaning, clothes washing and keep the house tidy. This is still really cheap compared to the the real world, plus it helps my dad, so I don’t mind. Once I move in with my girlfriend, it will be less of a shock.
Your step daughter is taking the piss majorly, but I think that might be because she doesn’t know she is taking the piss. It’s not being harsh to raise their rent, or to ask them to do a lot more housework – its simply preparing them for their own place!
I'm 23 and I live with my dad. I pay £300 a month , which has reached this figure by raising slightly every time I got a pay rise. I also buy my own food, and do my own cleaning, clothes washing and keep the house tidy. This is still really cheap compared to the the real world, plus it helps my dad, so I don’t mind. Once I move in with my girlfriend, it will be less of a shock.
Your step daughter is taking the piss majorly, but I think that might be because she doesn’t know she is taking the piss. It’s not being harsh to raise their rent, or to ask them to do a lot more housework – its simply preparing them for their own place!
7
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
That's brilliant! We have a 5 year old and a 2 year old. Last night, myself and my wife made a "House rules" poster and will be putting into effect a behaviour reward system from tonight. It is good to see things won't be changing over the next 15 years!
Good luck!
That's brilliant! We have a 5 year old and a 2 year old. Last night, myself and my wife made a "House rules" poster and will be putting into effect a behaviour reward system from tonight. It is good to see things won't be changing over the next 15 years!
Good luck!
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
Thanks for all your replies and I agree with most of them and its made me think that Im not selfish, grumpy or abnormal to be feeling this way. I should state clearly that they arent bums, just that they dont tidy their room to my standards and dont help clean the communal areas which they use. I also have to recognise that they work hard.
They dont impede on our life insofar as they are not always under our feet so we get some 'private' time watching telly, eating etc but helping with the dog, shower, kitchen and of course keeping my spare room clean are essential.
It doesnt help that I am step dad and the dynamics are slightly different and that we have her boyfriend with us too. I wonder what it would be like with just her and perhaps her boyfriend coming from time to time. They certainly cant afford a house deposit so rent would be the only option and even then, there has been talk of them both moving to Cardiff eventually as there is more to do than Newark, which I wholly agree with.
There also a matter of my wife. We have two other girls and so she likes to, well, walk around the house in various states of undress which I think is healthy. Our middle daughter is too old for me to do that but my wife still can but this is a thing of the past now.
Wintertree does make some sense but having them here for 5 years is out of the question. I would like my home back before Xmas.
I moved out at 19 yet my brother waited until he was almost 30.
Thanks for all your replies and I agree with most of them and its made me think that Im not selfish, grumpy or abnormal to be feeling this way. I should state clearly that they arent bums, just that they dont tidy their room to my standards and dont help clean the communal areas which they use. I also have to recognise that they work hard.
They dont impede on our life insofar as they are not always under our feet so we get some 'private' time watching telly, eating etc but helping with the dog, shower, kitchen and of course keeping my spare room clean are essential.
It doesnt help that I am step dad and the dynamics are slightly different and that we have her boyfriend with us too. I wonder what it would be like with just her and perhaps her boyfriend coming from time to time. They certainly cant afford a house deposit so rent would be the only option and even then, there has been talk of them both moving to Cardiff eventually as there is more to do than Newark, which I wholly agree with.
There also a matter of my wife. We have two other girls and so she likes to, well, walk around the house in various states of undress which I think is healthy. Our middle daughter is too old for me to do that but my wife still can but this is a thing of the past now.
Wintertree does make some sense but having them here for 5 years is out of the question. I would like my home back before Xmas.
I moved out at 19 yet my brother waited until he was almost 30.
1
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
All 4 of you need a big sit down chat with pen, paper and calculator. You need to know from them what they have done about finding somewhere to live - you need to get them to demonstrate that they understand how much moving out will cost them and how they're going to afford it. As suggested earlier, up their rent to whatever a commercial rent / mortgage would cost and save most of it for them to give back. I think they simply haven't realised the sacrifices they'll need to make - like your SD I bought cars that were unnecessarily expensive - I was still able to save up, but if I'd put the £350 a month the car was costing towards saving up for a deposit I'd have bought my flat for £100k instead of £140k!
The lack of domesticity thing is by the by - the important thing here is the finances.
All 4 of you need a big sit down chat with pen, paper and calculator. You need to know from them what they have done about finding somewhere to live - you need to get them to demonstrate that they understand how much moving out will cost them and how they're going to afford it. As suggested earlier, up their rent to whatever a commercial rent / mortgage would cost and save most of it for them to give back. I think they simply haven't realised the sacrifices they'll need to make - like your SD I bought cars that were unnecessarily expensive - I was still able to save up, but if I'd put the £350 a month the car was costing towards saving up for a deposit I'd have bought my flat for £100k instead of £140k!
The lack of domesticity thing is by the by - the important thing here is the finances.
Post edited at 13:12
4
In reply to Toerag:
It amazes me how many older adults seem to not understand this. I'd find it surprising if many 20year olds understand it.
There's a guy in my office who is mid 30s who has had to rent a flat now that he is married with a child. He has spent 15years of salary completely, plus more, no savings, only debts. And he is still spending more than he earns each month.
It amazes me how many older adults seem to not understand this. I'd find it surprising if many 20year olds understand it.
There's a guy in my office who is mid 30s who has had to rent a flat now that he is married with a child. He has spent 15years of salary completely, plus more, no savings, only debts. And he is still spending more than he earns each month.
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
I'm sure if you both spent more time in states of undress a plan to move out would quickly be formed.
I'm sure if you both spent more time in states of undress a plan to move out would quickly be formed.
11
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
The having to get dressed thing is annoying. My step daughter isn't particularly comfortable with me (female) wandering round the house in underwear. As she is step then I try to respect this but it is a hassle to have to get dressed all the time when I grew up in quite a free and easy household.
The having to get dressed thing is annoying. My step daughter isn't particularly comfortable with me (female) wandering round the house in underwear. As she is step then I try to respect this but it is a hassle to have to get dressed all the time when I grew up in quite a free and easy household.
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
Sort of home turf, this.
We had an empty nest for all of 7 months before the first one came back. Two years later the second one came back, and a year after that the third one came back (and then his girlfriend from Florida).
The first one (a foster son - not really, but it's complicated) gets charged rent at a near commercial rate which went into a savings account - he now has enough for his share of the deposit on the house with his girlfriend. He regularly had his rights read to him and is now properly domesticated (24 years old). We threw him out for three months as a necessary behaviour modifier, which worked and a much chastened young man returned.
The second, our daughter, keeps her room as a tip, but is mostly diligent around the house, cooks regularly etc. needs to be pushed in the right direction but is getting there. She's not paying rent because she understands how savings work.
The third, the eldest, has gone native as a long course student and an intern in the States. He is full of promises but nothing yet (he moved back in in early August). Rent position yet to be determined, but food bills to be paid. He's as domesticated as the horses he looks after as a vet. His girlfriend has taken the place of the cleaner and is diligent.
In our experience, point out the fact regularly that you are not there to look after them. As adults, they are expected to contribute substantially in one way or another as their means dictate. Point out that the standards are the same for everyone, and if they don't like them or feel able to sustain them, then they need to look for somewhere else, but in the meantime, the standards and their contribution will be maintained.
We have instituted a board so that we all know who's in and who's out each evening. If you're not on the board you don't get fed - more about expectation management and consideration than anything else. First one in starts cooking - going upstairs and hiding or flopping on the sofa in front of the Big Bang Theory is not acceptable.
Showers all now have squeegees in them and no shower will be left unsqueegeed. We are now adopting a tone of absolute expectation - covers the same problem as yours with bins (the food bin in particular being seemingly my job by default). No dumping, the dish washer will be switched on before it's stinking, cleaning up generally. It sounds a bit mean, but we've been running around after them for twenty years. Now they can deal with the bulging laundry basket (14 shirts last weekend). In our view, it's all part of growing up - if they can't cope with that then they'll not cope with the rest of the stuff life throws at them - best get into good habits.
Sort of home turf, this.
We had an empty nest for all of 7 months before the first one came back. Two years later the second one came back, and a year after that the third one came back (and then his girlfriend from Florida).
The first one (a foster son - not really, but it's complicated) gets charged rent at a near commercial rate which went into a savings account - he now has enough for his share of the deposit on the house with his girlfriend. He regularly had his rights read to him and is now properly domesticated (24 years old). We threw him out for three months as a necessary behaviour modifier, which worked and a much chastened young man returned.
The second, our daughter, keeps her room as a tip, but is mostly diligent around the house, cooks regularly etc. needs to be pushed in the right direction but is getting there. She's not paying rent because she understands how savings work.
The third, the eldest, has gone native as a long course student and an intern in the States. He is full of promises but nothing yet (he moved back in in early August). Rent position yet to be determined, but food bills to be paid. He's as domesticated as the horses he looks after as a vet. His girlfriend has taken the place of the cleaner and is diligent.
In our experience, point out the fact regularly that you are not there to look after them. As adults, they are expected to contribute substantially in one way or another as their means dictate. Point out that the standards are the same for everyone, and if they don't like them or feel able to sustain them, then they need to look for somewhere else, but in the meantime, the standards and their contribution will be maintained.
We have instituted a board so that we all know who's in and who's out each evening. If you're not on the board you don't get fed - more about expectation management and consideration than anything else. First one in starts cooking - going upstairs and hiding or flopping on the sofa in front of the Big Bang Theory is not acceptable.
Showers all now have squeegees in them and no shower will be left unsqueegeed. We are now adopting a tone of absolute expectation - covers the same problem as yours with bins (the food bin in particular being seemingly my job by default). No dumping, the dish washer will be switched on before it's stinking, cleaning up generally. It sounds a bit mean, but we've been running around after them for twenty years. Now they can deal with the bulging laundry basket (14 shirts last weekend). In our view, it's all part of growing up - if they can't cope with that then they'll not cope with the rest of the stuff life throws at them - best get into good habits.
8
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
As my in-laws remind me, in the 60's, it was very common for newly weds to live a couple of years with the parents whilst they saved up for the deposit on the house.So its a question of having to do what people used to do a few years ago.
Its quite common these days, so just talk it through and sort out a plan with them.
As my in-laws remind me, in the 60's, it was very common for newly weds to live a couple of years with the parents whilst they saved up for the deposit on the house.So its a question of having to do what people used to do a few years ago.
Its quite common these days, so just talk it through and sort out a plan with them.
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
Given how hard things can be at the moment, I'm liking the above response from neilh, but (to me) the expensive car and the holiday in Mexico seem to show a certain lack of awareness of the situation.
I think you need to sit them down and have a talk, about how you decided to house them on the understanding they were responsible adults like you and your partner are, and about how the holiday in Mexico and the car to finance (which you think is too expensive) are things which have taken money away from them getting onto their own two feet, which is especially 'concerning' when they pay the amount they do towards rent, while eating the amount of food they do and using electricity, and mention that while they're still very welcome you'd like them to actually notice and empty the bin while they're living with you, and contribute towards keeping the house clean and running well in relation to chores and that kind of thing.
If you care as much as you obviously do, you'll hopefully likely be able to balance reminding them to do their fair share and of the humble beginnings you started out from (to nudge their consciences about being spend thrifts) with keeping the atmosphere nice in the home.
Keeping them reminded/aware of those things could be enough to make them want their own space without feeling like you're getting at them, it's the kind of thing which would have worked on my older brother.
Given how hard things can be at the moment, I'm liking the above response from neilh, but (to me) the expensive car and the holiday in Mexico seem to show a certain lack of awareness of the situation.
I think you need to sit them down and have a talk, about how you decided to house them on the understanding they were responsible adults like you and your partner are, and about how the holiday in Mexico and the car to finance (which you think is too expensive) are things which have taken money away from them getting onto their own two feet, which is especially 'concerning' when they pay the amount they do towards rent, while eating the amount of food they do and using electricity, and mention that while they're still very welcome you'd like them to actually notice and empty the bin while they're living with you, and contribute towards keeping the house clean and running well in relation to chores and that kind of thing.
If you care as much as you obviously do, you'll hopefully likely be able to balance reminding them to do their fair share and of the humble beginnings you started out from (to nudge their consciences about being spend thrifts) with keeping the atmosphere nice in the home.
Keeping them reminded/aware of those things could be enough to make them want their own space without feeling like you're getting at them, it's the kind of thing which would have worked on my older brother.
Post edited at 20:19
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
Buy a cheapo caravan,bang it on your drive,let them live in their own filth. Problem solved
Buy a cheapo caravan,bang it on your drive,let them live in their own filth. Problem solved
8
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
Sorry slightly off topic but I need to share this gem I heard the other day on the radio. An initiate joins some sort of monastic order and on day one mother superior says "If you were looking for a life of martyrdom and self-sacrifice you should have stayed at home to be a wife and mother".
I've got a four year old and a two year old, it's nice to know the *joy* will continue for many decades hence!
Sorry slightly off topic but I need to share this gem I heard the other day on the radio. An initiate joins some sort of monastic order and on day one mother superior says "If you were looking for a life of martyrdom and self-sacrifice you should have stayed at home to be a wife and mother".
I've got a four year old and a two year old, it's nice to know the *joy* will continue for many decades hence!
1
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
The "can't afford a house they want" annoys the hell out of me.
I get told regularly by middle aged mates that we are very lucky to own our own house (3 bed semi on a rough Estate) and that they can't afford to.
What they don't take in to account was the 10 years living in a rebuilding a small back to back terrace house, the lack of holiday and lifestyle of going out pubbing and clubbing whilst we laid down our foundations.
Basically most of them pissed everything away for the last 20 years and regret it now, our 20s were enjoyed, 30s were a struggle sinking every penny in to the first house, now we are in our 40 living in a below average house (that we can easily afford on 1 wage), we rent out the terrace and enjoy holidays and weekend's away.
The culture today though seems to be one of entitlement, people want to drop directly in to he end game without the hard work and sacrifice needed to get there.
The "can't afford a house they want" annoys the hell out of me.
I get told regularly by middle aged mates that we are very lucky to own our own house (3 bed semi on a rough Estate) and that they can't afford to.
What they don't take in to account was the 10 years living in a rebuilding a small back to back terrace house, the lack of holiday and lifestyle of going out pubbing and clubbing whilst we laid down our foundations.
Basically most of them pissed everything away for the last 20 years and regret it now, our 20s were enjoyed, 30s were a struggle sinking every penny in to the first house, now we are in our 40 living in a below average house (that we can easily afford on 1 wage), we rent out the terrace and enjoy holidays and weekend's away.
The culture today though seems to be one of entitlement, people want to drop directly in to he end game without the hard work and sacrifice needed to get there.
8
In reply to Dax H:
We were only laughing at our 19 year old apprentice when talking about housing as he wants to get a house. So what does he want " 3 bedrooms, garage and a garden with nice furnishings". Hoots of laughter and then tales of no furniture and 2 up 2 down terraces in not good areas followed from the rest of us. " My girlfriend would never stand for that" comes his reply." wake up and smell the coffee" is what he gets." why not share a house with others. " Oh I could never do that".Minimum a couple of years saving for a deposit, no holidays etc etc. At this point he decides to keep quiet, as by now the message may slowly be sinking in.
We were only laughing at our 19 year old apprentice when talking about housing as he wants to get a house. So what does he want " 3 bedrooms, garage and a garden with nice furnishings". Hoots of laughter and then tales of no furniture and 2 up 2 down terraces in not good areas followed from the rest of us. " My girlfriend would never stand for that" comes his reply." wake up and smell the coffee" is what he gets." why not share a house with others. " Oh I could never do that".Minimum a couple of years saving for a deposit, no holidays etc etc. At this point he decides to keep quiet, as by now the message may slowly be sinking in.
5
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
There's a lot of great suggestions further upthread.
One thing I've not seen suggested is showing them your budget to run the house.
Show them a spreadsheet showing food, utilities, mortgage, licenses, insurances, everything you can think of.
Then divide that number by four, and tell them that's what they'd be paying if you weren't doing them a massive favour.
Can you afford to give them all their rent back for a deposit somewhere?
There's a lot of great suggestions further upthread.
One thing I've not seen suggested is showing them your budget to run the house.
Show them a spreadsheet showing food, utilities, mortgage, licenses, insurances, everything you can think of.
Then divide that number by four, and tell them that's what they'd be paying if you weren't doing them a massive favour.
Can you afford to give them all their rent back for a deposit somewhere?
3
In reply to KTC:
I moved out at 16, but thats how my parents did it for one of my sisters that had to move back in when she was older.
Total costs (excluding mortgage as you would be buying anyway) divided by total occupants (inc kids) times two for them.
In the end she actually paid more as she knew what it cost on the open market as she had been there & done that.
> One thing I've not seen suggested is showing them your budget to run the house.
> Show them a spreadsheet showing food, utilities, mortgage, licenses, insurances, everything you can think of.
> Then divide that number by four, and tell them that's what they'd be paying if you weren't doing them a massive favour.
I moved out at 16, but thats how my parents did it for one of my sisters that had to move back in when she was older.
Total costs (excluding mortgage as you would be buying anyway) divided by total occupants (inc kids) times two for them.
In the end she actually paid more as she knew what it cost on the open market as she had been there & done that.
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